04-25-17 01:14 AM
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  1. Vistaus's Avatar
    So OP, what is the alternative? You want BlackBerry to keep making BB10 phones and developing the BB10 OS, at staggering losses, for a small group of people?

    They've already agreed to provide support and security patches.
    Maybe if they tried to do some marketing, the group would grow. It's a risk for sure, but better sorry for not getting enough sales from marketing then not having tried marketing at all.

    Posted via CB10 using BlackBerry Passport (OG Red)
    01-06-16 12:42 AM
  2. conite's Avatar
    Maybe if they tried to do some marketing, the group would grow. It's a risk for sure, but better sorry for not getting enough sales from marketing then not having tried marketing at all.

    Posted via CB10 using BlackBerry Passport (OG Red)
    I appreciate your point of view, but I honestly feel we have gone way, way beyond the point of no return.
    Elephant_Canyon likes this.
    01-06-16 12:44 AM
  3. Velocitymj's Avatar
    So OP, what is the alternative? You want BlackBerry to keep making BB10 phones and developing the BB10 OS, at staggering losses, for a small group of people?

    They've already agreed to provide support and security patches.
    You're making it sound like it's not all that bad. Support and security patches don't do much for an app that ceases to work because it hasn't been updated (because it's no longer supported for OS10).
    So there will be two security patches this year. What about next year?
    It is what it is, but it's not cheerful.
    _____________________________
    And what it is, is: IT'S OVER folks.
    Quit dreaming and fantasizing about an OS that will never be.
    OS10 is not going to get any better and 2 to 3 years from now, if not sooner, most here will be using Android OS or iOS phones.


    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by Velocitymj; 01-06-16 at 01:12 AM.
    01-06-16 12:48 AM
  4. thurask's Avatar
    I don't know..... Take a million (or whatever) BB users there are out there and offer an upgrade package for $500 and you'd have $0.5 billion to play with - maybe develop key BB10 apps in house, and make other improvements (e.g., camera software)?

    When BB10 came out there were so many people on this site trashing it (which probably didn't help sales !), and now I think a lot are coming to the realization that BB10 is actually very, very good. I mean, have you seen the calendar app on an Android?!!? Can you really multi-task without that silly split screen, pull files and attach them out of a file manager, use a real Hub, use RFA, and Blend? Sure - there are probably work arounds and apps galore at Google Play, but at the cost of battery draining and who knows what else - and it still isn't a smooth and coordinated. as BB10...... Take the BB users, do a survey on what apps they "have to have", prioritize them and develop them in house, then turn around and sell a package - maybe so much an app? ...... The BB customers who know the value of BB10, and are secure in not having access to thousands of meaningless apps might go for this.
    First, given how fickle and entitled some of the squeakier wheels are here, you'd end up with much less than $500/user. "It's too expensive", "It should be free", "I don't have to pay $500 for other platforms", would be common (and sometimes justified) complaints. Furthermore, even if they did miraculously end up with $500 million, I doubt they'd spend it on propping up a dying platform when they can spend it on known quantities: BES, strategic acquisitions, etc. I doubt that they are completely out of the woods yet with regards to their financial outlook.

    Next, while I'm typing this, I'm copying files off of my home FTP server, running an update check on my Raspberry Pi over SSH and listening to REM, but I'm on a Priv with 15 hours remaining on 49% battery. Apparently this is sorcery. I will give you Blend, though. That is the one thing I miss deeply from BB10.

    Given BlackBerry's dwindling employee roster and abject incompetence when it comes to their first party ecosystem (Facebook, I'm looking at you), I would not be optimistic if BlackBerry were to take over development of a few dozen popular apps. They have tried this in the past (remember that Netflix bar file? Native Instagram rumors?), and even when they had cash to splash, developers gave them the cold shoulder.

    With regards to your point about BlackBerry 10 being good enough for you, I take it you don't have any apps provisioned by your employer, since I doubt you would be proud of the inability to easily access thousands of so-called useless apps if you need them to work. Or if you're unhappy with the app offerings available on BlackBerry 10; I do not miss BlackBerry 10's Reddit apps one bit.

    Adding the caveat of "no workarounds" only complicates matters. One could, in theory, obviate the lack of a required app with something like the Google Play Store, but that has its own issues. For one, the intricacies of the Android runtime mean the population of Android 4.3 compatible apps that do not require Google services will diminish over time. I am quite interested in a Maclean's Magazine APK prior to the update that broke BB10 compatibility, for one. And, more importantly, the average user has neither the time, nor the patience, nor the capacity to do a workaround. Why bother with something that might work and takes time when competing platforms have it all right there?

    Continuing.... OK - so let's say BB has provided all the phones that they ever will that run on BB10. Now just focus on software - BB10 enhancements - for those who understand and appreciate BB10. (BB can sell Android phones like the Priv if they want to stay in the hardware business.). Depending on what could be made available I would rather buy that from BB World, or buy an BB10 upgrade, than go get a Priv or an S6 and then look back and think "what the s*** did I just blow $700 on when I was better off with my Z30 with all the apps that I need?".... And then put the Priv in the drawer and go back to my Z30..... And I am not so sure that BB couldn't do an end run on the Android developers by developing really advanced apps for those in diifferent professions - like medicine/health care, transportation, business, legal, engineering, etc. - become the truly professional leader in smart phone technology. I mean - Candy Crush?? - believe it or not, not everyone gives a damn about it. I think that there are a lot of BB users that are more mature than playing silly games and spending hours on Facebook.
    While the case for substantive further support for BB10 is a glass half empty, BlackBerry have committed to at least two minor updates, 10.3.3 and 10.3.4. Time will tell if they will actually mean something in the end.

    And as for your point about BlackBerry developing professional apps: again, if my doctor would have to choose between some popular Android/iOS medical app and the port created by BlackBerry, I would be severely alarmed if BlackBerry's native app developers would have any control over the process.

    I do understand and appreciate BB10, I used it exclusively from the Z10's launch to the Priv's launch. I also understand that the phone-buying public has left it behind, since exceedingly few people are satisfied with the ecosystem it has to offer. As instant messaging, social media and the Internet of things slowly burrow their way into our daily lives, BB10 will become the domain of people who have their interns do all of that for them.

    To summarize, BB10 is a marvelously engineered bullet train, but with no tracks.

    I'll give you the courtesy of assuming you are joking.

    BlackBerry has been my primary device since the 7100i in 2006. I've used and owned almost every device since. I only finally switched away my primary device from the Passport SE in November when I bought the Priv, although I still manage and use a number of BB10 devices on a daily basis.

    Lately, I have been extolling the virtues of the Priv, because I think it's an incredible device.

    I also think BlackBerry has done the only logical move by putting BB10 out to pasture after losing billions of dollars on it.
    I am reminded of the old Vulcan proverb: "Only Nixon could go to China".
    01-06-16 12:54 AM
  5. nico6's Avatar
    BlackBerry has said (relatively) very little since BB10 was released. Why would they start now?

    Posted via CB10
    01-06-16 01:33 AM
  6. prateek.samtani's Avatar
    To be dead honest about it,

    Even android phones would be not selling well after this Priv.

    Simple, BlackBerry apps aren't great except maybe hub. Don't mention BBM it still lacks basic features.

    Regards to BlackBerry 10, while android runtime upgrade is not possible but maybe making it perfect is possible with opening more api for developers to use for official apps.

    But don't expect to see any BlackBerry 10 phones after 2016 and probably no BlackBerry phone after 2017.

    First Co. I saw that had a following, backing, money and talent but still fail to understand what is wrong (Apps?)

    Android isn't crap. You can have your own version and provide the experience. Just that they accepted android quite late.

    Posted via CB10
    01-06-16 02:18 AM
  7. BB_PP's Avatar
    So OP, what is the alternative? You want BlackBerry to keep making BB10 phones and developing the BB10 OS, at staggering losses, for a small group of people?

    They've already agreed to provide support and security patches.
    There is no harm by carrying BB10 on panel! BB10 is already a developed OS and fluid. There should be option that you can switch to BB10 or Android. In this scenario BlackBerry can save their .5% loyal users and add more consumer from both world

    Posted via Priv...
    01-06-16 03:28 AM
  8. Richard Buckley's Avatar
    Yes, typo.

    I still do not see any light at the end of the BB10 tunnel.

    When asked how long he needs to maintain BB10, Chen stated at Code/Mobile in October that: For the next year at least I need to".

    I'm not sure how else to interpret that. That is not rumour-mongering or speculation.

    Only one or two security/maintenance patches have been committed to, and there is no advancement of the Android Runtime in 10.3.3. We know much of the development team is no longer with BlackBerry, and that some (not all) of the development tools have gone EOL. These are all facts.

    None of this stops us from enjoying our devices for as long as we wish. I'm not depressed. I prefer to be realistically informed.
    It is the interpretation that people keep putting on things that is frustrating. For example only one or two security / maintenance patches... rather than quoting what was published by BlackBerry and letting your reader interpret that for themselves. The semantic drift of one person interpreting the official message in their own words, then a second person re-interpreting the first person, and so on, starts to look like the childrens' game of broken telephone.

    BlackBerry has committed to two releases of security and privacy enhancements. Maybe to you that means the same thing as security / maintenance patches, but to me it doesn't.



    LeapSTR100-2/10.3.2.2876
    Superdupont 2_0 likes this.
    01-06-16 04:06 AM
  9. Sir Reaper's Avatar
    You folks are full of yourselves. BlackBerry has to run their business and make money. Stop acting like it's all about you. Whaaa Whaaa Whaaa.

    Posted from Jiggy's Priv. . .
    But it is all about us. We as the consumers are the ones bringing the money. If a company develops a reputation for being untrustworthy (Playbook and OS10 debacle and now OS10) then the consumers won't trust it and they will go elsewhere.

    Why BlackBerry? Because I can!
    01-06-16 05:17 AM
  10. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    But it is all about us. We as the consumers are the ones bringing the money. If a company develops a reputation for being untrustworthy (Playbook and OS10 debacle and now OS10) then the consumers won't trust it and they will go elsewhere.

    Why BlackBerry? Because I can!
    STORM > PlayBook > Z10 w/ BB10......does seem to be a pattern there.
    anon(9742832) likes this.
    01-06-16 07:25 AM
  11. Valker's Avatar
    Well.... your analogy is neat, but not right. A bullet train with no tracks to me means a bullet train that doesn't run. I think BB10 runs great - much better than my wife's S6 which I have spent a lot of time with - thinking that maybe the Priv could work for me.

    There is a thread on here from this guy who wants to buy out BB10. I work at a university and talk to our IT people about app development and they say that it really isn't that hard or expensive to do. I would like to see BB10 be develped further as a professional user platform - yes, only supporting a niche market - with internally developed apps for various professions as well as the "must have" social and other apps etc. I am not convinced at this point that that would not be economically viable - no it won't compare anywhere close to Android and iPhone in sales, but so what. If BB doesn't proceed down this route, this guy might have a good idea.
    01-06-16 07:26 AM
  12. conite's Avatar
    There is a thread on here from this guy who wants to buy out BB10. I work at a university and talk to our IT people about app development and they say that it really isn't that hard or expensive to do. I would like to see BB10 be develped further as a professional user platform - yes, only supporting a niche market - with internally developed apps for various professions as well as the "must have" social and other apps etc. I am not convinced at this point that that would not be economically viable - no it won't compare anywhere close to Android and iPhone in sales, but so what. If BB doesn't proceed down this route, this guy might have a good idea.
    Another problem with this is that most people only want to haul around one device. BYOD has proven that.

    Having to carry around one device to run a handful of specialised apps, and another one for everything else is a pain.
    01-06-16 07:37 AM
  13. KemKev's Avatar
    We kept BlackBerry's head above water these past 3 years by buying into their brand new OS10 phones. But now that they realize they'll never be profitable, we're left in quite the lurch. I know these phones won't "stop working" because of ended support aside from security updates, but man it upsets me, how we receive no official message from BlackBerry that BB10 will not be developed and improved anymore. It leaves some people wondering and hoping for a cool new update with new features and a new look, because some people are less informed about what's going on. Anyone who isn't a member of a site like CB pretty much won't know that their phone is now on its way to being outdated even if they just bought it yesterday!
    Sometimes, in a relationship, things do not work out even though the "girl" (or "guy" for that matter) may have been really attractive and cool. However, we move on. It is dysfunctional to spend time moping over what might have been and no "official apology" or "thanks" needs to be offered. Our affair with BB10 is a bit like that. No matter how cool we think BB10 is, the market doesn't share our admiration. One could say the relationship with the market is at best strained; some would say non-existent. As a company, BBRY had to evolve and continue to evolve to attract more admirers to give its hardware division a fighting chance. It may not work, but it has to try. I don't believe the company owes core users a thanks and/or an apology for doing what it has to do. Its just business with a responsibility to shareholders.
    01-06-16 09:14 AM
  14. Jimberry Storm's Avatar
    Would you rather them stick to BB10 and sink the ship altogether. They are trying o get the beloved BB10 features on the android OS, so its not like "see ya bye". I don't like it for two reasons, I have used android, Ugh no thanks, and I LOVE my Z30. But maybe if they rise to the top or middle of the pack again they can set the tone and maybe revisit the issue, I hope.
    01-06-16 09:27 AM
  15. conite's Avatar
    I don't believe the company owes core users a thanks and/or an apology for doing what it has to do. Its just business with a responsibility to shareholders.
    I would add that I have received full value from my devices, and have enjoyed the BB10 ride while it lasted. If anything, I would say thank you to BlackBerry for giving it a go - given that the whole exercise was a long shot at best.

    I actually will miss all the workarounds. As a tinkerer, I got a lot of pleasure from sideloading, debug tokens, and patching. I will miss the leaks most of all! Shout out to Sachesi and Darcy's Tools!
    kbz1960 and KemKev like this.
    01-06-16 09:29 AM
  16. rajan_kava's Avatar
    So OP, what is the alternative? You want BlackBerry to keep making BB10 phones and developing the BB10 OS, at staggering losses, for a small group of people?

    They've already agreed to provide support and security patches.
    I personally think that BB10 is superb and most productive OS in the market but BlackBerry has guts to make advertising and marketing like Samsung and apple. So many people in the world doesn't know the features and benefits of BB10 till today. BlackBerry cannot profitable unless they invest in advertising and marketing of Android device. Samsung and other Chinese device maker will eat rest of BlackBerry Business which BlackBerry have right now just with BB10. BlackBerry (Mr. Chen) is foolish to took decision to make android device where everyone is making android device from cost of Rs. 5K to 55K. What BlackBerry can give extra with Android which others cannot give..?? BlackBerry must have to develop and improve their own BB10 with new features and functions.

    Posted via My Z10 - STL100-1
    01-06-16 10:00 AM
  17. conite's Avatar
    I personally think that BB10 is superb and most productive OS in the market but BlackBerry has guts to make advertising and marketing like Samsung and apple. So many people in the world doesn't know the features and benefits of BB10 till today. BlackBerry cannot profitable unless they invest in advertising and marketing of Android device. Samsung and other Chinese device maker will eat rest of BlackBerry Business which BlackBerry have right now just with BB10. BlackBerry (Mr. Chen) is foolish to took decision to make android device where everyone is making android device from cost of Rs. 5K to 55K. What BlackBerry can give extra with Android which others cannot give..?? BlackBerry must have to develop and improve their own BB10 with new features and functions.

    Posted via My Z10 - STL100-1
    BlackBerry could put every penny of the two billion it has left in cash into advertising, and it wouldn't sell enough to keep the lights on.
    01-06-16 10:06 AM
  18. RyanGermann's Avatar
    So OP, what is the alternative? You want BlackBerry to keep making BB10 phones and developing the BB10 OS, at staggering losses, for a small group of people?
    You're rhetorical question is predicated on the idea that there is no possible business model that could sustain BB10 OS and device development. Simply put, BlackBerry didn't put their best effort into it, and the question still remains if their best effort could be good enough i.e. do they have competent sales and marketing strategists? That very idea that BlackBerry's board of directors, executive and third-party contractors did everything possible and correctly to execute the BB10 GTM strategy is hyperbole.
    lift likes this.
    01-06-16 10:08 AM
  19. brookie229's Avatar
    I actually will miss all the workarounds. As a tinkerer, I got a lot of pleasure from sideloading, debug tokens, and patching. I will miss the leaks most of all! Shout out to Sachesi and Darcy's Tools!
    Being a long-time WebOs sufferer this is also what I will miss when I eventually move on BUT just check out the huge number of work-arounds, patches etc etc we are going to go through now. If you thought it was a tinkers paradise before, you 'aint seen nothin' yet lol.
    01-06-16 10:12 AM
  20. conite's Avatar
    Being a long-time WebOs sufferer this is also what I will miss when I eventually move on BUT just check out the huge number of work-arounds, patches etc etc we are going to go through now. If you thought it was a tinkers paradise before, you 'aint seen nothin' yet lol.
    I agree! But at least with Android it is about choice, not necessity.
    01-06-16 10:14 AM
  21. conite's Avatar
    You're rhetorical question is predicated on the idea that there is no possible business model that could sustain BB10 OS and device development. Simply put, BlackBerry didn't put their best effort into it, and the question still remains if their best effort could be good enough i.e. do they have competent sales and marketing strategists? That very idea that BlackBerry's board of directors, executive and third-party contractors did everything possible and correctly to execute the BB10 GTM strategy is hyperbole.
    If you assume that BB10 wasn't dead before it was launched (which in hindsight is what I believe now), and it really did in fact matter what management did after that, then OK. But we are where we are now - way past the tipping point.
    Dunt Dunt Dunt likes this.
    01-06-16 10:16 AM
  22. GadgetTravel's Avatar
    BlackBerry could put every penny of the two billion it has left in cash into advertising, and it wouldn't sell enough to keep the lights on.
    Samsung, Apple, Google and Microsoft are each about 100 times the size of BB. BB isn't going to win an advertising war with any of them.
    KemKev likes this.
    01-06-16 10:16 AM
  23. brookie229's Avatar
    Yes, but with Android it is about choice, not necessity.
    Oh-I think you misunderstood, or maybe I was not clear. I was not referring to android in any way, I was referring to me doing what I did with WebOs for a year or 2, patching etc just as I will again with my BB10 device. In the immortal words of Yogi Berra "It's deja vu all over again"!
    01-06-16 10:18 AM
  24. GadgetTravel's Avatar
    You're rhetorical question is predicated on the idea that there is no possible business model that could sustain BB10 OS and device development. Simply put, BlackBerry didn't put their best effort into it, and the question still remains if their best effort could be good enough i.e. do they have competent sales and marketing strategists? That very idea that BlackBerry's board of directors, executive and third-party contractors did everything possible and correctly to execute the BB10 GTM strategy is hyperbole.
    BB10 was done by 2010. The market had coalesced by then and they weren't part of it.
    01-06-16 10:18 AM
  25. conite's Avatar
    Oh-I think you misunderstood, or maybe I was not clear. I was not referring to android in any way, I was referring to me doing what I did with WebOs for a year or 2, patching etc just as I will again with my BB10 device. In the immortal words of Yogi Berra "It's deja vu all over again"!
    Gotcha! I agree. It will be fun!
    01-06-16 10:21 AM
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