03-08-16 09:29 PM
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  1. xtremeled's Avatar
    I used Z10 untill 2 months ago when I bought a BlackBerry Passport SE. Now I use my Z10 with Google Cardboard. If your BlackBerry Z10 died it doesn't mean BlackBerry 10 died. It means your phone is broken. My Z10 still works like new, it is not obsolete.
    Now I use my BlackBerry Passport running the best OS called BlackBerry 10.
    When I bought my Z10, over 2 years ago everybody told me not to buy it because a BlackBerry device is obsolete and I will get no support. They were wrong. I am glad I didn't listen to them.
    If you changed the platform only because some people are saying that BlackBerry 10 is dead I feel sorry for you. I realy am.
    I understand you didn't want to take a chance with a new device, and I don't blame anyone for that. But you should understand that "BlackBerry 10 is dead" are just some opinions. You should also undestand that anybody could take their own decisions by reading the same articles that you read without you telling them your opinion as a fact.
    I will never write on Android Central forums "Android is dead since it started" because it is laggy or on IMore "IOS is dead" because it doesn't offer enough for my needs.
    You should understand that every time you write "BlackBerry 10 " is dead on a forum, especially on CrackBerry forums, it has an impact on BlackBerry 10 future.
    Again, I am still using BlackBerry 10 the same way I used it when I bought my first BlackBerry 10 device, evven better, it has more features now. So it is not dead. When something is dead it is not working anymore.
    Maybe you are right, maybe there is no chance for BlackBerry 10 to survive.
    Your opinion is not a fact, my opinion is not a fact, we cannot predict the future. Or maybe you have a Crystall Ball in your room....
    Guess what, I heard rumors that Apple will be in a big hole in a couple of years, but I am not writing that on forums as being a fact.
    About what is written on the wall, I would advise you to stop reading the commercials from those walls and choose what you makes you happy.
    Also, when I read articles that says that BlackBerry officials said "If we can secure Android at the same level as BlackBerry 10 and bring the same experience on Android devices we don't have to continue with BlackBerry 10 " I can think for myself without other persons translating that for me in "BlackBerry 10 " is dead. In the same time "we will upgrade to Qt5 when it will be really necessary " it is not the same with " there will be no Qt5 ".
    I am sorry I put some comments that are not related with your comment, but they are related with all the "BlackBerry 10 is dead" comments.
    Every time I read something interesting on BlackBerry Forums, there ie at least one guy with a "BlackBerry 10 is dead".
    Have fun and a great experience with any platform you choose. Cheers.


    Posted via CB10
    Android 59%
    iOS 32 %
    BB.02%
    It's dead. Your device and others are still working but there is no longer any updates and no innovation going into this OS. BTW, back in 2005? it was the lack of innovation that got this ball rolling. You can write your reasons in BIG CAPITAL LETTERS but, It doesn't make .02% into .03%. Nothing will. BB was at 21% in 2005. It has been downhill ever since. Even with the players collapsing which narrowed the playing field, BB kept getting lower. Debating you has now become a waste of time. You simply dont get it. You think that because your device works that the OS is alive and kicking. Apps are scarce, App developers are pulling support and BB is only doing maintenance releases oh, and, .02%. Priv was a FLOP! PP was a FLOP! Everything with BB10 has pretty much failed in the sales dept.
    Your statement about Apple is not supported by any numbers in fact Apple was up over a dollar just yesterday. None of this has anything to do with what platform I choose to use. My present choice is not going down anytime soon based on numbers alone. .02% is not a survivable number. Anyone in business knows that if they have a product where the competition is selling in double digits, the cant survive on .02%. .02% is not even a single digit. It's a fraction of a single digit.
    BB10 has become obsolete. There is no new hardware. Even BB chose a platform other than their own. That screams death! When you build hardware and you don't load your own OS onto it you have died. We will never agree. Some/most see what has happened but you want to believe in fairy tales and unicorns. Thats ok, someone needs to keep those myths alive as well. LOL
    sergio_can likes this.
    03-07-16 03:54 PM
  2. conite's Avatar
    Android 59%
    iOS 32 %
    BB.02%
    Based on last quarter sales, BB is at 0.2% globally. Windows is 1.1%. Apple at 17.7%, and Android at 80.7%.

    Just adding info.

    http://www.winbeta.org/news/windows-...industry-slows
    Last edited by conite; 03-07-16 at 04:07 PM.
    03-07-16 03:56 PM
  3. app_Developer's Avatar
    "Quality is developing always in “maintenance mode” so we are improving and adapting the product continuously."

    Developing Software in Maintenance Mode | Jess Gil Hernndez
    Come on, now. You know as well as anyone else here that this is not the "maintenance mode" we are talking about.

    What we are discussing here is BB10 and the fact that all BB will be doing going forward is a couple of bug fix releases and security updates. That's it. There will be no new devices. No new supported chipsets. No effort to update the Android runtime. No new SDKs for developers. No new APIs.

    Whether you want to call that "dead" or deprecated (probably a much better word. Thanks, conite) or dying or whatever, this is where we find BB10
    JeepBB likes this.
    03-07-16 03:58 PM
  4. Bogdan Tudor Dan's Avatar
    You're defining "dead" as "no longer working". This is a rather extreme definition. One could say windows 3.1, PC DOS, or the Atari 2600 are not dead according to this.

    The general consensus here is that an OS is "dead" if it is not being actively developed with new features, has an ecosystem that is not being actively supported and is becoming deprecated, and has a rapidly declining user base.

    I would also add that comments on Crackberry have not contributed to the colossal collapse of BB10.
    I agree with you, my definition was extreme. When I said "it's not working anymore, I wanted to say "it is not usefull on a daily use". Your definition is the proper one, but BlackBerry 10 is not in that state yet.

    I also understand the general consensus of the OS being dead but not everybody used the words properly as you did.

    I never said that the comments on Crackberry have contributed to the colossal collapse of BlackBerry 10. I said that it has a bad influence, especially when some people are exaggerating with comments about BlackBerry officials statements. But the failure of BlackBerry 10 was also influenced by the negativism from mass-media and lying articles, as I stated in other threads.
    Enjoy your BlackBerry Priv, I will enjoy my BlackBerry Passport as long as I can.

    Posted via CB10
    03-07-16 04:29 PM
  5. Bogdan Tudor Dan's Avatar
    Android 59%
    iOS 32 %
    BB.02%
    It's dead. Your device and others are still working but there is no longer any updates and no innovation going into this OS. BTW, back in 2005? it was the lack of innovation that got this ball rolling. You can write your reasons in BIG CAPITAL LETTERS but, It doesn't make .02% into .03%. Nothing will. BB was at 21% in 2005. It has been downhill ever since. Even with the players collapsing which narrowed the playing field, BB kept getting lower. Debating you has now become a waste of time. You simply dont get it. You think that because your device works that the OS is alive and kicking. Apps are scarce, App developers are pulling support and BB is only doing maintenance releases oh, and, .02%. Priv was a FLOP! PP was a FLOP! Everything with BB10 has pretty much failed in the sales dept.
    Your statement about Apple is not supported by any numbers in fact Apple was up over a dollar just yesterday. None of this has anything to do with what platform I choose to use. My present choice is not going down anytime soon based on numbers alone. .02% is not a survivable number. Anyone in business knows that if they have a product where the competition is selling in double digits, the cant survive on .02%. .02% is not even a single digit. It's a fraction of a single digit.
    BB10 has become obsolete. There is no new hardware. Even BB chose a platform other than their own. That screams death! When you build hardware and you don't load your own OS onto it you have died. We will never agree. Some/most see what has happened but you want to believe in fairy tales and unicorns. Thats ok, someone needs to keep those myths alive as well. LOL
    You are right when you say that BlackBerry failure was in the sails dept. The fact that my device and the OS are working properly is a big thing in the chance of survival. You are the one that doesn't get it. You are just repeting the 0.2 digit.
    BlackBerry didn't have any innovations when Iphone came on the market and indeed BlackBerry 10 came a little late. But think about the fact that Iphone started from 0% which is not bigger than 0,2 with a device that had only the touchscreen innovation but comparing with Nokia N9800 it was a crappy phone and it was being sold with more than 1000 euros. Only because they had a good marketing department. And in those days you could buy many devices that were better than Iphone.
    So yes, only because it is a good working OS it has a chance to survive with good marketing.
    Also I don't care if BlackBerry fails, I just don't know want IOS. And Android to be my only choices and all the other OS's being killed. I just want the best product on the market, not the "fake innovations" from IOS nowadays, and not hypocrisy of Google with their free information flow.
    I know plenty of you will say that BlackBerry 10 cannot survive because of the lack of apps, but in the same time the people will say that developers will not come to a platform without a good market share. It's like saying "I am fat because I eat and I eat because I am fat." .


    Posted via CB10
    03-07-16 04:51 PM
  6. danifulger's Avatar
    I believe this to be a good idea, so why hasn't BlackBerry put out the slider with BB10 already?
    as long as there isn't even one proper CAD application like the one in the link...
    https://itunes.apple.com/en/app/auto...UvbUpU12305868
    If someone said "I used a CAD app and ran out of memory" then yes we could say we need new hardware. As I said "they didn't even scratch the surface yet".
    Last edited by danifulger; 03-10-16 at 02:56 PM.
    03-07-16 05:47 PM
  7. xtremeled's Avatar
    You are right when you say that BlackBerry failure was in the sails dept. The fact that my device and the OS are working properly is a big thing in the chance of survival. You are the one that doesn't get it. You are just repeting the 0.2 digit.
    BlackBerry didn't have any innovations when Iphone came on the market and indeed BlackBerry 10 came a little late. But think about the fact that Iphone started from 0% which is not bigger than 0,2 with a device that had only the touchscreen innovation but comparing with Nokia N9800 it was a crappy phone and it was being sold with more than 1000 euros. Only because they had a good marketing department. And in those days you could buy many devices that were better than Iphone.
    So yes, only because it is a good working OS it has a chance to survive with good marketing.
    Also I don't care if BlackBerry fails, I just don't know want IOS. And Android to be my only choices and all the other OS's being killed. I just want the best product on the market, not the "fake innovations" from IOS nowadays, and not hypocrisy of Google with their free information flow.
    I know plenty of you will say that BlackBerry 10 cannot survive because of the lack of apps, but in the same time the people will say that developers will not come to a platform without a good market share. It's like saying "I am fat because I eat and I eat because I am fat." .


    Posted via CB10
    Most of what you say I can agree with entirely or almost entirely. The start of iPhone? It's much easier to start from nothing and excel than it is to have excelled and then drop the ball, then, hit a home run. When iPhone was released Apple was doing very well so they had momentum. BB has no momentum. I was a die hard BB fan. It was my first smartphone and I loved it. Not anymore.
    03-07-16 06:10 PM
  8. blueberrymerry's Avatar
    I've got a Playbook here that still works. It just doesn't work very well because so much stuff has been left in maintenance mode:

    - it has an outdated browser that lags on almost all sites
    - a broken email client with a stupid message limit
    - buggy third party apps that will never be fixed or updated because the developers disappeared
    - an ancient, buggy and slow Android Gingerbread runtime that chokes on most apps
    - USB OTG support that exists in firmware but was disabled on production PB OS
    - security holes left unmentioned and unpatched

    The same fate awaits BB10 and its tiny number of adherents. Your phone will still be usable two years from now, no doubt, but you'll be left with a dwindling number of apps and services that work properly. I saw this ostrich head-in-sand behavior on many Symbian and Meego forums when Nokia announced they were transitioning to WinPhone. People kicked up a big fuss but in the end, everyone drifted away and moved on. It's just a gadget after all

    As for the QNX microkernel being the best thing since sliced bread - just stop it. A kernel isn't an operating system and it sure isn't a mobile platform. Google copypasta doesn't help advance any of your arguments.
    JeepBB and paulie_iwin like this.
    03-07-16 09:44 PM
  9. DonHB's Avatar
    What you don't have to do, and this is key, is spin up and manage threads. Threads are too expensive on phones, and you can't know how to manage that expense because you can't know what threads other apps and processes are using. The OS, however, does and so I'd rather have the OS manage that for me.
    ...
    Neutrino itself, deep in the bowels of BB10, is capable of this, and even capable of doing this in user space. But it's not nearly as useful there with those primitive APIs as it is in iOS and WP10 where that is woven all the way up through the stack, and neatly supported in the language(s) themselves. In short, one thing BB10 would have needed, if it hadn't already died, was something like Apple's GCD integrated into all of the BB10 frameworks that a developer uses and with language level support. (This would also lead to changes in BB10 process model since some of this efficiency is less useful if your app has to be running all of the time)
    ...
    I'm saying that is an absolutely absurd assertion for *any* operating system. The industry moves quickly, there is always, always, something new to add unless you don't see a future in the OS and you've moved on. BlackBerry has moved on.
    You are conflating OS functionality and SDK/framework features. Apples GCD doesn't change how the operating system handles threads and processes. Apple's GCD takes the tasks you wish to avoid out of the hands of the developer by adding abstractions similar to SCOOP in Eiffel and using them in their development kits.

    It appears that RIM in developing BB10 acted as a licensee of Neutrino and didn't consider synergies between BB10 and QNX's product line. Primarily by not adopting QNX's approach of utilizing development tools developed outside the company and making Cascades proprietary. Had RIM decided to begin by properly integrating the Android runtime (a third party product) into the BB10 UX and making it a first class development tool for BB10 history would have likely been different. Qt for BB10 could come later similar to how Apple added development kits to iOS for native development.

    With third parties developing Android runtimes for several platforms it would make sense for Blackberry to make their Android runtime (and Amazon App store) an optional download from Blackberry World with BB10.3.3. Open sourcing their Dalvik implementation would encourage third parties to submit more up-to-date versions of the Android run-time environment to Blackberry World.

    I suspect that Cascades has all the functionality required to make an Android runtime environment App for submission to Blackberry World.
    03-08-16 06:53 PM
  10. DonHB's Avatar
    Unfortunately, at this point, all signs point to "no".
    I will wait for the numbers.

    I believe this to be a good idea, so why hasn't BlackBerry put out the slider with BB10 already?
    It is consistent with what I wrote that they are waiting to see if a sufficient market exists for Android by Blackberry.

    Because apparently the cost of developing "BB10 chipset drivers" for the Qualcomm chips used in the Slider would be greater than the GDP of China. So, BlackBerry can't afford that, or they might have already done it. Well, that's the conjecture bandied about here on CrackBerry, but no one can even ESTIMATE a number that would be prohibitive. The real story seems to have come out in the early 2016 C|Net interviews with BB execs: Ron Louks came on board INTENT to kill BB10 and switch BB over to Android.
    Because the Priv is 64-bit and BB10 is currently 32-bit so to fully support the Priv hardware requires a new 64-bit version of BB10 and new drivers. If there is a sufficiently large market for Android by Blackberry they could switch from GR Security Linux to Neutrino sharing development costs between platforms.

    ...putting BB10 on the Slider hardware would make sense, BlackBerry has shown not only resistance to do it, but have made statements and taken steps (i.e. firing most of the BB10 developers)...
    BB10 is based on QNX Neutrino and QNX Systems still exists within Blackberry and they have purchased a number of software companies and judging by the choices the BB10 team made in terms of app development direction...

    I would think they are waiting on Android by BBRY sales and market outlook. And, no, it is not about Android sales supporting BB10 it is more about sufficient hardware sales volume and less about costs of software R&D. But why invest in that R&D if they stop making handsets? So, before deciding on BB10's future they are waiting to see if Android devices have a future at BBRY.

    .02
    03-08-16 07:23 PM
  11. sid89's Avatar
    I used Z10 untill 2 months ago when I bought a BlackBerry Passport SE. Now I use my Z10 with Google Cardboard. If your BlackBerry Z10 died it doesn't mean BlackBerry 10 died. It means your phone is broken. My Z10 still works like new, it is not obsolete.
    Now I use my BlackBerry Passport running the best OS called BlackBerry 10.
    When I bought my Z10, over 2 years ago everybody told me not to buy it because a BlackBerry device is obsolete and I will get no support. They were wrong. I am glad I didn't listen to them.
    If you changed the platform only because some people are saying that BlackBerry 10 is dead I feel sorry for you. I realy am.
    I understand you didn't want to take a chance with a new device, and I don't blame anyone for that. But you should understand that "BlackBerry 10 is dead" are just some opinions. You should also undestand that anybody could take their own decisions by reading the same articles that you read without you telling them your opinion as a fact.
    I will never write on Android Central forums "Android is dead since it started" because it is laggy or on IMore "IOS is dead" because it doesn't offer enough for my needs.
    You should understand that every time you write "BlackBerry 10 " is dead on a forum, especially on CrackBerry forums, it has an impact on BlackBerry 10 future.
    Again, I am still using BlackBerry 10 the same way I used it when I bought my first BlackBerry 10 device, evven better, it has more features now. So it is not dead. When something is dead it is not working anymore.
    Maybe you are right, maybe there is no chance for BlackBerry 10 to survive.
    Your opinion is not a fact, my opinion is not a fact, we cannot predict the future. Or maybe you have a Crystall Ball in your room....
    Guess what, I heard rumors that Apple will be in a big hole in a couple of years, but I am not writing that on forums as being a fact.
    About what is written on the wall, I would advise you to stop reading the commercials from those walls and choose what you makes you happy.
    Also, when I read articles that says that BlackBerry officials said "If we can secure Android at the same level as BlackBerry 10 and bring the same experience on Android devices we don't have to continue with BlackBerry 10 " I can think for myself without other persons translating that for me in "BlackBerry 10 " is dead. In the same time "we will upgrade to Qt5 when it will be really necessary " it is not the same with " there will be no Qt5 ".
    I am sorry I put some comments that are not related with your comment, but they are related with all the "BlackBerry 10 is dead" comments.
    Every time I read something interesting on BlackBerry Forums, there ie at least one guy with a "BlackBerry 10 is dead".
    Have fun and a great experience with any platform you choose. Cheers.


    Posted via CB10
    Awesome reply, Hahahahaha!!

    Posted via CB10
    03-08-16 07:28 PM
  12. sid89's Avatar
    Posted via CB10
    03-08-16 07:32 PM
  13. sid89's Avatar
    I've got a Playbook here that still works. It just doesn't work very well because so much stuff has been left in maintenance mode:

    - it has an outdated browser that lags on almost all sites
    - a broken email client with a stupid message limit
    - buggy third party apps that will never be fixed or updated because the developers disappeared
    - an ancient, buggy and slow Android Gingerbread runtime that chokes on most apps
    - USB OTG support that exists in firmware but was disabled on production PB OS
    - security holes left unmentioned and unpatched

    The same fate awaits BB10 and its tiny number of adherents. Your phone will still be usable two years from now, no doubt, but you'll be left with a dwindling number of apps and services that work properly. I saw this ostrich head-in-sand behavior on many Symbian and Meego forums when Nokia announced they were transitioning to WinPhone. People kicked up a big fuss but in the end, everyone drifted away and moved on. It's just a gadget after all

    As for the QNX microkernel being the best thing since sliced bread - just stop it. A kernel isn't an operating system and it sure isn't a mobile platform. Google copypasta doesn't help advance any of your arguments.
    Nokia and meego stories are different than that of blackberry, bb10 will stay!

    Posted via CB10
    03-08-16 07:34 PM
  14. Jerry A's Avatar
    Why does everything have to be a damn conspiracy? Some people can simply read between the lines, ya know?

    I'm on my 5th BlackBerry phone, soon going to be buying my 6th, and I have no doubts that there will never be another BB10 phone or any major software update besides what BlackBerry itself promised. And this post was NOT paid for by Apple, Google, or Microsoft.


    BlackBerry Classic non-camera, Cricket Wireless
    Are you sure you're not on someone's payroll. My divining rod says otherwise.

    Ooh, I know - maybe the Blipverts got to you.
    03-08-16 08:08 PM
  15. kvndoom's Avatar
    Are you sure you're not on someone's payroll. My divining rod says otherwise.

    Ooh, I know - maybe the Blipverts got to you.
    "Someone's" payroll, definitely.... Just not anyone who has anything to do with cell phones.

    I've seen paid shills on other message boards and they usually get dealt with severely when they get out of hand. I just don't get that kind of vibe from any long-timers on CB.
    03-08-16 08:17 PM
  16. Jerry A's Avatar
    especially slides #14 and #16
    Monolithic kernel vs. Microkernel
    Did you search for "microkernel better than monolithic kernel" and post the first result you found?

    Couldn't you have at least found something from this decade?

    In this day and age, real-world usage has shown that neither model is the clear winner.

    Monolithic kernels have shown they're not hard to port to new hardware. They take security seriously. And they're not the maintenance nightmare Tannenbaum espoused (20 years ago).

    Conversely, microkernels aren't memory juggernauts due to overreliance on IPC. They can scale up even with the overhead of complex message passing/process management. And they're not dog-slow like Torvalds suggested (once again, 20 years ago).

    Things like this make me question all those who say BlackBerry doesn't market. There's a bandwagon of misinformation and lots of folks around here preach it as gospel.
    app_Developer and DrBoomBotz like this.
    03-08-16 08:27 PM
  17. blueberrymerry's Avatar
    Nokia and meego stories are different than that of blackberry, bb10 will stay!

    Posted via CB10
    *Symbian* had larger global market share than BBOS and BB10 combined, back when the Z10 came out. Symbian is a footnote in history now. Same with Meego, PalmOS, WebOS, Sailfish... and the same thing will happen to BB10 soon.
    03-08-16 09:29 PM
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