02-09-18 07:21 PM
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  1. bobshine's Avatar
    Please don't compare the quality build of an iPhone to a blackberry, especially in the battery department.
    You can say all you want about apple devices and how some of them are ugly... But the quality built of Apple devices are far far superior than anything out their. Their attention to details is next to none and Apple don’t tolerate components failures. They are known to be very very strict with suppliers.

    Apple also uses smaller batteries than any manufacturers out there cause they are able to optimize their hardware with software.

    And I would invite you to have a look at a iPhone X tear down... you’ll be impressed by the internals and all the innovation in there (stacked logic board, L shaped battery, depth of field cameras...)

    I know I sound like a Apple fanboy but I hate when people talk about something that they have no idea about
    11-09-17 06:22 PM
  2. Fernando Martin's Avatar
    You can say all you want about apple devices and how some of them are ugly... But the quality built of Apple devices are far far superior than anything out their. Their attention to details is next to none and Apple don’t tolerate components failures. They are known to be very very strict with suppliers.

    Apple also uses smaller batteries than any manufacturers out there cause they are able to optimize their hardware with software.

    And I would invite you to have a look at a iPhone X tear down... you’ll be impressed by the internals and all the innovation in there (stacked logic board, L shaped battery, depth of field cameras...)

    I know I sound like a Apple fanboy but I hate when people talk about something that they have no idea about
    You're full of it. Apple has had many manufacturing issues, including batteries, antennas, stray current, and truthfully I can go on. I was referring to BB10 phones that were exceptional quality anyhow.....

    I like Apple, and I owned many of their phones. I currently own an iPhone 7.
    i_plod_an_dr_void likes this.
    11-09-17 06:35 PM
  3. Invictus0's Avatar
    At least Microsoft finally got the cojones to declare that their dead OS was dead, and make it official. Blackberry just keeps stringing it along.
    Both Microsoft and BlackBerry have said they'll focus on security and fixes for any future updates. Both are doing just that.
    11-09-17 07:10 PM
  4. conite's Avatar
    I am not sure you are correct with your prediction of "going down to about a half of million" users by next summer.
    Make it 600,000 or 700,000. Go out on a limb and make it a full million. It doesn't matter, the argument is still the same.
    11-09-17 07:18 PM
  5. bobshine's Avatar
    You're full of it. Apple has had many manufacturing issues, including batteries, antennas, stray current, and truthfully I can go on. I was referring to BB10 phones that were exceptional quality anyhow.....

    I like Apple, and I owned many of their phones. I currently own an iPhone 7.
    They sell over 80M phones per quarter... of course they’ll have issues. But antenna was a design flaw, not a defect. And what do you think they did with the battery issue? They replaced them all

    What did BB did with their screen lift? Or the loose batteries on the Z10?
    11-09-17 07:28 PM
  6. eshropshire's Avatar
    "Look at Senior *software* engineer and *software* engineer averages at Google and BB. Remember, payroll taxes in ON are very, very high (much higher than CA), so you have to add those employer paid taxes on top of these numbers:"
    there are few bones canadian gov throw to the company: R&D tax credit. (1) cost of developer - may not be as high as you quote - many still in waterloo region, live on 50-70K. (2) interns - around similar salary for U waterloo. BB started with interns. - remember Mike L was a student when he start the whole thing. (3) OS although it is not easy, but check Palm, still a few chaps lead, not near as billions (not mention 100 billions) cost. you do need close nit few beer fellow to live in basement (can't live in garages at -11 C, tomorrow for example). (4) the salary of R&D can be write off almost 70%... (5) Gov got incentive to hire new grad. If you are PhD, it will provide 50/50 match for 2 years project on salary to let you set foot into the industry. - but salary must be >50K I believe (that means you pay 25K for a PhD)... (6) all talk about funding is a bit scary... showed lack of passion to the BB10... if you really, really love it, you do it for free... take a day job (hopefully, no conflic interest)... like Jobs, the home made self drive car guy, etc.etc. if you really, really want BB10, find someone and convince him/her to do it if you lack of brain power to do so... (needle in a hay stack). if you find one, you possibly pull a string of few crazy chaps of his/her drinking buddy go along for a fun ride. (boom or bust you never know...). IMHO. (above mentioned items possibly why google set up office in waterloo/kitchener.... it hired many prior to BB massive downsize... so the caliber are mixed, not cream... few exBB still refuse to work for eye balls... the bad thing try to track freebee worker is: they are very choosy.. only work for chaps they feel like it...BB may paid them too much at exit door... ).
    Please let me know how many system level software engineers I can hire in Waterloo for under $70k. I will take a couple of dozen right away. Unfortunately, I also know they have all already been hired by Apple, Google and Microsoft. You can't hire just any software developer and expect them to be able to code and update a mobile OS like BB10.

    To update BB10 you would need a minimum of 20 and probably 25 system level software engineers and at least that many junior level software engineers. Plus around 20 highly skilled test engineers, yes engineers. In addition, build, support and product and project managers. We have not even started to discuss hardware and facilities needed to support the new team. Even with the liberal Canadian tax credits (I know about the credits I have several development teams in Canada). If you kept your budget at a minimum you might be able to keep the annual costs around $25 million. Running a large software business unit in a major tech company I can tell you the $25 million is a fantasy number. Probably at least 50% higher.

    Now other issues, if you some how get everyone hired (if and it's a big if) while competing with all the other companies trying to hire software engineers in Canada (lots of competition to hire in Canada because of the R&D credits). You have train these developer's to code BB10, this will take time. Once the training is complete you will be lucky to have your first update in 2019, to run on hardware from 2013 and 2014.

    The biggest obstacle is BlackBerry Limited, there is less than zero chance the BoD would approve restarting BB10. For $25 million BlackBerry Limited could get a much higher return developing enterprise software.
    glwerry likes this.
    11-09-17 08:30 PM
  7. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    Please let me know how many system level software engineers ....
    To update BB10 you would need a minimum of 20 and probably 25 system level software engineers and at least that many junior level software engineers. Plus around 20 highly skilled test engineers, yes engineers. In addition, build, support and product and project managers. ........... If you kept your budget at a minimum you might be able to keep the annual costs around $25 million. ...

    Now other issues...You have train these developer's to code BB10, this will take time. Once the training is complete you will be lucky to have your first update in 2019, to run on hardware from 2013 and 2014.

    The biggest obstacle is BlackBerry Limited, there is less than zero chance the BoD would approve restarting BB10. For $25 million BlackBerry Limited could get a much higher return developing enterprise software.
    1)Product Marketing....notify existing users by push....bb10 is not dead (device/BBM ) especially corp/gov , a you pay for life-extension update is coming within 3-6months, new product within 18months. Other ...yes identify what improvements are asap.
    2)Training to code bb10? Really? is C/C++ now a rare commodity? 3months to train bb10 internals/architecture/design methodology/standards max. Then some slow change progressing depending on experience. How many of those bb10 guys are retired or semi, I wonder....good mentorship program there if there are any kicking about. Return some key architects to the fold (perhaps profit-share)
    3)1st major update 8-12months out (perhaps continual minor patches before that every 30/60 days or after initial 5month period, subscription based of course).
    4)64bit new bb10-64 mid-level device 12-18months out....annual or 18 month rollout thereafter if moderately successful.
    5)spin-off the bb10 as a separate division/startup - wholly owned.
    6)Stay with android license as well - there's a niche for that (separate team), for those who care a whit about privacy.
    7)Brand recognition is still brand recognition.
    8) tic-toc, tic-toc

    11-09-17 10:21 PM
  8. conite's Avatar
    1)Product Marketing....notify existing users by push....bb10 is not dead (device/BBM ) especially corp/gov , a you pay for life-extension update is coming within 3-6months, new product within 18months. Other ...yes identify what improvements are asap.
    2)Training to code bb10? Really? is C/C++ now a rare commodity? 3months to train bb10 internals/architecture/design methodology/standards max. Then some slow change progressing depending on experience. How many of those bb10 guys are retired or semi, I wonder....good mentorship program there if there are any kicking about. Return some key architects to the fold (perhaps profit-share)
    3)1st major update 8-12months out (perhaps continual minor patches before that every 30/60 days or after initial 5month period, subscription based of course).
    4)64bit new bb10-64 mid-level device 12-18months out....annual or 18 month rollout thereafter if moderately successful.
    5)spin-off the bb10 as a separate division/startup - wholly owned.
    6)Stay with android license as well - there's a niche for that (separate team), for those who care a whit about privacy.
    7)Brand recognition is still brand recognition.
    8) tic-toc, tic-toc

    There is zero ROI for any of this. It's absolute folly.
    11-09-17 10:42 PM
  9. app_Developer's Avatar
    There is zero ROI for any of this. It's absolute folly.
    I would rather we spent this effort getting someone to resurrect Kodachrome. Now that’s a hopeless cause worth getting behind!
    11-09-17 10:51 PM
  10. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    I would rather we spent this effort getting someone to resurrect Kodachrome. Now that’s a hopeless cause worth getting behind!
    Only if it was a custom low-temperature, high powered BlackBerry specifically designed for Arctic regions...alaska, yukon/northern Canada ,scandanavia, russia etc because well Kodiak bears and Chrome....
    Either that or a special edition Harley Davidson for Alaska (Kodiak & yes again.. Chrome)....
    ....hmmm could be the name of the first bb10-64 device.....could use the Paul Simon Song...Gonna take my kodachrome away.
    11-09-17 11:04 PM
  11. joeldf's Avatar
    1)Product Marketing....notify existing users by push....bb10 is not dead (device/BBM ) especially corp/gov , a you pay for life-extension update is coming within 3-6months, new product within 18months. Other ...yes identify what improvements are asap.
    2)Training to code bb10? Really? is C/C++ now a rare commodity? 3months to train bb10 internals/architecture/design methodology/standards max. Then some slow change progressing depending on experience. How many of those bb10 guys are retired or semi, I wonder....good mentorship program there if there are any kicking about. Return some key architects to the fold (perhaps profit-share)
    3)1st major update 8-12months out (perhaps continual minor patches before that every 30/60 days or after initial 5month period, subscription based of course).
    4)64bit new bb10-64 mid-level device 12-18months out....annual or 18 month rollout thereafter if moderately successful.
    5)spin-off the bb10 as a separate division/startup - wholly owned.
    6)Stay with android license as well - there's a niche for that (separate team), for those who care a whit about privacy.
    7)Brand recognition is still brand recognition.
    8) tic-toc, tic-toc
    Okay, I'm not even in software development but I know pretty much everything you're suggesting is pure fantasy.

    Product marketing? To be effective, it would cost several million dollars alone. YouTube videos suck and won't cut it.

    Yes, training. Just knowing the programming language is not the same as knowing the system you're creating with it. And BB10 guys "retired"? Oh come on. BB10 development hasn't been around for that long. It was a whole new team to start with that weren't even experienced in BBOS. In fact, they purposely ignored the great features of BBOS when developing BB10 - and then spent the next two years trying to shoe-horn those features back into a UI the was obviously never meant to account for them.

    Your update and 64-bit release time frames are way out of sync with reality. The rest is a pipe dream.

    Brand recognition is a thing, no doubt. But it can be caustic too. After all these years, Pinto is still recognizable, but I seriously doubt that Ford will ever revive that name for a new line of cars any time soon. And I liked to one my Dad had when I was a kid in the 70s.
    glwerry likes this.
    11-09-17 11:11 PM
  12. Invictus0's Avatar
    I would rather we spent this effort getting someone to resurrect Kodachrome. Now that’s a hopeless cause worth getting behind!
    I hope you're sitting down

    https://fstoppers.com/film/kodachrom...ld-help-161128
    11-09-17 11:28 PM
  13. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    1)Product Marketing....notify existing users by push....bb10 is not dead (device/BBM ) especially corp/gov , a you pay for life-extension update is coming within 3-6months, new product within 18months. Other ...yes identify what improvements are asap.
    2)Training to code bb10? Really? is C/C++ now a rare commodity? 3months to train bb10 internals/architecture/design methodology/standards max. Then some slow change progressing depending on experience. How many of those bb10 guys are retired or semi, I wonder....good mentorship program there if there are any kicking about. Return some key architects to the fold (perhaps profit-share)
    3)1st major update 8-12months out (perhaps continual minor patches before that every 30/60 days or after initial 5month period, subscription based of course).
    4)64bit new bb10-64 mid-level device 12-18months out....annual or 18 month rollout thereafter if moderately successful.
    5)spin-off the bb10 as a separate division/startup - wholly owned.
    6)Stay with android license as well - there's a niche for that (separate team), for those who care a whit about privacy.
    7)Brand recognition is still brand recognition.
    8) tic-toc, tic-toc
    11-09-17 11:31 PM
  14. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    Okay, I'm not even in software development but I know pretty much everything you're suggesting is pure fantasy.

    Product marketing? To be effective, it would cost several million dollars alone. YouTube videos suck and won't cut it.

    Yes, training. Just knowing the programming language is not the same as knowing the system you're creating with it. And BB10 guys "retired"? Oh come on. BB10 development hasn't been around for that long. It was a whole new team to start with that weren't even experienced in BBOS. In fact, they purposely ignored the great features of BBOS when developing BB10 - and then spent the next two years trying to shoe-horn those features back into a UI the was obviously never meant to account for them.

    Your update and 64-bit release time frames are way out of sync with reality. The rest is a pipe dream.

    Brand recognition is a thing, no doubt. But it can be caustic too. After all these years, Pinto is still recognizable, but I seriously doubt that Ford will ever revive that name for a new line of cars any time soon. And I liked to one my Dad had when I was a kid in the 70s.
    Ford is the Brand , not pinto....and pinto [the model] won't be used until all things Spanish/Portugese become popular again, as they were at the time of the original Pinto. Bart Simpson being the exception (Ay Caramba!)
    Your not selling to the mass market...your selling to telecoms/corp/gov and yes maybe online stores intitially. Couple million in the budget might be reasonable for a device launch, not an OS upgrade enhancement.
    QNX has done all the legwork on 64 bit already on ARM architecture, stop the nonsense about the impossible mountain to climb (or shall I say to Dream the Impossible Dream...to fight the unbeatable foe..[POI: Man of La Mancha -same era as Pinto]). The QNX kernel also lies at the root of bb10.
    Not talking about a rewrite from bb0s to bb10, just improvements to bb10 and then onto the 64 bit platform.



    11-09-17 11:47 PM
  15. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    Is that the new Android software tool?
    11-09-17 11:50 PM
  16. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    Wonder who'll build the first hybrid digital slr/Super 8 add-on camera, supporting both formats, and whether Kodak will sell an automated at home "black-box" super-8 processing device.
    11-10-17 12:26 AM
  17. markmall's Avatar
    Are you kidding me? They left the device business and only "promise" was 10.3.3 and 10.3.4 which has been acknowledged fairly well on CB to have all been rolled into 10.3.3 with delays back then. A 10.4 would be a device gag that wipes your device clean of any OS and tells you to leave already Ferris Bueller style....
    Nice cultural reference -- the end of the credits from a movie 30 years ago! Wonder if we will ever have that much cultural coherence again.

    Posted via CB10
    Troy Tiscareno likes this.
    11-10-17 03:26 AM
  18. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Nice cultural reference -- the end of the credits from a movie 30 years ago! Wonder if we will ever have that much cultural coherence again.

    Posted via CB10
    I'm the eternal optimist/realist... I'm certain because we're humans and revert to middle over time.....
    11-10-17 07:24 AM
  19. stlabrat's Avatar
    "Please let me know how many system level software engineers I can hire in Waterloo for under $70k. I will take a couple of dozen right away. Unfortunately, I also know they have all already been hired by Apple, Google and Microsoft. You can't hire just any software developer and expect them to be able to code and update a mobile OS like BB10. "
    I never said BB10 should be re-surface... I prefer BB13 (my early post) if change direction of BB in the future (fat chance). Not all willing to move south... who ever left behind look like not in for the money but re-create the excitment of something new, riding the wave... work with drinking buddy as side show... (some times, the one without linkedin ;-). I know BB got few openning in CA hard to fill... even posted in waterloo (if those chaps jump back, I am sure they would asking for $$$ consider the risk of BB at current level).
    11-10-17 07:34 AM
  20. Rodrigo Lourenco's Avatar
    It has been calculated that the fee would be between $3000 and $5000 per user, per year. IF you can find 50,000 people willing to pay it.
    Inside the BB10, we are more than 50.000. IF we are 500.000, then 500euros, is not to much! LOL
    11-10-17 07:52 AM
  21. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Inside the BB10, we are more than 50.000. IF we are 500.000, then 500euros, is not to much! LOL
    I count as 10 of those unique BB10 users and I'm not interested.
    11-10-17 08:05 AM
  22. Rodrigo Lourenco's Avatar
    LOL! so jump for android
    11-10-17 08:47 AM
  23. johnny_bravo72's Avatar
    LOL! so jump for android
    Lol! Where do you think everyone else is?
    BB10 is but half a drop of water in the proverbial bucket. 😀
    11-10-17 09:05 AM
  24. Rodrigo Lourenco's Avatar
    Not everyone. I 've a Keyone, for the second time, but my phone is still Passport. The android doesn't do it well, it just do it.
    i_plod_an_dr_void likes this.
    11-10-17 09:08 AM
  25. app_Developer's Avatar
    Inside the BB10, we are more than 50.000. IF we are 500.000, then 500euros, is not to much! LOL
    If you got 100% participation. You could take 100,000 thirsty people and offer them a water subscription service and you will not get 100,000 payments per month. Not even close.

    That's just now how it works.
    11-10-17 09:14 AM
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