12-01-16 08:51 PM
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  1. keliew's Avatar
    Whether it's RTOS or not shouldn't matter in terms of its success.

    Look at Windows, by design it wasn't meant for servers, but it grew and made business sense. Still, some people hate it.

    Linux is by design wasn't meant for desktops, but look at the plethora of desktop environment.

    Heck, PHP wasn't meant to be robust and secure...look at what it is now.

    BlackBerry Passport via CB10
    10-06-16 12:10 AM
  2. Vistaus's Avatar
    This idea that government, financial, etc.--those with security needs--can change anything with regard to to BlackBerry is not reality. It was these users that grew BlackBerry, yes, but there has never been a huge consumer demand for BlackBerry. I know. I was there using BlackBerry as my personal device when everyone else was using a BlackBerry (employer issued) or a regular mobile phone; and those using regular mobile phones or feature phones, in mass they went for iPhone and Android when those platforms came on the market. In my circle 9 out of 10 went iPhone and never used a BlackBerry, and the others went Android, never using a BlackBerry.

    What's more, those users people think are natural BlackBerry customers--government, etc--they have left or are leaving BlackBerry. If just these were sticking with BlackBerry, it would probably be enough, I think, but they aren't. I know from personal experience as I once carried a personal and an employer-issed BlackBerry. But if you travel, just look around. It has been this way for a number of years now. It's a big deal for me if I see a BlackBerry, and it happens now almost never.

    I make these observations with sadness. It brings me no glee to say these things.

    PassportSQW100-1/10.3.2.2876 (personal device), and some iPhone (employer issued, on enterprise)
    Even governments can be wary of BlackBerry. For example, here in the Dutch government a couple of years ago, there were a few politicians who had a BlackBerry and they weren't allowed to use them at first 'cause the security team had doubts about BlackBerry's security vs other phones. Eventually (a couple of months later) they got around though and accepted BlackBerries.

    I do see lots of BlackBerry's around on the streets here, but they are almost always BBOS7 phones and those users are almost always black people (not to sound stereotypical or anything, these are just my observations!).
    My mum has shown her Passport to quite some people (mostly strangers). They didn't know BlackBerry was still around but surprisingly, most of them were impressed by the Passport's design and BB10. I also have this experience but very few strangers ever talk to me so my mum is the biggest 'promoter' lol.

    Posted via CB10 using my amazing  ,Passport (OG Red)
    10-06-16 03:02 AM
  3. app_Developer's Avatar
    How do you know there won't be any licensees?
    How do I know that my company won't change their plans and just grant all of our current treasury to me?

    Ok, technically it is possible. They have never come out and ruled it out. But it makes absolutely no business, legal or moral sense. Therefore I can safely say it won't happen.

    Likewise for a 3rd party phone manufacturer to come in now and license BB10 seems to serve no purpose other than to lose money. So can we say it is impossible? Technically, no. It is, however, extremely improbable. Most businesses are at least trying to make money. And no not-for-profit will see BB10 as some social good that needs to be saved.
    DrBoomBotz, JeepBB, Uzi and 2 others like this.
    10-06-16 06:29 AM
  4. anon(6038817)'s Avatar
    You're right, I don't know it. It's only 99.9% certain - so there's still a chance.
    Your made-up percentage doesn't negate the fact that you don't know.

    Posted from my Q10 via CB10
    10-06-16 11:49 AM
  5. anon(6038817)'s Avatar
    How do I know that my company won't change their plans and just grant all of our current treasury to me?

    Ok, technically it is possible. They have never come out and ruled it out. But it makes absolutely no business, legal or moral sense. Therefore I can safely say it won't happen.

    Likewise for a 3rd party phone manufacturer to come in now and license BB10 seems to serve no purpose other than to lose money. So can we say it is impossible? Technically, no. It is, however, extremely improbable. Most businesses are at least trying to make money. And no not-for-profit will see BB10 as some social good that needs to be saved.
    Your analogy is invalid. You don't work for BlackBerry. You have no first-hand knowledge of their internal affairs. No knowledge of any third-party licensee agreements in the works or of the third parties who have expressed interest in BB10. You are making assumptions. You don't know.

    Posted from my Q10 via CB10
    David Tyler and anon(9721108) like this.
    10-06-16 11:52 AM
  6. whatsever's Avatar
    Yeh BB10 with android runtime 4.3 support LOL and you need the right hardware. I don't think this license will sell. I say rename it and get android runtime 6 support with miracast support and get a name like QNXOS 12 or just QOS X or QX
    10-06-16 03:21 PM
  7. keliew's Avatar
    To turn a company around isn't easy. It can work under the right leadership and team of executives.

    So even if it may seem improbable, it can happen.

    BlackBerry Passport via CB10
    10-06-16 03:24 PM
  8. JeepBB's Avatar
    Your analogy is invalid. You don't work for BlackBerry. You have no first-hand knowledge of their internal affairs. No knowledge of any third-party licensee agreements in the works or of the third parties who have expressed interest in BB10. You are making assumptions. You don't know.
    This would be "Denial" I'm guessing?

    Given the BB statements about BB10 support being limited to two security-focused updates, the first of which (10.3.3) is months overdue, the fact that BB stated in their open letter of about a year ago that BB10 development had ceased, the developer tools would not be maintained, the Android runtime would not be updated, and that most of the BB10 engineering staff had been let-go; the recent ER where Chen announced that BB wouldn't even be producing Android phones any more, and might not put into production the PKB Mercury; Chen stating that the Indonesian licensee (the only one) is building an Android phone (check the ER transcript); the fact that no BB10 phone has sold in appreciable numbers, and that BB10 has made nothing but losses for BB; etc, etc; what convinces you that BB10 will live on, or that any other company would want it?

    It surely cannot be vague statements like Pini's "I wouldn’t be surprised to see the software in another device,” he says. “But I couldn’t tell you when or where”.

    I am genuinely curious to know if your faith is unshakable. Is there a specific time-limit beyond which you'll accept that BB10 isn't coming back?

    Or is it really as simple as: you won't accept that BB10 is done until BB formally announce that it is?
    10-06-16 03:35 PM
  9. anon(6038817)'s Avatar
    This would be "Denial" I'm guessing?

    Given the BB statements about BB10 support being limited to two security-focused updates, the first of which (10.3.3) is months overdue, the fact that BB stated in their open letter of about a year ago that BB10 development had ceased, the developer tools would not be maintained, the Android runtime would not be updated, and that most of the BB10 engineering staff had been let-go; the recent ER where Chen announced that BB wouldn't even be producing Android phones any more, and might not put into production the PKB Mercury; Chen stating that the Indonesian licensee (the only one) is building an Android phone (check the ER transcript); the fact that no BB10 phone has sold in appreciable numbers, and that BB10 has made nothing but losses for BB; etc, etc; what convinces you that BB10 will live on, or that any other company would want it?

    It surely cannot be vague statements like Pini's "I wouldn’t be surprised to see the software in another device,” he says. “But I couldn’t tell you when or where”.

    I am genuinely curious to know if your faith is unshakable. Is there a specific time-limit beyond which you'll accept that BB10 isn't coming back?

    Or is it really as simple as: you won't accept that BB10 is done until BB formally announce that it is?
    You interpret the available facts differently than I do. That doesn't make you right. It doesn't make me right.

    Neither of us knows the future of BB10 with 100% certainty. So why is my opinion any less valid than yours?

    The CrackBerry Forums seem to have a handful of very vocal members who take perverse pleasure in gloating over the demise of BB10 and BackBerry's in-house handset business. They seem to enjoy talking down to those of us who still prefer BB10 devices (or, perish the thought, BBOS 7 or older devices). They openly mock those of us who believe BlackBerry leadership when they say they are actively exploring opportunities to license BB10 to third-parties and hold out hope that BB10 does have a future somewhere in the smartphone market.

    Why they feel compelled to spread negativity about BlackBerry products and sow discord among BlackBerry fans is puzzling to me. Perhaps they are super-fans who have become so bitter, so jaded, so utterly miserable because of BlackBerry's missed opportunities, squandered resources, and untapped potential over the past several years that they have made it their mission to drag others down to their wretched state? Maybe they have long since jumped to another platform from BB10, but are feeling a tinge of regret and trying to justify their decision by convincing others to abandon it, too? I can only speculate on their reasons.

    When somebody asks a legitimate question about how to resolve a problem they are having with a BB10 device, or a question about the future of BB10 - on the most popular BlackBerry fan forum in the world - responses like "get a new phone, BB10 is dead" or "you still use BB10?" are not helpful. They serve no useful purpose. And the fact that they are coming from other so-called BlackBerry fans is just despicable.

    I know BlackBerry messed up. I know their in-house handset business failed. I know BB10 is a stagnant platform.

    But guess what? In spite of all its shortcomings and uncertain future, I like BB10. I like the devices I own that run BB10. I use a BB10 phone as my daily driver. I have used devices from every major platform - most recently an iPhone SE - and always come back to BlackBerry 10 as my daily driver. I think it's a fantastic mobile platform that does more of the things that are important to me in a smartphone more efficiently and intuitively than other mobile platforms.

    And more than that, I do believe with the right management and licensing agreements, it is not out of the realm of possibility that we could see BB10 running on a new device in the future.

    Yes, it really is this simple: I won't accept that BB10 is done until it is listed on this page with end of sales and support dates:

    Software Support Lifecycle - United States

    Regardless, my BB10 devices will continue to function for years and I intend to enjoy them as long as possible or until something else comes along that matches the unique features they offer. And there's nothing any of the BB10 haters can do about it.

    In general, I always err on the side of the glass being half full instead of half empty.

    Living your life in an perpetual state of pessimism and doubt is no way to live.

    In the end, it's just a phone. This is all just a tempest in a teapot. Get the phone you want and be happy. And it's okay to let others get the phone they want and be happy, too, even if they choose differently or believe differently than you.

    End of rant. Mic dropped.
    10-06-16 04:38 PM
  10. app_Developer's Avatar
    Your analogy is invalid. You don't work for BlackBerry. You have no first-hand knowledge of their internal affairs. No knowledge of any third-party licensee agreements in the works or of the third parties who have expressed interest in BB10. You are making assumptions. You don't know.
    Which 3rd parties have expressed interest in licensing BB10? Why on earth would any 3rd party want to do this?
    10-06-16 04:41 PM
  11. anon(6038817)'s Avatar
    Which 3rd parties have expressed interest in licensing BB10? Why on earth would any 3rd party want to do this?
    You'll have to ask BlackBerry for the answer to your first question and ask the third parties themselves for the answer to your second one.

    Posted from my Q10 via CB10
    10-06-16 04:45 PM
  12. David Tyler's Avatar
    I am genuinely curious to know if your faith is unshakable. Is there a specific time-limit beyond which you'll accept that BB10 isn't coming back?
    I'm trying to find where Newfangled offered anything more than the inarguably-correct observation that regarding this question, no one can offer anything beyond speculation.
    Last edited by David Tyler; 10-06-16 at 05:52 PM.
    anon(6038817) likes this.
    10-06-16 05:20 PM
  13. David Tyler's Avatar
    Living your life in an perpetual state of pessimism and doubt is no way to live.
    Let's not be so hasty -- pessimism and doubt (let's not forget bitterness) are apparently the ONLY way to live for many.

    Get the phone you want and be happy. And it's okay to let others get the phone they want and be happy, too
    That's just crazy talk.
    10-06-16 05:24 PM
  14. app_Developer's Avatar
    You'll have to ask BlackBerry for the answer to your first question and ask the third parties themselves for the answer to your second one.
    The only thing I've read from BB on this is that they think there *could* be interest.

    Again, I think we're agreeing that it's not possible to exhaustively prove that no company on earth will ever try their hand at BB10. I just think that the probability of this event is negligible because of size/scope of demand and costs involved in resurrecting the program.

    Here's another example of improbable vs impossible: I could pick up your BB and guess your password in one shot. Does that mean your phone in not secure? Of course not. While you can't prove definitively that I won't guess your password in one shot, the probability of that is so ridiculously low that we can say your phone has secure authentication.
    JeepBB likes this.
    10-06-16 05:38 PM
  15. anon(6038817)'s Avatar
    The only thing I've read from BB on this is that they think there *could* be interest.

    Again, I think we're agreeing that it's not possible to exhaustively prove that no company on earth will ever try their hand at BB10. I just think that the probability of this event is negligible because of size/scope of demand and costs involved in resurrecting the program.

    Here's another example of improbable vs impossible: I could pick up your BB and guess your password in one shot. Does that mean your phone in not secure? Of course not. While you can't prove definitively that I won't guess your password in one shot, the probability of that is so ridiculously low that we can say your phone has secure authentication.
    Do you really want to claim that BB10's chances of being licensed to a third party are the same as you successfully guessing my password (a picture password, btw) on the first attempt?

    I understand the difference between improbable and impossible. No need to be patronizing.

    Posted from my Q10 via CB10
    10-06-16 05:45 PM
  16. app_Developer's Avatar
    Do you really want to claim that BB10's chances of being licensed to a third party are the same as you successfully guessing my password (a picture password, btw) on the first attempt?

    I understand the difference between improbable and impossible. No need to be patronizing.
    I don't think the probabilities are equal (only one is even directly calculable obviously), but I do think both are so low that we can say both are negligible.

    Look, at the end of the day you want to hold out hope that this might happen because you just love the OS that much. That's fine, I can understand that. I just hope you understand that when other people say it's not going to happen, it doesn't mean they are saying it's provably impossible. What they and I are saying it's so unlikely that we're just not going see it actually happen.
    10-06-16 06:09 PM
  17. anon(6038817)'s Avatar
    I don't think the probabilities are equal (only one is even directly calculable obviously), but I do think both are so low that we can say both are negligible.

    Look, at the end of the day you want to hold out hope that this might happen because you just love the OS that much. That's fine, I can understand that. I just hope you understand that when other people say it's not going to happen, it doesn't mean they are saying it's provably impossible. What they and I are saying it's so unlikely that we're just not going see it actually happen.
    I'm totally fine with that explanation. It's very reasonable. But my rant wasn't directed at reasonable people.

    It's the people who use absolutes like "never", "dead", etc. when discussing BB10 and its future that I'm calling out. Those who know just as much as everyone else about it but make such absolute claims as if they are fact.

    Posted from my Q10 via CB10
    10-06-16 06:46 PM
  18. howarmat's Avatar
    bb10 is dead and buried....i have proof!

    No hardware = No BB10 development?-download.png
    JeepBB and werkregen like this.
    10-06-16 06:58 PM
  19. David Tyler's Avatar
    Well, if that's not proof, Newfangled...
    10-06-16 08:43 PM
  20. anon(6038817)'s Avatar
    Well, if that's not proof, Newfangled...
    Seems legit.



    Posted from my Q10 via CB10
    10-06-16 08:48 PM
  21. anon(9721108)'s Avatar
    wow I'm convinced, I have to throw away my Phone and cut all ties with Blackberry after seeing that.

    *sniff*

    "The 99's charms will tug at your heart. Nothing else ever approached such exquisite perfection"-idssteve
    10-06-16 08:56 PM
  22. HaberNik's Avatar
    WebOS, BB10 and the Pontiac Fiero....LOL

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    For me it was the Isuzu Impulse! I loved that car...

    Posted via CB10
    10-06-16 11:09 PM
  23. HaberNik's Avatar
    bb10 is dead and buried....i have proof!

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Such a shame, and so young...

    Posted via CB10
    10-06-16 11:09 PM
  24. LokWaiYeen's Avatar
    No updates i believe. Just keeping using it until the apps are too old.
    10-07-16 01:14 AM
  25. keliew's Avatar
    Am so glad some people here aren't in (any company's) management or executives. If they are, it'd be doomed.

    BlackBerry Passport via CB10
    David Tyler and anon(6038817) like this.
    10-07-16 01:25 AM
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