Built for Business - Learn more about BlackBerry KEY2
07-28-14 05:17 AM
50 12
tools
  1. FireChestApps's Avatar
    BlackBerry will continue to rule the corporate landscape for many years to come. There have been some interesting articles about the competition's software running the batteries of iPhones flat in a few hours, or iPhone/Android users concerned that administrators are running amok through their private files. Enough problems to get users to ask for a BlackBerry handset for work.

    And "trust" is about to become the next big thing given how much of our lives are in our phones and on the cloud. Companies already value it and it's only a matter of time before it comes to the consumer environment in a big way. One only has to read stories of how all sorts of devices connected to the internet are being hacked to realise that it's only going to get worse. BlackBerry 10 is built from the ground up to leverage security/trust and native apps inherit it, in spades.

    And while the BlackBerry 10 user-base continues to grow, robust and elegant native apps will continue to be produced for BlackBerry 10 by a handful of developers regardless of the limited ability to run Android apps. The handset user-base only has to reach a specific critical mass of users before the native app scene will suddenly explode with development. Let me explain.

    iOS and Android have a large user base but it's already gone past the sweet spot and reached hyper-saturation. It requires a lot of work (time/money) now to produce something special on iOS/Android, and being found in their app store's amongst a zillion competitors with similar high quality apps is another exercise in futility. You need a lot of money and/or a lot of luck. If the investment/return ratio is unappealing then attrition will start to occur and development will slow down and plateau at some equilibrium point. You won't notice this because going from 10 million developers to 7 million developers is probably not going to make much difference to the 8 quality third-party apps you use on your phone.

    BlackBerry 10 on the other hand has not reached it's sweet spot; it's a jackpot waiting to happen. Compared to iOS/Android, many of the "top" apps in BlackBerry World are quite rudimentary. They could easily be made so much better at so little cost. Also the competition is almost non-existant. The only thing holding back developers is the return on investment. All we need right now is an increase in the handset user-base to get the return on investment to a level deemed acceptable by developers. The resultant explosion in development will then feedback and build the user-base in a positive feedback cycle. However because the BlackBerry 10 ecosystem wasn't first to arrive in the market, it will take longer to reach this critical mass of users. The increasing corporate take-up of handsets almost guarantees that it will be reached at some point.

    And when it does reach this critical mass, guess which developer is going to be sitting atop of this wave?
    Last edited by FireChestDotCom; 07-26-14 at 11:24 PM. Reason: Smiley added
    spyeagle, dikku11, baarn and 2 others like this.
    07-26-14 11:10 PM
  2. Raestloz's Avatar
    *raises hand*. And define 'works'? Works to me is not having to give up core design features of BlackBerry.

    If BlackBerry had built up a good native store *then* enabled android apps as well to steal further market share, then that would probably have been Ok (assuming some way of reconciling the app permission model to prioritise BlackBerry) . Maybe even clever.
    Let's stop with "Android ruined BlackBerry World" band here.

    Because seriously? Even with Android support, how many big name apps even bothered to drop their Android ports on BlackBerry World?

    Admit it: even with Android support, BlackBerry World still lacked big name apps, which means the issue does not lie with Android support, it lies with market share

    Z10 STL100-1/10.2.1.3247
    07-27-14 12:16 AM
  3. anon(8181885)'s Avatar
    The android support along with the z3 is to gain market share with enough market share developers will be encouraged to develop. No apps no one buys phone. Temporary giving access to apps while gaining market share will help. ACCESS IS KEY. Just give it time you guys are making irrational conclusions on app development. Having the amazon store is awesome people with have a reason to port there apps to bb, and develop native when they see there apps are being downloaded by bb10 users. It's a good strategy I see no other alternative if you drop android support people will say bb10 has no apps therefore no phones sold that give 0 incentive for developers.

    Posted via CB10
    07-27-14 12:21 AM
  4. bbzp's Avatar
    And its not all BB's fault. The users are just as responsible as many refuse to actually purchase apps or they can't due to their BlackBerry device being issued by their employer
    I agree. I'm curious to know how many people who complain about the lack of native apps actually pay for apps.

    BlackBerry should be the first to introduce paid updates for apps. This pay once for life is not sustainable for developers. Customers should be paying for major updates like they do for computer software. Bug fix updates should be free like computer software, but major version updates that introduce new or major improvements to the app should be paid updates.

    IMO BlackBerry's native app problem isn't the lack of market share. The problem is the profits for developers. With paid updates developers make ongoing profits, so they have an incentive to keep updating their apps. History has shown businesses can make money in niche markets if they have a sustainable business plan. IMO the more niche the market is the more it is required by the customer to pay for services because there are not enough customers to get enough ad revenue. I also hate ads, so I would rather pay for apps anyway.
    baarn likes this.
    07-27-14 01:46 AM
  5. thurask's Avatar
    No apps because of no demand. No demand because of no apps.

    You try to break that cycle.
    07-27-14 02:30 AM
  6. Raestloz's Avatar
    I'd say that Z10 was overpriced, that drove potential customers away, reducing demand

    But hindsight is 20/20

    Z10 STL100-1/10.2.1.3247
    07-27-14 05:04 AM
  7. SnoozerBold's Avatar
    I agree. I'm curious to know how many people who complain about the lack of native apps actually pay for apps.

    BlackBerry should be the first to introduce paid updates for apps. This pay once for life is not sustainable for developers. Customers should be paying for major updates like they do for computer software. Bug fix updates should be free like computer software, but major version updates that introduce new or major improvements to the app should be paid updates.

    IMO BlackBerry's native app problem isn't the lack of market share. The problem is the profits for developers. With paid updates developers make ongoing profits, so they have an incentive to keep updating their apps. History has shown businesses can make money in niche markets if they have a sustainable business plan. IMO the more niche the market is the more it is required by the customer to pay for services because there are not enough customers to get enough ad revenue. I also hate ads, so I would rather pay for apps anyway.
    Isn't that up to the developer though? I could be wrong o. This. I'm pretty sure I bought an app (a long time ago) and just recently a new update came you could get the update for fixes etc. But with out with new features and to get those features you had to pay 99 cents. I won't mention the app incase I'm wrong.

    And I did buy the update btw.

    Posted via CB10
    07-27-14 05:56 AM
  8. Richard Buckley's Avatar
    If it was a bb10 app, it would let me choose which permissions to grant. A well written app would then run within those limitations with whatever reduced capability.
    Anyway, how do I know looking at any particular app that it is legit and not just after my stuff? At least Google claims to analyse (by automation) all apps submitted to the play store. I haven't yet been able to determine if BlackBerry do so. But even this is far from infallible.
    Remember that BlackBerry trumpets security and app permissions are a core feature of it.

    But what if all I want to use the app for is to check my balance? Besides if I really was going to install a banking app, it would have to have been verifiably published by my bank and I would probably have a higher level of trust in it, in comparison to other random apps.
    Actually BlackBerry does, they use Trend Micro technology for this and mark each application with the Trend Micro logo.

    They use BlackBerry Guardian for BB10 native applications.

    Posted via CB10
    07-27-14 08:16 AM
  9. bbzp's Avatar
    Isn't that up to the developer though?
    I don't believe there is a built in paid update system. Developers have probably gone around this by doing their own way of paid updates, but I don't believe there is an official system.

    My overall point is that developers need an incentive to create apps and continue to support them. IMO I believe the reason why developers still prefer to create iPhone apps is because iPhone customers are more willing to pay for apps than other customers from other phones.

    We can't just hope that developers will start making native apps. We need to create an incentive for developers. This is why I prefer to use paid apps instead of free apps when I have the choice, and if there is a paid update system then developers can get ongoing income even though the BlackBerry community is smaller. If developers can get sustainable income from native apps then I believe it will motive more developers to create native apps.
    07-27-14 05:54 PM
  10. SnoozerBold's Avatar
    I don't believe there is a built in paid update system. Developers have probably gone around this by doing their own way of paid updates, but I don't believe there is an official system.

    My overall point is that developers need an incentive to create apps and continue to support them. IMO I believe the reason why developers still prefer to create iPhone apps is because iPhone customers are more willing to pay for apps than other customers from other phones.

    We can't just hope that developers will start making native apps. We need to create an incentive for developers. This is why I prefer to use paid apps instead of free apps when I have the choice, and if there is a paid update system then developers can get ongoing income even though the BlackBerry community is smaller. If developers can get sustainable income from native apps then I believe it will motive more developers to create native apps.
    Again, I could be wrong here but wasn't there something saying a while ago that the ratio of users willing to pay for apps was higher on BlackBerry? Again, I could be pulling this out of you know where but I thought I had read that somewhere. I'll try to find the link.

    As for the app I was speaking of. It was an in app purchase. "Click if you want to enable these features" which after I had done so I was prompted to put in my BlackBerry World password and updated from BlackBerry World.

    Posted via CB10
    BB_Jay likes this.
    07-27-14 05:59 PM
  11. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    Again, I could be wrong here but wasn't there something saying a while ago that the ratio of users willing to pay for apps was higher on BlackBerry? Again, I could be pulling this out of you know where but I thought I had read that somewhere. I'll try to find the link.

    As for the app I was speaking of. It was an in app purchase. "Click if you want to enable these features" which after I had done so I was prompted to put in my BlackBerry World password and updated from BlackBerry World.

    Posted via CB10
    I remember reading that study. IIRC, a few developers pointed out that reality didn't support that theory, and that it would not shake out that way on BB10. So far, they have been correct.

    I'm sure BB users will pay for apps, but I don't think the platform provides enough monetization for the average indie developer.
    07-27-14 07:56 PM
  12. rickie8649's Avatar
    Anyone ever thought of just mentioning to Blackberry to get BBOS applications to work on BB10 devices? Would close the gap.

    Posted via CB10
    07-27-14 08:31 PM
  13. Dave Bourque's Avatar
    Anyone ever thought of just mentioning to Blackberry to get BBOS applications to work on BB10 devices? Would close the gap.

    Posted via CB10
    Yeah that's not gonna work. You need to rework every app to fit the new BB10 resolutions. And support a new runtime for their BBOS java apps.

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.3247
    07-27-14 08:36 PM
  14. thurask's Avatar
    Yeah that's not gonna work. You need to rework every app to fit the new BB10 resolutions. And support a new runtime for their BBOS java apps.

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.3247
    And even then they'll just be themes even the blind find ugly.

    Posted via CB10
    07-27-14 08:40 PM
  15. rickie8649's Avatar
    Yeah that's not gonna work. You need to rework every app to fit the new BB10 resolutions. And support a new runtime for their BBOS java apps.

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.3247
    They wouldn't need to 'rework' every application. Yes the apps would look terrible, but it would still close a gap. Runtime? Yeah, they got the android one in without much bugs, surely putting their own BBOS runtime would be easier.

    Posted via CB10
    07-27-14 08:45 PM
  16. GhostGixxer's Avatar
    Lack of developpers = Lack of apps .. simple as that !! blackberry should have prepared the app world with opportunities for developpers WAY before launching bb10 on pb ''on a rush like they did'' ... with google adds on android for example a dev can still make a little bit of money with free apps, something that doesnt exist on bb platform, apple was the first to create an app store for their mobile devices so devs jumped on it, android had to create opportunities to attract the devs when android launched, blackberry did nothing exept for telling their customers that sideloading of androids apps would be available soon wich pretty much wasnt too attracting for a dev, plus the damn sideloading thing came like 1yr after pb launch lol ... Blackberry need to do something for the devs in the first place if they want the app world and their devices to survive, these days apps are what attract MOST ppl to buy a device, my 2 cent
    07-27-14 10:56 PM
  17. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    Lack of developpers = Lack of apps .. simple as that !! blackberry should have prepared the app world with opportunities for developpers WAY before launching bb10 on pb ''on a rush like they did'' ... with google adds on android for example a dev can still make a little bit of money with free apps, something that doesnt exist on bb platform, apple was the first to create an app store for their mobile devices so devs jumped on it, android had to create opportunities to attract the devs when android launched, blackberry did nothing exept for telling their customers that sideloading of androids apps would be available soon wich pretty much wasnt too attracting for a dev, plus the damn sideloading thing came like 1yr after pb launch lol ... Blackberry need to do something for the devs in the first place if they want the app world and their devices to survive, these days apps are what attract MOST ppl to buy a device, my 2 cent
    Hindsight is 20/20, and while I agree a better job could have been done with regards to attracting developers, I do believe BBRY did try hard to get folks on board.

    Like CBK, I believe app ransoms came into play, and at some point, BBRY had to evaluate the ROI. Looking back, it's easy to say BBRY should have dropped the cash, but at the time, I can see why they used money sparingly.

    But yes, BBRY is most responsible for its own ecosystem, so ultimately, it was up to it to make it happen. When you're late to the app game, it can be costly.
    07-27-14 11:07 PM
  18. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    With so many top names like foresquare,we chat withdrawing there support from BB10 its safe to assume that Android runtime is all that is left also felling really sad as windows phone is gaining dev support but Blackberry on the other hand dissaperring
    You hadn't heard that Microsoft is seriously considering adding Android support to Windows Phone?
    07-27-14 11:18 PM
  19. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    Lack of developpers = Lack of apps .. simple as that !! blackberry should have prepared the app world with opportunities for developpers WAY before launching bb10 on pb ''on a rush like they did'' ... with google adds on android for example a dev can still make a little bit of money with free apps, something that doesnt exist on bb platform, apple was the first to create an app store for their mobile devices so devs jumped on it, android had to create opportunities to attract the devs when android launched, blackberry did nothing exept for telling their customers that sideloading of androids apps would be available soon wich pretty much wasnt too attracting for a dev, plus the damn sideloading thing came like 1yr after pb launch lol ... Blackberry need to do something for the devs in the first place if they want the app world and their devices to survive, these days apps are what attract MOST ppl to buy a device, my 2 cent
    I don't think you know what you're talking about. BB10 allows advertising. They practically threw money, free devices, DEVELOPER devices at developers. They spent a TON of money. You either missed it or ignored it.
    07-27-14 11:21 PM
  20. GhostGixxer's Avatar
    But yes, BBRY is most responsible for its own ecosystem, so ultimately, it was up to it to make it happen. When you're late to the app game, it can be costly.
    Yup ... and sadly for us ''even if its never too late to do it right'' i have a felling that its never going to happen.. well not soon enought...
    Sideloading was good stuff for us at the begginning since we had no apps to mess with but it has been terrible for app world if u really think about it,
    devs got no desire to create a native app and sell it on bb10 when its already there on android ''with bugs for us'' but still.. we can get it, and for free ''really easy'' since android is easy to ''hack'' when it comes to apps, as a bb user i would rather pay 0.99$ for a working native app then get it ''for free'' as an apk, the hard part is to get a good percentage of the bb users to think the same, and make the devs willing to work with us.
    07-27-14 11:22 PM
  21. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    You hadn't heard that Microsoft is seriously considering adding Android support to Windows Phone?
    I doubt it will ever come to pass.

    Then again, I said the same about rumors of a BB-developed runtime way back when...
    07-27-14 11:43 PM
  22. GhostGixxer's Avatar
    I don't think you know what you're talking about. BB10 allows advertising. They practically threw money, free devices, DEVELOPER devices at developers. They spent a TON of money. You either missed it or ignored it.
    I was aware of it, but ''tell me if im wrong'' with android's advertising system ''google add'' devs gets paid for adds views as well as adds clicks, and bb system is click only if im not wrong. and this feature was not available at launch of app world thats the point, the time it took bb to put everthing together for the dev took too long so they pretty much missed the boat.
    Im not saying blackberry did NOTHING at all for AppWorld, I'm saying its sad that our app world is missing so much and most of it is due to realeasing appworld too early.
    07-28-14 12:09 AM
  23. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    I was aware of it, but ''tell me if im wrong'' with android's advertising system ''google add'' devs gets paid for adds views as well as adds clicks, and bb system is click only if im not wrong. and this feature was not available at launch of app world thats the point, the time it took bb to put everthing together for the dev took too long so they pretty much missed the boat.
    Im not saying blackberry did NOTHING at all for AppWorld, I'm saying its sad that our app world is missing so much and most of it is due to realeasing appworld too early.
    You're really going to split hairs and say that it would have made a crucial difference for BlackBerry to pay for advertising exposures?

    You're trying to make the case that they didn't do anything. Well Microsoft had a lot more money to throw at the same problem on the Windows side and they didn't get much traction there either.

    BlackBerry threw major developer events all over the world. They poured cash into creating decent tools. They took a Dev Relations department that had been notoriously difficult to work with and made it one of the best. The overhauled the developer website with tons of tutorials and reference material. They almost literally threw cash and incentives at anyone who would write code for their platform.

    I don't know what more they could have done.

    Posted from CB10 running on my awesome Z30 2B6927F7
    07-28-14 01:47 AM
  24. georgethegreek's Avatar
    I as many others believe that android apps were a double edged sword. I admit I do use android apps and yes they have helped me keep using BlackBerry. However, I always look for native BlackBerry apps first and gladly pay for them over free android apps.

    So what's the solution? In my opinion some incentive program from BlackBerry itself to app developers to build native apps. For example going to developers that have popular iOS /android apps and offering monetary incentive to develop apps. The second tier would be to offer a cheap alternative to consumers to buy BlackBerry devices. The Z10 at $199 now is a great deal for an outstanding device. BlackBerry should have a $199 device always available. Third level is to have an advertising campaign. There are so many thing s about OS 10 that make it better. Let people know. OK I'm off my soapbox

    Posted via CB10
    07-28-14 04:13 AM
  25. dikku11's Avatar
    You hadn't heard that Microsoft is seriously considering adding Android support to Windows Phone?
    But they support plus attract native Devs unlike BlackBerry

    Posted via CB10
    07-28-14 05:17 AM
50 12

Similar Threads

  1. Foursquare New App Version (Swarm)
    By effort900 in forum BlackBerry Q10
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 07-29-14, 06:56 PM
  2. Berry GBC App Still Exists? App alternatives?
    By Radical924 in forum BlackBerry OS Games
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 07-29-14, 03:54 PM
  3. Why Z3 is compatible on Android Apps while other BlackBerry 10 are not?
    By John Daeniel Mendoza in forum Ask a Question
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 07-25-14, 07:56 PM
  4. Get Google play patched apps and games directly on BlackBerry
    By officialpitt in forum Android Apps (Amazon Store & APK Files)
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 07-25-14, 06:02 PM
  5. Wifi Search-App
    By cia_man in forum BlackBerry 10 Apps
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 07-25-14, 12:35 AM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD