07-11-17 01:11 PM
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  1. conite's Avatar
    I'm amazed that so few people around here appreciate the potential of a truly converged Windows 10 running on phones, tablets and PCs.
    I don't think anybody doesn't appreciate the possibility, but Microsoft has had many plans in the past that have never come to fruition. Their commitment to mobile has always been temperamental at best. I think I've resigned myself to the I'll believe it when I see it approach.

    To me, there is still a chasm between bringing a desktop experience to a mobile device. Performance and battery issues come to the forefront in my mind.
    BigBadWulf, howarmat and elfabio80 like this.
    04-13-17 08:25 AM
  2. BigBadWulf's Avatar
    I've always found the concept intriguing, and the execution weak. One aspect of disappointment, has been the migration of desktop to a mobile theme, instead of the other way around. Lipstick on a pig, when they could have a serious, professional product.
    04-13-17 09:11 AM
  3. howarmat's Avatar
    I don't think anybody doesn't appreciate the possibility, but Microsoft has had many plans in the past that have never come to fruition. Their commitment to mobile has always been temperamental at best. I think I've resigned myself to the I'll believe it when I see it approach.

    To me, there is still a chasm between bringing a desktop experience to a mobile device. Performance and battery issues come to the forefront in my mind.
    Bingo....i would love to see it but they have promised this for 3 years now and its still not there yet. I dont think you will ever get there completely
    BigBadWulf likes this.
    04-13-17 09:15 AM
  4. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    OP - I'm thinking maybe an 80's bag phone for the retro look and feel...plus no data mining.

    Posted via CB10
    04-13-17 09:31 AM
  5. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    I don't think anybody doesn't appreciate the possibility, but Microsoft has had many plans in the past that have never come to fruition. Their commitment to mobile has always been temperamental at best. I think I've resigned myself to the I'll believe it when I see it approach.

    To me, there is still a chasm between bringing a desktop experience to a mobile device. Performance and battery issues come to the forefront in my mind.
    Microsoft has been executing like crazy, and personally I think that that is why they effectively quit Windows 10 Mobile, just like they did Windows RT before that. Those were legacy initiatives that they realized would never succeed.

    I don't know if they will target the consumer market with a Surface device at launch. I think they would be better off releasing an ARM-based Surface solution to replace corporate laptops for non-technical employees with a portable, dockable, always connected device with full mobile phone capabilities.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    04-13-17 09:46 AM
  6. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    The lack of true multitasking is one of my biggest complaints with mobile devices. It's like we're living back in the early 90s with Windows 3.1!
    Your complaints have nothing whatsoever to do with "true multitasking" - something all of the OSs can easily do. Rather, they have to do with decisions that the app developers have made regarding battery use. It would be trivially easy to let all of those background processes run at the same time - the processor has more than enough processing power to handle it - but you would see your battery life plummet, because all of those CPU cycles require power, and on a small battery-powered device, power is a finite resource.

    Of course your desktops can do it without issue - they're plugged into a giant, always-on power source and can suck as much power as they like. Different decisions have to be made for a mobile device if you hope to have more than an hour of battery life. Not everyone will agree with the trade-offs made - because people use their devices differently - but the trade-offs were thought through and were made based on the best interests of the majority of users - and they're made at the APP level, not the OS level.
    04-13-17 02:45 PM
  7. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Your complaints have nothing whatsoever to do with "true multitasking" - something all of the OSs can easily do. Rather, they have to do with decisions that the app developers have made regarding battery use. It would be trivially easy to let all of those background processes run at the same time - the processor has more than enough processing power to handle it - but you would see your battery life plummet, because all of those CPU cycles require power, and on a small battery-powered device, power is a finite resource.

    Of course your desktops can do it without issue - they're plugged into a giant, always-on power source and can suck as much power as they like. Different decisions have to be made for a mobile device if you hope to have more than an hour of battery life. Not everyone will agree with the trade-offs made - because people use their devices differently - but the trade-offs were thought through and were made based on the best interests of the majority of users - and they're made at the APP level, not the OS level.
    As a user, I don't care if it's a technical limitation or an issue of the developer's implementation choices. My inability to mute a phone call and watch a video that is being discussed on the call means I have to use a laptop for a phone call. And if I need to do that I don't need a mobile phone at all.

    My frustration with the current mobile ecosystem is that a bunch of individual developers are writing individual apps with not enough guidance on interoperability from the OS development team. I'm sure it will mature over time, but mobile apps today feel a lot like DOS apps in the 1980s: unitasking islands of code.

    If all one needs is to talk on the phone, then call for an Uber, then buy some tickets, while taking photos and posting on social media, it's great. That's the use case that Android and iOS are designed for. But when I need to do actual work while on the phone for long periods of time, then my phone is practically useless, since I can make the same phone call and multitask properly on the laptop.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    04-13-17 06:14 PM
  8. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    All you're saying is that you're an edge case. Mainstream users prefer a battery that gets them through the day, rather than the ability to watch videos while they're on a conference call. Again, you don't seem to grasp the power implications of what you want. Perhaps in a few years, hardware will improve enough that these limitations can be removed.
    04-13-17 06:47 PM
  9. Drael646464's Avatar
    I'm amazed that so few people around here appreciate the potential of a truly converged Windows 10 running on phones, tablets and PCs.
    Yeah you would think that would get more of a "bell ring" with blackberry users.
    04-13-17 09:42 PM
  10. Drael646464's Avatar
    I don't think anybody doesn't appreciate the possibility, but Microsoft has had many plans in the past that have never come to fruition. Their commitment to mobile has always been temperamental at best. I think I've resigned myself to the I'll believe it when I see it approach.

    To me, there is still a chasm between bringing a desktop experience to a mobile device. Performance and battery issues come to the forefront in my mind.
    Well if you doubt that they are doing this, go onto your creators update windows 10 PC, and look and see the from mobile imported services like "phone", "sms/mms settings", "mobile hotspot" yourself. Its quite clear IMO that this is happening.

    Performance Is no worry, modern hardware is up to desktop miminum spec, 3-4gb ram etc. Windows tablets have no issues with battery life, and ARM is more power conserving. But I am sure battery optimisation is why Microsoft recently hired some more mobile developers.
    04-13-17 09:49 PM
  11. Drael646464's Avatar
    Microsoft has been executing like crazy, and personally I think that that is why they effectively quit Windows 10 Mobile, just like they did Windows RT before that. Those were legacy initiatives that they realized would never succeed.

    I don't know if they will target the consumer market with a Surface device at launch. I think they would be better off releasing an ARM-based Surface solution to replace corporate laptops for non-technical employees with a portable, dockable, always connected device with full mobile phone capabilities.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    I see another possibility for consumers though. With a touch based xbox controller built in, windows 10 on arm could also be a vastly superior gaming device to other smartphones (the vast catalogue of controller compatible legacy games would be hugely appealing to mobile gamer enthusiasts). That might be a niche crowd, but between that and enterprise, that's a great way to re-capture enough market share to pick up the development train.

    And the other crowd- creatives. If a scalable version of adobe illustrator were brought in (honestly I'd so pay adobe for this if I were MS).....You'd have the full triune of windows - gamers, creatives and business.
    04-13-17 09:52 PM
  12. Drael646464's Avatar
    All you're saying is that you're an edge case. Mainstream users prefer a battery that gets them through the day, rather than the ability to watch videos while they're on a conference call. Again, you don't seem to grasp the power implications of what you want. Perhaps in a few years, hardware will improve enough that these limitations can be removed.
    I'm not sure that would require years. When you stop using your phone, it goes to sleep and uses barely anything. Hibernation - nothing at all. Using two apps at once with RT multi-tasking wont increase consumption that much (It hardly kills windows tablets, the main difference there is intel versus arm). You can put a 3500-4000 Mah battery in a phone. Give that a moderate DPI like 350, and a low power consumption CPU, and I really don't see RT multi-tasking being a problem. The KEYone for example has day and a half use.
    04-13-17 09:59 PM
  13. BigBadWulf's Avatar
    The lack of true multitasking is one of my biggest complaints with mobile devices. It's like we're living back in the early 90s with Windows 3.1!

    A few examples:

    1) Not being able to quickly watch a work-related training video while on a conference call (switching the audio to the video witho.ut dropping the call). I'm often on hour-long calls as a host where my participation is not needed for a few minutes, and I could use that time to review information in the training videos we're discussing on the call.

    2) While riding in a car as the navigator, map programs fail to update location continuously if the map program isn't active, causing me to miss turns when multitasking.

    3) If I need to load a bunch of web pages, only the active page will load, so that I have to wait for each page to load when it's active. I want to be able to let 4 or 5 others preload while I'm reading the first one.

    4) When running small simulations or other computational processes that take time, I can't complete other tasks and let the calculations run in the background.

    All of these tasks are trivially simple on Windows, Linux and MacOS. Just another way in which the current crop of mobile OSes are not ready for prime time.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    1) See below
    Not going to the new blackdroid phones? Where to next?-tmp_5114-screenshot_20170413-214823116830552.jpg

    Problem is, there's no hold button, so you get both audio, though the video being on speaker is much louder.

    2) Tested the other day. Had the hub open, and Google maps still provided voice guidance, and accurately.

    3) I can't load many pages at once, especially if large, but considering they all load quickly, not a big deal for me. I can see this being a minor frustration.

    4) I've never run anything on my phone that takes a long time to process. What apps? I'll give it a shot.

    Posted from my trusty MoFo
    Fret Madden likes this.
    04-13-17 10:00 PM
  14. Drael646464's Avatar
    I'm honestly still conflicted about where to go next. I'm not a huge app person. Like most people I don't actually use that many. I don't like the way google treats it customers, which is increasingly similar to apple, so I don't like putting money in their pocket via search (plenty of other good options).

    But I am pretty married to this keyboard thing. VKB, which I've used before, even with swype is just not as good.

    Otherwise I'd go over to windows on arm when that comes to phones (likely in next year). But I don't see them making keyboard phones.

    I don't really _want_ to upgrade either. A new phone would offer me a new camera, and that's about it, unless the wheels have fallen off bb10.
    04-27-17 07:49 PM
  15. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Yeah. I feel you. Personally I feel we are in a lull between the end of the first phase of smart phones and the convergence of mobile and PCs I want that is likely 3-5 years away. I can't do any meaningful work without my laptop with me EXCEPT for the stuff I can do perfectly on my BB10 phone. So why get excited about a different smart phone?

    For example, I manage two Facebook corporate pages, so that should be a no-brainer for a mobile device, but I can't even do the tasks I need to do on a brand new iPad, let alone on a smartphone.
    BBHermes likes this.
    04-29-17 09:47 PM
  16. BigBadWulf's Avatar
    I'm honestly still conflicted about where to go next. I'm not a huge app person. Like most people I don't actually use that many. I don't like the way google treats it customers, which is increasingly similar to apple, so I don't like putting money in their pocket via search (plenty of other good options).

    But I am pretty married to this keyboard thing. VKB, which I've used before, even with swype is just not as good.

    Otherwise I'd go over to windows on arm when that comes to phones (likely in next year). But I don't see them making keyboard phones.

    I don't really _want_ to upgrade either. A new phone would offer me a new camera, and that's about it, unless the wheels have fallen off bb10.
    Sounds like your answer to your own thread is, nowhere.
    04-30-17 12:37 AM
  17. johnsliderbb's Avatar
    All you're saying is that you're an edge case. Mainstream users prefer a battery that gets them through the day, rather than the ability to watch videos while they're on a conference call. Again, you don't seem to grasp the power implications of what you want. Perhaps in a few years, hardware will improve enough that these limitations can be removed.
    My favourite topic.

    All Android would need is a little button in the settings. "Always keep running media yes/no" .

    Focus on the UE means giving user choices.

    Your "edge case" doesn't sound so edge to me. Sounds more like a typical business traveller who appreciates not needing to carry and a laptop and a phone and whatever in his small trolly.
    Last edited by johnsliderbb; 05-18-17 at 04:20 AM.
    05-18-17 03:17 AM
  18. Old_Mil's Avatar
    I have a z10 as my daily driver...and a few z30s in reserve.

    When those die off I suspect that my next phone will be a relaunched Nokia 3310 and I will drop the data plan.
    05-18-17 01:24 PM
  19. erguduju's Avatar
    I have a z10 as my daily driver...and a few z30s in reserve.

    When those die off I suspect that my next phone will be a relaunched Nokia 3310 and I will drop the data plan.
    The relaunched Nokia looks better and better as an option to replace bb10. At least with it I will have privacy. The rest will be a little complicated but I have done it before and it was not that bad.
    coffeehill likes this.
    05-19-17 12:00 AM
  20. eshropshire's Avatar
    The relaunched Nokia looks better and better as an option to replace bb10. At least with it I will have privacy. The rest will be a little complicated but I have done it before and it was not that bad.
    Why? Relaunched Nokia are built in China and sold by a small company in Finland that licensed the Nokia name from Nokia. Similar to the TCL's BlackBerry relationship only difference is the Nokia licensee is much smaller than TCL.
    05-19-17 11:56 AM
  21. Sue-zz's Avatar
    I have a z10 as my daily driver...and a few z30s in reserve.

    When those die off I suspect that my next phone will be a relaunched Nokia 3310 and I will drop the data plan.
    Same here. After previous tests with Android 'things' and seeing the idiotic amount of data transferred for updates, phoning home to Google, and all the rest of it, I've got the Z10 'tuned' to the point of using zero 3G data unless I fire up a browser, or manually refresh the Hub.

    This drops the running cost of the phone to almost zero, other than low rate calls and SMS. Compare with chums paying £45 a month to run the latest iThing (£540 a year) and using 20GB of data a month.

    I'm not a skinflint but I can spend £540 a year on something more interesting than a mobile phone. :-)

    There will be a 3G Nokia 3310 Dual-Sim coming out later in the year for some markets (not yet announced).
    05-20-17 01:53 AM
  22. erguduju's Avatar
    Why? Relaunched Nokia are built in China and sold by a small company in Finland that licensed the Nokia name from Nokia. Similar to the TCL's BlackBerry relationship only difference is the Nokia licensee is much smaller than TCL.
    Because is a 'feature' phone and not a 'smart' phone. In this day and age you have no choice regarding smartphones. You either give all your life to someone, Google or Apple , or you choose a 'feature' phone. Blackberry is out and microsoft not far behind, not that Microsoft is in any way different from Google or Apple. So if you value your privacy you have no option smartphonewise.
    05-20-17 02:37 AM
  23. Trouveur's Avatar
    Because is a 'feature' phone and not a 'smart' phone. In this day and age you have no choice regarding smartphones. You either give all your life to someone, Google or Apple , or you choose a 'feature' phone. Blackberry is out and microsoft not far behind, not that Microsoft is in any way different from Google or Apple. So if you value your privacy you have no option smartphonewise.
    There is still Sailfish and Tizen.


    Posted via CB10
    05-20-17 03:52 AM
  24. stlabrat's Avatar
    Bloody hell. Can some one make the brain chip on market faster? I want this. Future Computing: Brain-Based Chips | Henry Markram
    That will solve majority of the problem. Dev included.

    Posted via CB10
    05-20-17 07:25 AM
  25. nevertoofar's Avatar
    I also gave Windows 10 mobile a try but it's not too diferent to Android and the gap did not compensate so I went into android. I've just bought a BlackBerry passport for the nostalgia .
    05-20-17 11:16 AM
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