03-30-18 02:48 PM
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  1. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    LOL! so jump for android
    I did first the PRIV and then both DTEK. I'm getting ready for the KEYone with AT&T and the Motion when it hopefully is offered in the USA.

    My Passport was great back in the day, however, I can't use it to run my business' efficiently or effectively. It's funny, the Passport went from being a tool to being a toy, from the definition of usefulness.
    Rodrigo Lourenco likes this.
    11-10-17 08:39 AM
  2. stlabrat's Avatar
    "Now other issues, if you some how get everyone hired (if and it's a big if) while competing with all the other companies trying to hire software engineers in Canada (lots of competition to hire in Canada because of the R&D credits)."
    Waterloo is unique, although there are many software company around, mobile OS might not be the specialty... plus (I give you a bonus hint) some of interviewer just turn people off. It could be lost in translation, culture differences, age - you need to be young to be cool (might due to the in-security of the chaps conducting interview)... Even students search for intern jobs favor non-local HR chaps (not just they pay more). words gets around fast... (banking, insurance Co or University, etc. etc. can also pay bills, but allow your freedom to take side jobs, why not. people moved on.. I heard that before... I am not software, but may have a bit longer ears than the others... by the way, those IQ test some times turn people off too, consider Mr. Bush got 120).
    11-10-17 08:44 AM
  3. app_Developer's Avatar
    Whoa, you have made my week! I had no idea Ektachrome was coming back. I'll take that.

    But K25, oh, that was my film. That is way more interesting to me than vintage operating systems.
    11-10-17 08:45 AM
  4. app_Developer's Avatar
    Please let me know how many system level software engineers I can hire in Waterloo for under $70k. I will take a couple of dozen right away. .
    If you told me there were proper developers available only 1,000 miles away from me for $70k, I would hire many myself.

    I don't buy it. And again, Google has an office right there. What kind of stupid developer would work for $70k instead of going to Google?
    11-10-17 08:48 AM
  5. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    I did first the PRIV and then both DTEK. I'm getting ready for the KEYone with AT&T and the Motion when it hopefully is offered in the USA.

    My Passport was great back in the day, however, I can't use it to run my business' efficiently or effectively. It's funny, the Passport went from being a tool to being a toy, from the definition of usefulness.
    This is how tech becomes obsolete. As soon as it doesn't make rational sense to use it, people migrate to the next best alternative.

    I'm grateful to BlackBerry for supporting BB10 as well as they have for almost five years. During that time, Android and iOS have improved dramatically. I found both to be unusable for my purposes in 2014-15. Now, Android is a viable choice, at least.

    I'm still very happy and productive on BB10, but the end, when it comes, will be just as quick. The day it's no longer the best tool for getting my work done, it will become either a "toy" or just "trash."

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    11-10-17 08:48 AM
  6. butterbean1983's Avatar
    Anyone who would pay to subscribe (no OS has ever been subscription based) to a resurrected OS that failed commercially the first time around is just throwing good money after bad and a fool. Also, it doesn't matter how much you speculate about how this could be done, you have to convince BlackBerry to do one of four things with BB10: either release it as open source, sell it, license it or devote their own resources to it. If there were enough users to come up with the capital to buy or license it, then do it. I can tell you there's already been threads about it here and no one wants to do that. I will not contribute a dime to BB10. I won't even pay for apps to replace missing native apps.
    11-10-17 10:10 AM
  7. elfabio80's Avatar
    [QUOTE=conite;13067710]

    There are only about a million and a half users left, going down to about half a million by next summer. What kind of future support are you expecting when there hasn't been any in ages?

    Interesting info!! Source please?


    Posted via CB10
    11-10-17 12:20 PM
  8. conite's Avatar
    [

    Interesting info!! Source please?

    Posted via CB10
    Educated guess based on peak BB10 users in July of 2015 of 10 million (f/s).

    Average person keeps a device for 22 months, so half the number to 5 million. BB10 bleed rate would be far more than the average due to lack of support, apps, or new devices - so half again to 2.5 million.

    How many of those are actually primary, unique, users - as I own 7 or 8 BB10 devices myself? I think you can easily take off another million - because many of the remaining die-hards have more than one device.

    Nevertheless, another whole year of burn, would easily get you down to 500,000 by next summer.
    11-10-17 12:28 PM
  9. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    I count as 10 of those unique BB10 users and I'm not interested.
    Really? Only 10 bb10 users who would prefer not to experience the California style personal data groping by the stars? You are way underestimating the market here. ....and perhaps some s/w engineers excited by the idea of forging ahead with a more non-groping like device?
    Many contracts in the field are often 6months or a year....so tell me about the risk? Cost of living (rent, home ownership, being near aging relatives, family, friends are also all factors in the decision making process of software and engineering people, not always focused on the kind of like "Artificial Reality Environments of Politially Correct " big Corp of Google or Apple (Its a Wonderful Life - Jimmy Stewart....its a wonderful life).

    ...and there is always this factor as well, just sayin...(I preferred Frankin when he wore the satellite dish on his head though)...
    https://www.wired.com/story/al-frank...been-dreading/
    11-10-17 12:45 PM
  10. bobshine's Avatar
    1)Product Marketing....notify existing users by push....bb10 is not dead (device/BBM ) especially corp/gov , a you pay for life-extension update is coming within 3-6months, new product within 18months. Other ...yes identify what improvements are asap.
    2)Training to code bb10? Really? is C/C++ now a rare commodity? 3months to train bb10 internals/architecture/design methodology/standards max. Then some slow change progressing depending on experience. How many of those bb10 guys are retired or semi, I wonder....good mentorship program there if there are any kicking about. Return some key architects to the fold (perhaps profit-share)
    3)1st major update 8-12months out (perhaps continual minor patches before that every 30/60 days or after initial 5month period, subscription based of course).
    4)64bit new bb10-64 mid-level device 12-18months out....annual or 18 month rollout thereafter if moderately successful.
    5)spin-off the bb10 as a separate division/startup - wholly owned.
    6)Stay with android license as well - there's a niche for that (separate team), for those who care a whit about privacy.
    7)Brand recognition is still brand recognition.
    8) tic-toc, tic-toc

    You forgot the most important part: BB is a public company listed in the NY and TO stock exchange. Their investors has an expected return... and you don’t seem to understand the concept or distinction between profit and economic profit.

    Profit is making 1$ more than the expenses. So if you have 25 millions in expenses, if you make 25,000,001$, then you’re making a profit.

    But how many investors would invest 25 millions and be happy to make only a dollar? With all the risk that comes with such investment?

    I don’t know the numbers but for a venture like this, the economic profit is probably around 30 or 40% (banks are at 20%).

    So take that in perspective. Or maybe ask yourself this

    if you have 25,000,000, would your first investment be BB10? Or would you buy alphabet or apple?
    11-10-17 12:54 PM
  11. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    You forgot the most important part: BB is a public company listed in the NY and TO stock exchange. Their investors has an expected return... and you don’t seem to understand the concept or distinction between profit and economic profit.

    Profit is making 1$ more than the expenses. So if you have 25 millions in expenses, if you make 25,000,001$, then you’re making a profit.

    But how many investors would invest 25 millions and be happy to make only a dollar? With all the risk that comes with such investment?

    I don’t know the numbers but for a venture like this, the economic profit is probably around 30 or 40% (banks are at 20%).

    So take that in perspective. Or maybe ask yourself this

    if you have 25,000,000, would your first investment be BB10? Or would you buy alphabet or apple?
    Just one future scenario.....
    If my car in the future is electric....why the hell would I want an engine compartment computer, when my smartphone app could be its core....and its anti-theft device....because it would be a brick when the phone wasn't attached with an encrypted handshake to a much smaller qnx core in the car ....thinking of the future ROI ....how much is Amazon raking in by now?
    BB10 or whatever with QNX should stay in the business for that eventual possible convergence....and QNX is the gold in that mine.
    Since you would want the features of QNX on the phone side of that equation as well.
    And I wonder if the automakers might like the outsourcing of that hardware themselves.
    11-10-17 01:08 PM
  12. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    Just one future scenario.....
    If my car in the future is electric....why the hell would I want an engine compartment computer, when my smartphone app could be its core....and its anti-theft device....because it would be a brick when the phone wasn't attached with an encrypted handshake to a much smaller qnx core in the car ....thinking of the future ROI ....how much is Amazon raking in by now?
    BB10 or whatever with QNX should stay in the business for that eventual possible convergence....and QNX is the gold in that mine.
    Since you would want the features of QNX on the phone side of that equation as well.
    And I wonder if the automakers might like the outsourcing of that hardware themselves.
    ....and how much do some of those lost keyfobs cost right now? 'bout half the cost of a smartphone to replace.
    11-10-17 01:11 PM
  13. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    ....and how much do some of those lost keyfobs cost right now? 'bout half the cost of a smartphone to replace.
    ....and since the phone would probably plug-in to the console.....less texting and driving accidents would happen with millenials now wouldn't there be? Insurance companies would love BB if they made this a reality.
    11-10-17 01:15 PM
  14. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    Entrepeneurs generally don't invest in a big established company. (that would make them passive)...fund managers maybe ...not entrepreneurs who want to see growth by their own hands and others.
    11-10-17 01:23 PM
  15. markmall's Avatar
    1)Product Marketing....notify existing users by push....bb10 is not dead (device/BBM ) especially corp/gov , a you pay for life-extension update is coming within 3-6months, new product within 18months. Other ...yes identify what improvements are asap.
    2)Training to code bb10? Really? is C/C++ now a rare commodity? 3months to train bb10 internals/architecture/design methodology/standards max. Then some slow change progressing depending on experience. How many of those bb10 guys are retired or semi, I wonder....good mentorship program there if there are any kicking about. Return some key architects to the fold (perhaps profit-share)
    3)1st major update 8-12months out (perhaps continual minor patches before that every 30/60 days or after initial 5month period, subscription based of course).
    4)64bit new bb10-64 mid-level device 12-18months out....annual or 18 month rollout thereafter if moderately successful.
    5)spin-off the bb10 as a separate division/startup - wholly owned.
    6)Stay with android license as well - there's a niche for that (separate team), for those who care a whit about privacy.
    7)Brand recognition is still brand recognition.
    8) tic-toc, tic-toc

    These are some creative ideas. How many creative ideas has Chen and company come up with? I'm excluding selling everything not bolted down and advertising only to Crackberry users.

    Posted via CB10
    i_plod_an_dr_void likes this.
    11-10-17 01:38 PM
  16. elfabio80's Avatar
    Educated guess based on peak BB10 users in July of 2015 of 10 million (f/s).

    Average person keeps a device for 22 months, so half the number to 5 million. BB10 bleed rate would be far more than the average due to lack of support, apps, or new devices - so half again to 2.5 million.

    How many of those are actually primary, unique, users - as I own 7 or 8 BB10 devices myself? I think you can easily take off another million - because many of the remaining die-hards have more than one device.

    Nevertheless, another whole year of burn, would easily get you down to 500,000 by next summer.
    This is a personal estimation. Your personal estimation. Without official data its value is =0. This means misinformation or fake news. I am far from being a fanboy (bb10 vs Android), but spreading fake news and assume them as true is not serious... there may be only 10 bb10 users in the world...who cares! But here you are spreading fake news. Anyway, you do your job here (although called volunteering), but bringing your assumption (without source) to such level, shows how this amazing community is going down day by day.... i miss the good old CB...

    Posted via CB10
    i_plod_an_dr_void likes this.
    11-10-17 01:42 PM
  17. conite's Avatar
    This is a personal estimation. Your personal estimation. Without official data its value is =0. This means misinformation or fake news. I am far from being a fanboy (bb10 vs Android), but spreading fake news and assume them as true is not serious... there may be only 10 bb10 users in the world...who cares! But here you are spreading fake news. Anyway, you do your job here (although called volunteering), but bringing your assumption (without source) to such level, shows how this amazing community is going down day by day.... i miss the good old CB...

    Posted via CB10
    Of course it includes assumptions, but peak number and average burn rate are published figures.

    Even if I'm off by a whole 100% and the actual number for next summer is a full million, what difference does it make? It's completely immaterial to the discussion. Either figure makes any discussion regarding the marketability of BB10 total nonsense - and that's the essence of the conversation in this thread.

    I was clear in my original post that it was an estimate. I used "about" more than once.
    Last edited by conite; 11-10-17 at 02:42 PM.
    11-10-17 01:54 PM
  18. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    This is a personal estimation. Your personal estimation. Without official data its value is =0. This means misinformation or fake news. I am far from being a fanboy (bb10 vs Android), but spreading fake news and assume them as true is not serious... there may be only 10 bb10 users in the world...who cares! But here you are spreading fake news. Anyway, you do your job here (although called volunteering), but bringing your assumption (without source) to such level, shows how this amazing community is going down day by day.... i miss the good old CB...

    Posted via CB10
    A person offering a reasoned opinion and illustrating their thinking is neither "fake" nor "news." It's a contribution to a rational discussion.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    StephanieMaks likes this.
    11-10-17 02:51 PM
  19. bobshine's Avatar
    Just one future scenario.....
    If my car in the future is electric....why the hell would I want an engine compartment computer, when my smartphone app could be its core....and its anti-theft device....because it would be a brick when the phone wasn't attached with an encrypted handshake to a much smaller qnx core in the car ....thinking of the future ROI ....how much is Amazon raking in by now?
    BB10 or whatever with QNX should stay in the business for that eventual possible convergence....and QNX is the gold in that mine.
    Since you would want the features of QNX on the phone side of that equation as well.
    And I wonder if the automakers might like the outsourcing of that hardware themselves.
    They should keep BB10 around just in case???

    Yeah well of course... let’s get back to my example.... it needs to be economically profitable. They would keep BB10 around if your expected convergence has a chance to happen and provides an interesting expected return.

    So if it has 50% chance of happening and it’s return is 10%... good luck... no one will put money into something like that for an expected return of only 5%, since you can get much safer investment for that return
    11-10-17 04:05 PM
  20. elfabio80's Avatar
    A person offering a reasoned opinion and illustrating their thinking is neither "fake" nor "news." It's a contribution to a rational discussion.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    Read carefully all the discussion. Then read again. And again.

    Posted via CB10
    11-10-17 04:22 PM
  21. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    This discussion was ridiculous the first time. It won't get better with rereading!

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    11-10-17 04:43 PM
  22. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    This is a personal estimation. Your personal estimation. Without official data its value is =0. This means misinformation or fake news. I am far from being a fanboy (bb10 vs Android), but spreading fake news and assume them as true is not serious... there may be only 10 bb10 users in the world...who cares! But here you are spreading fake news. Anyway, you do your job here (although called volunteering), but bringing your assumption (without source) to such level, shows how this amazing community is going down day by day.... i miss the good old CB...

    Posted via CB10
    You miss the CB where everyone lived in the BB10 Utopian dream. This is reality. BB/BBMo survived/surviving and BBOS/BB10 dead/dying. The funny part is that I think BBOS is still generating more revenue than BB10 ever did. BBOS generated profit and BB10 never did. I found BBOS more productive than BB10 in the beginning and it only equaled BBOS at its height in productivity.

    Unfortunately, like flash powder, BB10 advantages, quickly flamed out and so will its remaining user base. With Android/IOS evolution and BB10 abandonment, the user base is leaving at ever increasing rate through natural attrition. Like the final remnants in your bathtub circling the drain. There's nothing plugging the drain....
    11-10-17 05:02 PM
  23. elfabio80's Avatar
    You miss the CB where everyone lived in the BB10 Utopian dream. This is reality. BB/BBMo survived/surviving and BBOS/BB10 dead/dying. The funny part is that I think BBOS is still generating more revenue than BB10 ever did. BBOS generated profit and BB10 never did. I found BBOS more productive than BB10 in the beginning and it only equaled BBOS at its height in productivity.

    Unfortunately, like flash powder, BB10 advantages, quickly flamed out and so will its remaining user base. With Android/IOS evolution and BB10 abandonment, the user base is leaving at ever increasing rate through natural attrition. Like the final remnants in your bathtub circling the drain. There's nothing plugging the drain....
    No, I am missing the CB where people were commenting without a ridicolous fanatism (although I recognize Conite brings here a lot of really technical support). The fact that you bring this debate again to the level bb10 utopia shows how this website is getting day by day ridicolous, like ridicolous are those still expecting bb11....
    I respect your comment, but it seems like trolling....


    Posted via CB10
    11-10-17 05:54 PM
  24. conite's Avatar
    No, I am missing the CB where people were commenting without a ridicolous fanatism (although I recognize Conite brings here a lot of really technical support). The fact that you bring this debate again to the level bb10 utopia shows how this website is getting day by day ridicolous, like ridicolous are those still expecting bb11....
    I respect your comment, but it seems like trolling....


    Posted via CB10
    I think you may be missing the context of the threads where most of the alleged anti-BB10 posts are written.

    I, personally, only take issue and speak negatively when discussing the BUSINESS case for BB10. I would never denigrate someone for using what they feel works for them best.

    I don't like to burst peoples' bubbles, but I feel it's my duty as a long-time community member to try and manage expectations. There are many more readers than posters, so I don't feel comfortable leaving them with a false impression regarding the possibility of BB10 even surviving - let alone growing.

    One can slice it as many ways as they wish, but BlackBerry has left BB10 behind and has locked up and blown up the building.

    But we could have a hundred threads titled "why I love BB10" , or "help me with my BB10 device" , and I would never have a bad thing to say.
    Troy Tiscareno likes this.
    11-10-17 06:25 PM
  25. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    No, I am missing the CB where people were commenting without a ridicolous fanatism (although I recognize Conite brings here a lot of really technical support). The fact that you bring this debate again to the level bb10 utopia shows how this website is getting day by day ridicolous, like ridicolous are those still expecting bb11....
    I respect your comment, but it seems like trolling....


    Posted via CB10
    Saying it's trolling because I (and others) disagree with you is exactly my point. It's like embracing tolerance, but only if agreeing with you or then it's ok to be intolerant from your perspective.

    CrackBerry and BlackBerry as companies have moved on from CB10 and BB10. Successful products release numbers and unsuccessful products avoid the conversation so we can only estimate and speculate. If you disagree, then come up with numbers and then explain your reasoning....
    11-10-17 06:27 PM
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