07-11-17 02:11 PM
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  1. Drael646464's Avatar
    Your imagination far exceeds their execution.
    That's officially what Microsoft has said they will be developing windows 10 into. Google it. Your cynicism is larger than my imagination. Nothing they have said under the new CEO so far has disappointed. The HoloLens, the studio surface, the surface, the desktop iterations....

    All steady but visionary progress.
    TgeekB likes this.
    04-08-17 12:18 AM
  2. Drael646464's Avatar
    More to the point @Drael646464 as has been noted several times already, this thread is about where to go from BB10, and you keep talking about Windows mobile. If you're right, it's way to far in the future to wait for. If you're wrong, and I believe based on their track record you are, there is no future. Out of the pan and into the fire.
    Yes, I believe you have said these sorts of things before. I understand your position on the matter fairly well at this stage. Let me know if you have anything new to add!

    I am replying to people, and making conversation. If people want to focus on what phones they wish to buy after blackberry I'd enjoy that. There is some such conversation above, on this page, and you'd be most welcome to join in
    04-08-17 12:21 AM
  3. BigBadWulf's Avatar
    I don't know who we is either. Perhaps you can be more specific?

    I think I adequately explained that Microsoft is not designing for present markets, nor likely will windows 10 mobile (whatever it becomes called), will most likely not be exclusively for slab smartphones, and also that intel is not out of the smartphone game either.
    Since you understand you're off topic then, can we stay on topic?

    We've seen a leak
    That we.
    04-08-17 12:23 AM
  4. Drael646464's Avatar
    Since you understand you're off topic then, can we stay on topic?
    I prefer to just converse and reply to people naturally. But if I am off topic, I think the same could be said of you. There are some smartphone related things I replied to above, and you'd be most welcome to join in.

    That we.
    Ah, well "people generally", "the public". It was a document leak that listen x86 as a windows mobile version.
    04-08-17 12:25 AM
  5. thurask's Avatar
    https://techcrunch.com/2017/03/01/intel-5g-mwc/

    Intel's chip design could be used inside some smartphones in 2017

    Not really, but that's not the entire point of making a fork of windows for every type of hardware anyway.

    They'll be starting developing the tiny screen, and screenless versions of windows 10 shortly I imagine, and they'll have to actually develop some of the hardware for that to even run on.

    Microsoft's strategy here is a very future minded one - 'one core' is hardware independent. Once they have a version of windows 10 on every type of hardware, and a bunch of new form factors and categories of devices, windows 10 will be future proofed, designed to tie the IoT together in a way no other system will be able to.

    They are as interested in long plays as short ones.
    So, according to your crystal meth ball, the savior of Windows 10 is some no-name Chinese outfit with a midrange x86 chip a year after Intel gave up on x86 CPUs on phones (newsflash: modems =/= CPUs). Right.

    And in all of this pontificating about what the future is, you're so farsighted as to not notice the titlebar right in front of you saying that this isn't Windows Central. Put down the pipe.
    Last edited by thurask; 04-08-17 at 01:58 AM.
    BigBadWulf, Uzi, john_v and 1 others like this.
    04-08-17 01:23 AM
  6. Matty's Avatar
    My first Blackberry 10 device was the Q5 and I was / am very happy it. I used it for over 3 years and it's been a great experience. I wanted to get an upgrade not only because of the application situation but also because of the age.

    I got a Blackberry Leap (courtesy of CB) which was awesome but after a couple months I started to miss my physical keyboard. So where to next?

    The only keyboard device available at the time was the Priv. I loved it but not enough to spend $699 or $649. So back to the drawing board. A couple months passed and I was given a sign that the Priv was for me and spotted a deal on Shop.bb for $299 so I snagged that 😃

    Blackberry Android isn't so bad and I can't say that I miss my Blackberry 10 devices that much. Still have my Blackberry hub, BBM and Crackberry so all is good.
    BigBadWulf and anon(9803228) like this.
    04-08-17 01:46 AM
  7. Drael646464's Avatar
    So, according to your crystal meth ball, the savior of Windows 10 is some no-name Chinese outfit with a midrange x86 chip a year after Intel gave up on x86 CPUs on phones (newsflash: modems =/= CPUs). Right.

    And in all of this pontificating about what the future is, you're so farsighted as to not notice the titlebar right in front of you saying that this isn't Windows Central. Put down the pipe.
    I don't envy your state of mind, friend. Must be dark in there. But no, I didn't say any of that. Not really sure where you got any of that from. Windows 10 redstone 3 runs x86 desktop applications on ARM x64, they demo'd it last year in December running video and adobe photoshop. But it doesn't particularly matter, I am not sure you are interested in what I am saying anyway, despite your avid commenting on my threads.
    Last edited by Drael646464; 04-08-17 at 05:50 AM.
    TgeekB likes this.
    04-08-17 02:34 AM
  8. Drael646464's Avatar
    My first Blackberry 10 device was the Q5 and I was / am very happy it. I used it for over 3 years and it's been a great experience. I wanted to get an upgrade not only because of the application situation but also because of the age.

    I got a Blackberry Leap (courtesy of CB) which was awesome but after a couple months I started to miss my physical keyboard. So where to next?

    The only keyboard device available at the time was the Priv. I loved it but not enough to spend $699 or $649. So back to the drawing board. A couple months passed and I was given a sign that the Priv was for me and spotted a deal on Shop.bb for $299 so I snagged that ������

    Blackberry Android isn't so bad and I can't say that I miss my Blackberry 10 devices that much. Still have my Blackberry hub, BBM and Crackberry so all is good.
    Well android as an OS, is pretty good. Lots of apps. I like the interface of bb10, but its not the be all and end all. Android - I don't hate it, but I don't love it. It's just kinda meh to me. Mind you so would another bb10 device, be to me.

    For all my issues with apple, I'd rather get an iPhone with a keyboard attachment, than go android. I want a smartphone with more powerful software. I hate freemium models with a passion.

    I guess as someone who has used android instensively, fiddled with it at a technical level for my jobs, well before I used the ol' basic bb10, I come in at a different place.

    Yeah, I think at this point android is definitely a better OS than bb10. bb10 barely has legs app wise. For a lot of blackberry diehards, its probably quite nice.
    Last edited by Drael646464; 04-08-17 at 03:00 AM.
    04-08-17 02:41 AM
  9. Drael646464's Avatar
    I think that's really the cruncher for me.

    Maybe if as everyone is so convinced, windows will have abandoned windows mobile a year after a year or two of investment developing the arm emu with no actual release, and they spend a few years under the new CEO making promises of a unified platform, only to give up on it two years after release of windows 10, I will get myself an iPhone

    That all seems extremely improbable, much less likely that the keyONE actually pushing any significant number of units, but it hardly matters, its a phone.

    I mean I hate the closed system mentality, but I want quality software. I'd also like the technical flexibility of android (windows 10 will have both, and more of that latter), but I'd rather have better software development funding.

    Plus iphones do have keyboard attachments. Its a decent phone, and apple know risc coding very well, those things purr.

    Anyone else here thinking of an iPhone?

    If you like the iPhone, sell me on iPhone I've never properly used iOS.
    Last edited by Drael646464; 04-08-17 at 03:14 AM.
    04-08-17 02:52 AM
  10. Drael646464's Avatar
    I think the other thing that puts me off blackdroid is, that one of android attraction points for me, is its technical flexibility. Resizing partitions, customizing settings files, changing the CPU priority, sleep mode settings, getting in under the hood, pushing up the performance, the battery life, changing the OS.

    If you can't root your android phone, for me, you loose a lot of the reasons for going android.

    I honestly couldn't imagine buying an android device I can't tinker with. I'd rather have a phone without a keyboard than android without root access.
    Last edited by Drael646464; 04-08-17 at 03:15 AM.
    jope28 likes this.
    04-08-17 02:57 AM
  11. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    I think the other thing that puts me off blackdroid is, that one of android attraction points for me, is its technical flexibility. Resizing partitions, customizing settings files, changing the CPU priority, sleep mode settings, getting in under the hood, pushing up the performance, the battery life, changing the OS.

    If you can't root your android phone, for me, you loose a lot of the reasons for going android.

    I honestly couldn't imagine buying an android device I can't tinker with. I'd rather have a phone without a keyboard than android without root access.
    I am on the complete opposite side of the spectrum. I love to tinker with my Windows and Linux PCs and software, but I have zero interest in my phone being anything more than a superb communications and personal organization appliance! I just want it to work out of the box with my only investment being connecting it to my accounts and cloud resources. What bothers me about Android is the idea that I have to go out and research/shop for apps that I believe should be included in the core OS, such as a freaking file manager! LOL

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    04-08-17 05:16 AM
  12. Drael646464's Avatar
    I am on the complete opposite side of the spectrum. I love to tinker with my Windows and Linux PCs and software, but I have zero interest in my phone being anything more than a superb communications and personal organization appliance! I just want it to work out of the box with my only investment being connecting it to my accounts and cloud resources. What bothers me about Android is the idea that I have to go out and research/shop for apps that I believe should be included in the core OS, such as a freaking file manager! LOL

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    Android does have a file manager, it's just terrible :P
    04-08-17 05:51 AM
  13. stlabrat's Avatar
    x86 as in the 32 bit intel chipset. We've seen a leak with "windows mobile on ARM" (64 bit) and "windows mobile on x86" (32 bit). If that happens both will be able to run win32. Currently windows mobile only runs on arm (32 bit) and can only run UWP apps.
    https://www.qualcomm.com/products/sn.../modems/5g/x50
    have enough power for 5g? or we need something else to fully utilize x50? (with processor power to speare --- like utilize only 75% ish.. without heating too much... x86 still power hungary, either 64 or 32... we - as whole field who ever dip their toes in the semi water, might need to use something new, use less power - such as true north chip- or something else in order to materialize the full html5 dynamic web access in time... IMHO
    04-08-17 06:48 AM
  14. Drael646464's Avatar
    https://www.qualcomm.com/products/sn.../modems/5g/x50
    have enough power for 5g? or we need something else to fully utilize x50? (with processor power to speare --- like utilize only 75% ish.. without heating too much... x86 still power hungary, either 64 or 32... we - as whole field who ever dip their toes in the semi water, might need to use something new, use less power - such as true north chip- or something else in order to materialize the full html5 dynamic web access in time... IMHO
    I don't know all that much about 5G. From what I have heard, it requires using several mobile networks at once - "carrier aggregation". If that's true, its only going to work in countries with larger populations, and then also only within high population densities, like cities. It would also require companies to all work together. And if the power drain is a step up from 4G, and imagine it is by a decent factor, its going to drain battery even more.

    The prototypes people have been demo'ing look quite awhile away from being able to actually be put in devices....chunky early prototype looking things. Doesn't look anywhere near heating or power engineering level.

    But yeah, not even a casual amateur on the topic of 5g :P Perhaps someone else can chime in.

    I'm not sure I fully understand your question, sorry too!

    But I don't see a lot of use in 5G. Main uses of bandwidth are streaming, downloading. Watching videos on a phone is a terrible experience, and I don't think people generally download much from them either. Streaming AAA games from your xbox or geeked out windows 10 machine - that might be a worthy use of the bandwidth. Streamed 3D video or VR might be another, but I don't think mobile data capacity will be up to that just yet. Really fibre is only just getting there.
    Last edited by Drael646464; 04-08-17 at 07:14 AM.
    04-08-17 07:01 AM
  15. stlabrat's Avatar
    I think the other thing that puts me off blackdroid is, that one of android attraction points for me, is its technical flexibility. Resizing partitions, customizing settings files, changing the CPU priority, sleep mode settings, getting in under the hood, pushing up the performance, the battery life, changing the OS.

    If you can't root your android phone, for me, you loose a lot of the reasons for going android.

    I honestly couldn't imagine buying an android device I can't tinker with. I'd rather have a phone without a keyboard than android without root access.
    at current consumer state of the mind, handset is still not in the level of essential business/life tool (different from the BB enterprise target market, especially, for both droid and iOS... however iOS is getting into seriousness of business, e.g. hospital and Gov). Next gen handset, if it is going to change the application not for socializing, gaming, but also for life saving remote medical advice seeking, connection to sensor, banking (apple pay, ali pay?), self driving etc. rootable device post huge risk and less markable than close system (Blackdroid strike a middle ground, still got google that everybody willing to pay using their privacy - data collection via google, to keep lower price, but not rootable to keep it sort of secure). Rootable handsets by default most likely not have that much future except in some far east or middle east... IMHO. (to someone want to show case their rooting skill, or live on hackthorn price money, I can see the benefit, but for consumer market as whole, little or no value add).
    04-08-17 07:10 AM
  16. rookieblackberry's Avatar
    I will probably go back to using payphones when bb10 stops functioning.
    On a serious note I will just see which phone is best for my usage when bb10 isn't usable for my communication tasks. Im hoping there will be some alternative for ios and android with good security and productivity such as sailfish os which is not completely there yet.
    Will there ever be good replacement for bb10?

    Posted via CB10
    04-08-17 07:11 AM
  17. stlabrat's Avatar
    high clock speed, high power consumption is not necessary means high performance. the true north chip went to opposite: low clock speed, ultra low power consumption, possibly superior performance... battery and thermal dissipation (your handset might not get hot) should be improved... downside, programming in a new paradigm - heard is not easy. IBM Research: Brain-inspired Chip
    04-08-17 07:19 AM
  18. Drael646464's Avatar
    at current consumer state of the mind, handset is still not in the level of essential business/life tool (different from the BB enterprise target market, especially, for both droid and iOS... however iOS is getting into seriousness of business, e.g. hospital and Gov). Next gen handset, if it is going to change the application not for socializing, gaming, but also for life saving remote medical advice seeking, connection to sensor, banking (apple pay, ali pay?), self driving etc. rootable device post huge risk and less markable than close system (Blackdroid strike a middle ground, still got google that everybody willing to pay using their privacy - data collection via google, to keep lower price, but not rootable to keep it sort of secure). Rootable handsets by default most likely not have that much future except in some far east or middle east... IMHO. (to someone want to show case their rooting skill, or live on hackthorn price money, I can see the benefit, but for consumer market as whole, little or no value add).
    Well that's part of what I meant by iOS has a slightly higher quality of software. Some of it, approaches desktop software in quality (mainly the commercially developed enterprise stuff).

    Watson has some medical advise diagnostic software but they were made to take it offline. Similar thing is happening with self-driving cars, they are being held back by safety concerns. Smart homes still seem in early stages, as do wearables. It'll all get there in the end though!
    04-08-17 07:19 AM
  19. Drael646464's Avatar
    high clock speed, high power consumption is not necessary means high performance. the true north chip went to opposite: low clock speed, ultra low power consumption, possibly superior performance... battery and thermal dissipation (your handset might not get hot) should be improved... downside, programming in a new paradigm - heard is not easy. IBM Research: Brain-inspired Chip
    Ah, the brain! Yes, that's an area I understand well. Brain doesn't have a high processing speed, but is massively parallel (all the neurons are like slow CPUs, well except they are analogue, and because there are so many working at once, they are still much faster).

    There have been a few projects into brain like archectures from memory. The way pattern recognition, impulse, intuition and creativity works depends of neural nets. An intelligence or platform built on this system would work entirely different from conventional chips.

    Much like we have an intuition that can be accurate but can't relate the specific data points (this is dangerous as a situation, for example), this more AI, style of processing wouldn't be transparent, like code. It would be more 'alive'.
    04-08-17 07:27 AM
  20. Drael646464's Avatar
    IBM is kinda leading the cognitive bleeding edge right now. But I don't think any one person or company will be able to build the whole thing. Either one company buys out all the little ones, or people have to share to get it all done. There's too much, some heuristic, some cognitive modelling/design, some learning machines. And there are still mysteries to the brain.

    It would be as much an exercise in understanding ourselves.
    04-08-17 07:30 AM
  21. TgeekB's Avatar
    The Alcatel Idol 4s is a lot cheaper. Although its fairly comparable to the 950.

    I think we will see a lot of others manufacturers experiment with 10 mobile after the update. I find it fascinating that TCL basically reused hardware it developed for blackberry, for their windows phone (And by all accounts its a decent phone). Bet they found it A LOT easier to get a carrier with that phone too (as opposed to the keyone).

    Microsofts MO is new form factors.

    So no doubt they want a unique form factor for the surface phone, as well as new forms for wearables.

    They have patented a keyboard cover for it. Not sure what they have planned there.

    I know they are working on Cortana as a "superapp", with skype bots running under it (like a conversational app store), and I'd expect they'd want to perfect that more before they release a smart home device - especially given they are basically useless gimmicks at this stage. No one even uses assistants that much anyway yet.

    But their plan for voice is different from all the rest, much like their plans for everything else. They also purchased the first AI company to develop an AI that _understands_ language. In a primitive sense, but it actually learns the meaning of words from their context.

    Seems like they'd rather "get it right" than just release with these things. The HoloLens is still in development, despite pretty full intergration into the OS. They basically sprung the surface studio on everyone.

    The windows phone hype reminds me a bit of the foldable screen hype. They've been talking about that as a "rumoured release' since Microsoft and Samsung showed their joint developed prototype in like 2013. (People will go bonkers for it like the iPhone 1)

    But it's most likely half a decade, maybe more off mass production. Right now it costs thousands for a single phone. Its based on ultra-tech graphene after all.

    Surface phone won't be that bad, I'd say, 2-3 years, but it ain't coming soon.

    Myself, I'd pee my pants if TCL re-used the keyone frame/keyboard for their next alcatel Idol phone. I would wait in a line for that.

    I wouldn't want to see 3gb's in their though, bit low considering windows phone will be able to run desktop apps soon. 4 would be plenty.

    I'm currently using the Alcatel Idol4s. Great phone and very happy with W10.

    Sent from mTalk on my SP4
    04-08-17 08:10 AM
  22. stlabrat's Avatar
    (1) true north is digital. (2) one company with platform always is the case: PC from IBM and Mac, GR (telecommunication general requirement) from ATT, etc. although there are consortium, but always based on one leading player... the democratic voting system currently in the some standard setting committees diluted to mediocracy - 70% ish that can comply, rather than leading edge, that is why company internal standard, such as apple is better than standards... hopefully, the tide will turn soon, at least for the new technologies, the low grade player not in the game play yet... (3) swift (apple) program language consolidated both hardware and software, the advantage BB used to have (plus server farm), but lost it by cut off hardware. crippled platform now. Will see what BBM can do. (hopefully, they pick up CB as official support... so far, i am still waiting after BB drop the ball... no official body pick it up, but CB - good for CB).
    04-08-17 08:55 AM
  23. Drael646464's Avatar
    I'm currently using the Alcatel Idol4s. Great phone and very happy with W10.

    Sent from mTalk on my SP4
    What's the sound quality like, with headphones? Seems like that's one of its strengths, call and music quality, always a feature I enjoy.
    04-08-17 09:45 AM
  24. TgeekB's Avatar
    What's the sound quality like, with headphones? Seems like that's one of its strengths, call and music quality, always a feature I enjoy.
    Very good. Its speakers are front and back so no matter how you lay it down you can hear the music. Headphones seem to work well also.
    I understand some peoples reluctance to use WM because of the uncertainty of the platform on phones but there are some good current phones that are being supported with frequent updates. I agree with you that the future is set in a new, exciting direction. That's a ways off though. For now, though limited, there are device choices that can be used and I think are a natural move for BlackBerry users.

    Sent from mTalk on my SP4
    04-08-17 09:51 AM
  25. sonicpix's Avatar
    I have no idea where I'd go next.
    Physical keyboard is great for me, but hdmi out isn't necessary since I use the Microsoft wireless display adapter with the Passport and it works well.


    Am not a fan of Android on my phone.
    I use Android on two tablets now (first thing I do is root and install AdAway along with a few 'tweaks' that need root).
    BB10 has always felt less "fishy" since Goggle isn't involved, so never felt like I really needed that level of power over BB10 like I do with Android.

    iOS is out of the question for me since I'm not a fan of many things Apple does.

    My guess is that when my Passport dies, that I'll end up having to sacrifice my desire for a physical keyboard and just settle for whatever 'insignificant OS has the third place at that moment.

    I'm Guessing that Microsoft will have given up on phones by then, so have no idea what that 3rd option will be.

    If there is no 3rd option, then I guess I'd have to go Android, but not a BlackBerry Android device since I'd want to root any Android device.

    I don't need what 'most users' look for since I just use what most ppl would consider "utility apps" plus the browser.
    Don't use social media or games on a phone.

    I need a physical keyboard device to be released by someone unexpected lol.



    Passport/10.3.2.2876
    I'm like you and the poster above.

    The best option for me right now, is a Sony xperia with Sailfish installed. Sony has been pushing open source OS phones. The newest Xperia will accept Sailfish.

    But I can say, with my camera acting up.....I'm getting 'no BB10' anxiety.
    jope28 likes this.
    04-08-17 10:31 AM
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