12-01-16 07:51 PM
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  1. JeepBB's Avatar
    I'm trying to find where Newfangled offered anything more than the inarguably-correct observation that regarding this question, no one can offer anything beyond speculation.
    I believe we differ on the definition of "speculation".

    Mine would include assessing what we do know in order to infer the likely future course of events. If a body of evidence all points in the same direction, it is possible to speculate on what is the most likely next step or even leap ahead to the most likely conclusion.

    Ignoring what has already been written, or assuming all outcomes are equally probable... that's not speculation, that's guessing!

    Nonetheless, I have my answer, it will require an explicit BB statement before NF's Threshold of Proof is reached.... Which is fine, my threshold is set differently.
    Mecca EL likes this.
    10-07-16 01:36 AM
  2. JeepBB's Avatar
    Do you really want to claim that BB10's chances of being licensed to a third party are the same as you successfully guessing my password (a picture password, btw) on the first attempt?

    I understand the difference between improbable and impossible. No need to be patronizing.

    Posted from my Q10 via CB10
    I'm pretty sure he was trying to say that many people would view certain outcomes as very, very improbable ... but are near-impossible to calculate. And people, being people, tend to lazily use the shorthand of "never" (or "certain" for the other extreme) instead of dwelling on incalculable probabilities.

    A password is probably easier to guess than you think... And again, it's because people are lazy. It's why machine-generated passwords are the rule in the space I've spent most of my working life. But I digress...
    Last edited by JeepBB; 10-07-16 at 02:27 AM.
    Mecca EL likes this.
    10-07-16 01:46 AM
  3. David Tyler's Avatar
    I believe we differ on the definition of "speculation".
    I doubt it.

    I suspect what Newfangled objects to has much less to do with weight of evidence, reasoning, or perceived probability of outcomes and a lot more to do with the pervasive tone of sneering, know-it-all ridicule in so many posts regarding BlackBerry 10.

    There's something to be said for a the response, "Well, if you can't stand the snark, get out of the chat room;" and the flailing, futile negativity and mockery is in fact why I started limiting my CrackBerry reading to infrequent looks at and posts in the BBM and 9900 forums -- with very rare forays elsewhere.

    As Newfangled points out, "In the end, it's just a phone."

    Please do carry on -- I've said my piece!

    Passport SE: All the snooty prestige of a device with a precious metal in the name at less than half the price!
    anon(6038817) likes this.
    10-07-16 06:59 AM
  4. JeepBB's Avatar
    Please do carry on -- I've said my piece!
    Thanks, with that endorsement, I'm sure that I will.
    10-07-16 07:15 AM
  5. anon(6038817)'s Avatar
    Thanks, with that endorsement, I'm sure that I will.
    Extinguishing the spark of BlackBerry 10 hope one post at a time.

    Sorry, pal. My spark is still shining brightly.

    Posted from my Q10 via CB10
    David Tyler likes this.
    10-07-16 07:33 AM
  6. JeepBB's Avatar
    Extinguishing the spark of BlackBerry 10 hope one post at a time.

    Sorry, pal. My spark is still shining brightly.
    Heh, reality, like gravity, will always win and get you in the end!

    I think you give me far too much credit. It's John Chen and the markets that have extinguished the spark of BB10 hope.

    There is definitely a side of me that hopes you're right... that BB might actually get the girl at the end of the movie (to muddle my metaphors) ... but... I'm too much of a hardened realist to have much belief in that outcome.

    But, I think we're good. We disagree on the likely future for BB10 and have posted our respective reasoning. That's surely the purpose of a discussion forum, isn't it?
    Mecca EL likes this.
    10-07-16 08:09 AM
  7. anon(6038817)'s Avatar
    Heh, reality, like gravity, will always win and get you in the end!

    I think you give me far too much credit. It's John Chen and the markets that have extinguished the spark of BB10 hope.

    There is definitely a side of me that hopes you're right... that BB might actually get the girl at the end of the movie (to muddle my metaphors) ... but... I'm too much of a hardened realist to have much belief in that outcome.

    But, I think we're good. We disagree on the likely future for BB10 and have posted our respective reasoning. That's surely the purpose of a discussion forum, isn't it?
    I have no delusions about what is or isn't likely to happen with BB10. I'm just pointing out that nobody (outside of BlackBerry management) knows with absolute certainty what WILL happen. So let the BB10 fans have their hope. It doesn't harm anyone.

    I like rooting for the underdog.

    Posted from my Q10 via CB10
    10-07-16 08:15 AM
  8. valer466's Avatar
    But if these licensee subscribe to the robustness of the OS and its potential at the hardware level, application developers should jump on the bandwagon. Of course, the initial ones would be from the licensee or their group of partners...

    Is it difficult to develop on BB10 platform compared to iOS or Android? If the barrier to entry is as easy or easier, it should gain traction quite well...

    It all depends on execution of course...which we know wasn't BB's forte in the (how long?) past...or is...

    BlackBerry Passport via CB10
    What is it exactly that android, Wp, iOS cant do in day to day real life that BB10 can do?

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    10-07-16 10:17 AM
  9. David Tyler's Avatar
    ...There is definitely a side of me that hopes you're right... that BB might actually get the girl at the end of the movie (to muddle my metaphors) ...
    That made me laugh out loud. Well played, sir. I think it's actually a great metaphor for the current situation.



    Passport SE: All the snooty prestige of a device with a precious metal in the name at less than half the price!
    JeepBB likes this.
    10-07-16 12:28 PM
  10. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    So let the BB10 fans have their hope. It doesn't harm anyone.
    If it's held out as hope, then you're right - it doesn't harm anyone. But when it's held out as fact, when it's actually very unlikely, then IMO it does harm some people, who may naively plan around something that won't happen. Hope shouldn't be turned into misinformation. And I'm not directing this comment specifically to you - I'm just saying this "in general." A number of people insist that BB10 has a future, that "enterprise and government still needs it", that new devices are coming, etc. etc. when we all can be fairly certain that isn't going to happen - and having people spread FALSE hope absolutely can hurt people.
    JeepBB and Mecca EL like this.
    10-07-16 12:34 PM
  11. anon(6038817)'s Avatar
    If it's held out as hope, then you're right - it doesn't harm anyone. But when it's held out as fact, when it's actually very unlikely, then IMO it does harm some people, who may naively plan around something that won't happen. Hope shouldn't be turned into misinformation. And I'm not directing this comment specifically to you - I'm just saying this "in general." A number of people insist that BB10 has a future, that "enterprise and government still needs it", that new devices are coming, etc. etc. when we all can be fairly certain that isn't going to happen - and having people spread FALSE hope absolutely can hurt people.
    I get what you mean by "false hope".

    I always tell people never to buy any device based on what they think or hope it might be able to do at some point in the future. Get a device based on what it can do NOW. If what it does now isn't good enough for you, then don't get it. Simple.

    There is a good chance you will find many people in the CrackBerry Forums - forums created by and for BlackBerry fans - who appreciate and want what BB10 can do now, regardless of its future.

    That said, insisting that BB10 has no future - when you are only "fairly certain" that it doesn't - can needlessly lead people away from a great and unique platform that is still currently supported by BlackBerry, due to receive further OS updates, and being actively considered for licensing to third parties. Pointing out these facts does not give "false hope". It is simply to point out that BB10 is still around and still a viable option. Even if BlackBerry EOL'd it tomorrow, its core functionality would continue to work for some time - years if the remaining BBOS diehards are any indication.

    Wanting to avoid giving people "false hope" is one thing. Stating your opinion that BB10 "has no future" as if it is an undisputed fact is another thing entirely.
    Mecca EL likes this.
    10-07-16 01:39 PM
  12. keliew's Avatar
    What is it exactly that android, Wp, iOS cant do in day to day real life that BB10 can do?

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    That's like asking, what is it exactly that a train, a bus and a Ferrari can't do to travel from point A to B in real life that a VW can do?

    Or, any thing for that matter, from utensils to clothings to lightbulbs...

    We can't be that dumb...

    BlackBerry Passport via CB10
    10-07-16 03:15 PM
  13. Halifax Guy's Avatar
    No updates i believe. Just keeping using it until the apps are too old.
    I don't need any stinking apps for what I use my phone for, that is to call people. Everything else is gravy and as everyone knows, gravy dries up and becomes dust after awhile.

    Posted using a Q10, 10.3.2.2474.
    10-07-16 04:27 PM
  14. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    I get what you mean by "false hope".

    I always tell people never to buy any device based on what they think or hope it might be able to do at some point in the future. Get a device based on what it can do NOW. If what it does now isn't good enough for you, then don't get it. Simple.

    There is a good chance you will find many people in the CrackBerry Forums - forums created by and for BlackBerry fans - who appreciate and want what BB10 can do now, regardless of its future.
    This is excellent advice that I often give myself - and have given here more than once.

    That said, insisting that BB10 has no future - when you are only "fairly certain" that it doesn't - can needlessly lead people away from a great and unique platform that is still currently supported by BlackBerry, due to receive further OS updates, and being actively considered for licensing to third parties. Pointing out these facts does not give "false hope". It is simply to point out that BB10 is still around and still a viable option. Even if BlackBerry EOL'd it tomorrow, its core functionality would continue to work for some time - years if the remaining BBOS diehards are any indication.

    Wanting to avoid giving people "false hope" is one thing. Stating your opinion that BB10 "has no future" as if it is an undisputed fact is another thing entirely.
    While I disagree with your point in this case, given the amount of evidence to the contrary, I understand your position and I appreciate you being rational in your arguments.
    David Tyler and Mecca EL like this.
    10-07-16 04:42 PM
  15. anon(6038817)'s Avatar
    This is excellent advice that I often give myself - and have given here more than once.

    While I disagree with your point in this case, given the amount of evidence to the contrary, I understand your position and I appreciate you being rational in your arguments.
    You just interpret the available evidence differently than I do. Nothing wrong with that.
    David Tyler and Mecca EL like this.
    10-07-16 04:46 PM
  16. valer466's Avatar
    Umm. I owned 2 Passports. The only thing it could do that an unrooted & kernel tweak android can't do is play youtube/video with the app minimised.

    Android (rooted & kernel tweaked) can do the same & i've done it on 2 androids of mine. iOS I dunno...

    So, can you tell me what else does the BB10 o.s do that android or iOS can't?

    Is this what the BB10 fans call "real time multitasking ability" (plagued with heavy ram consumption and high battery drain, and 8 limit for open "windows")

    To me it's a over boost kind of a thing built in inside the stock OS. No big deal. Android tweaks acheive the same without RAM, battery issues and no limitation of number of apps being open.

    Deeply integrated O.S ? A crippled file explorer which can't do basic tasks that is a given in any android.

    Still don't get what makes BB10 more exclusive.
    10-24-16 07:52 AM
  17. ohaiguise's Avatar
    Umm. I owned 2 Passports. The only thing it could do that an unrooted & kernel tweak android can't do is play youtube/video with the app minimised.

    Android (rooted & kernel tweaked) can do the same & i've done it on 2 androids of mine. iOS I dunno...

    So, can you tell me what else does the BB10 o.s do that android or iOS can't?

    Is this what the BB10 fans call "real time multitasking ability" (plagued with heavy ram consumption and high battery drain, and 8 limit for open "windows")

    To me it's a over boost kind of a thing built in inside the stock OS. No big deal. Android tweaks acheive the same without RAM, battery issues and no limitation of number of apps being open.

    Deeply integrated O.S ? A crippled file explorer which can't do basic tasks that is a given in any android.

    Still don't get what makes BB10 more exclusive.
    Oh the irony of someone complaining about BB10 being a resource hog!

    It's not better than Android, but it's found to be easier to use by some because of the gestures. And a lot of people hate the clutter of Android apps 'terminating and staying resident' in the background - hogging up memory!
    10-24-16 08:12 AM
  18. anon(6038817)'s Avatar
    Umm. I owned 2 Passports. The only thing it could do that an unrooted & kernel tweak android can't do is play youtube/video with the app minimised.

    Android (rooted & kernel tweaked) can do the same & i've done it on 2 androids of mine. iOS I dunno...

    So, can you tell me what else does the BB10 o.s do that android or iOS can't?

    Is this what the BB10 fans call "real time multitasking ability" (plagued with heavy ram consumption and high battery drain, and 8 limit for open "windows")

    To me it's a over boost kind of a thing built in inside the stock OS. No big deal. Android tweaks acheive the same without RAM, battery issues and no limitation of number of apps being open.

    Deeply integrated O.S ? A crippled file explorer which can't do basic tasks that is a given in any android.

    Still don't get what makes BB10 more exclusive.
    How many Android users are going to root and hack their own device to get it to do those things? A very small percentage. Playing YT videos with app minimized and Active Frames are BB10 functionality that works out of the box.

    The BB10 file manager has integrated cloud storage (Box, OneDrive, Dropbox) on the OS level. That has come in handy more times than I can count.

    BB10 devices with physical keyboards have keyboard shortcuts that allow you to launch specific apps or auto-dial specified contacts with a single key press. They also allow you to more quickly use and navigate supported apps without having to touch the screen.

    The Hub in BB10 is still implemented far better than the Android equivalent. It is constantly running "behind" everything you do, so you never have to wait for it to load. It can easily be accessed with a simple gesture and "peeked" without having to minimize an app.

    There are more things I could list. But this is all subjective. One thing I consider an advantage another might consider pointless.

    It comes down to personal preference. Every phone has its strengths and weaknesses. Each person has to decide which strengths they want and which weaknesses they are willing to live with.
    10-24-16 08:17 AM
  19. valer466's Avatar
    hogging up memory!
    But not being force closed like an active frame!
    10-24-16 11:15 AM
  20. valer466's Avatar
    It comes down to personal preference. Every phone has its strengths and weaknesses. Each person has to decide which strengths they want and which weaknesses they are willing to live with.
    True that. I loved being able to chat on BBM channel chat, while simultanoeusly quick replying other BBM chat, another Whatsapp chat, and even looking and even checking a channel comment, replying to the comment and going back into my channel that was open...

    Can't seem to do this on the priv hub, as opening any bbm notification when you are on an existing task/chat/comment/channel etc , makes it go away incase i want to reply to something that pops up.

    This BB10 BBM implementation was definitely an added advantage over android bbm.
    anon(6038817) likes this.
    10-24-16 11:20 AM
  21. markmall's Avatar
    Maybe Prem Wasta will have a beautiful dream. He wakes up, fires Chen, fires the board of directors, hires back the 50 most important BB10 engineers, sends a singing telegram to Dan Dodge's house and announces that BlackBerry will be releasing the follow-ups to the Z30, Classic and Passport.

    Posted via CB10
    BEEBEEBEEBEE likes this.
    10-24-16 03:50 PM
  22. ohaiguise's Avatar
    But not being force closed like an active frame!
    All the native apps are so fast, it doesn't matter if they are stopped when fully closed. Perfect. BB10 feels more grown up than Android even although it's younger. It also feels like a more genuine *nix-like experience.
    10-25-16 05:10 AM
  23. conite's Avatar
    Umm. I owned 2 Passports. The only thing it could do that an unrooted & kernel tweak android can't do is play youtube/video with the app minimised.
    You don't need root to listen to youtube in the background.
    Mecca EL likes this.
    10-25-16 05:52 AM
  24. anon(6038817)'s Avatar
    You don't need root to listen to youtube in the background.
    You need YouTube Red, a paid service.

    Posted from my Q10 via CB10
    10-25-16 07:26 AM
  25. Soulstream's Avatar
    You need YouTube Red, a paid service.

    Posted from my Q10 via CB10
    True, but considering the popularity of Android, I believe this intentiona; limitation in the design of the youtube app (not the OS itself) to be ok. If they had no done that, I trully believe that lot of people would have been eating through their data plans like crazy due to leaving videos open in the background.

    I also believe that had BB10 been more popular, similar restrictions would have been implemented in some form.
    10-25-16 07:52 AM
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