03-08-16 10:29 PM
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  1. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    ] again, not sure, could you tell where does this feature complete idea comes from?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feature_complete

    It is used in reference to software releases or product releases put not in reference to the overall product life cycle.

    Google is your friend.
    03-07-16 01:28 PM
  2. Bogdan Tudor Dan's Avatar
    It's not features that are missing, it's apps

    Posted via CB10
    What is the number of BlackBerry Priv devices sold?

    Posted via CB10
    03-07-16 01:37 PM
  3. danifulger's Avatar
    In a different thread, someone can explain to me how Linux (a "monolithic" kernel) is at a practical (real) disadvantage compared to Mach or Neutrino in a phone. I think Dan Dodge has left BlackBerry by now, hasn't he? I would hope that would end the myth that an RTOS or a microkernel (either) have some advantage in a modern smartphone. Again, this is 2016 not 1995.
    especially slides #14 and #16
    Monolithic kernel vs. Microkernel
    03-07-16 01:44 PM
  4. Bogdan Tudor Dan's Avatar
    Oh My GOD!!!!! Stop already. Slap any label you want on what BB10 is or isnt. .02 percent of the market. It's dead! You just dont want to admit it. Nothing new on its way and developers either not building or no longer supporting it.
    Nope, it's not dead. It's still working perfectly. It will be dead because of the "BlackBerry 10 is dead" comments. Most of the people who think about buying a BlackBerry 10 device for the first time would search it on Google. There are many links to CrackBerry forums if you search for "BlackBerry 10 " and all they can see is your comments, so they won't buy it.
    If the BlackBerry 10 device sells would grow they would continue to invest in it.
    So, you are sure BlackBerry 10 is dead. From this I can tell you are working in the speculations area, or aren't you?

    Posted via CB10
    03-07-16 01:56 PM
  5. danifulger's Avatar
    BB10 survives AND advances predicated on two things:

    The Android experiment is deemed a failure and;
    the board decides that the devices division is too important to close down, even if it is not profitable (I.e. BlackBerry enterprise software won't succeed in the market without the end-to-end coverage devices provide)

    The BB10 web browser is really showing its age, and the WebKit engine on which it is based is being phased out. If the OS doesn't get additional and significant development, it will NOT continue to function as it does today, because the world to which BB10 connects and upon which it relies is moving forward while BB10 stands still... Eventually the world is so far ahead of BB10 that there is too much distance to hear and be heard.

    So, no, BB10 without significant investment will NOT continue to work as it does today.
    More companies are joining the Webkit base and it is being phased out? Could you come with a reference for this?
    Blink is based on Webkit. Apple relies on Webkit (Safari)...
    Where do you get these ideas from?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compar...nes#cite_ref-2
    Considering the Webkit part, this falls "....and the WebKit engine on which it is based is being phased out. So, no, BB10 without significant investment will NOT continue to work as it does today." If you will look at the presentation will see that a microkernel is more stable, secure and doesn't require the development resources a monolithic kernel (Linux-->Android) does.
    03-07-16 01:59 PM
  6. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    More companies are joining the Webkit base and it is being phased out? Could you come with a reference for this?
    Blink is based on Webkit. Apple relies on Webkit (Safari)...
    Where do you get these ideas from?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compar...nes#cite_ref-2
    Considering the Webkit part, this falls "....and the WebKit engine on which it is based is being phased out. So, no, BB10 without significant investment will NOT continue to work as it does today." If you will look at the presentation will see that a microkernel is more stable, secure and doesn't require the development resources a monolithic kernel (Linux-->Android) does.
    Both of those slides talk about maintaining a highly available system.
    These features allow updating more components of the system without rebooting it.

    Lostboy5151 who is a self proclaimed expert advocates for daily reboots of BB10.
    Many other BB10 "experts" suggest weekly reboots as sensible routine maintenance.

    This feature is of dubious benefit when their are only two more OTA updates scheduled and they will be approximately 6-9 months apart.

    You have no clue what you are talking about.

    It did have a benefit as far as fips certification is concerned but that is all I can really see.
    03-07-16 02:09 PM
  7. danifulger's Avatar
    ... someone can explain to me how Linux (a "monolithic" kernel) is at a practical (real) disadvantage compared to Mach or Neutrino in a phone.
    Both of those slides talk about maintaining a highly available system.
    You have no clue what you are talking about.
    High availability is a characteristic of a system, which aims to ensure an agreed level of operational performance for a higher than normal period.

    There are three principles of system design in high availability engineering:

    Elimination of single points of failure. This means adding redundancy to the system so that failure of a component does not mean failure of the entire system. See Reliability Engineering.
    Reliable crossover. In multithreaded systems, the crossover point itself tends to become a single point of failure. High availability engineering must provide for reliable crossover.
    Detection of failures as they occur. If the two principles above are observed, then a user may never see a failure. But the maintenance activity must.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_availability
    especially slides #14 and #16
    Monolithic kernel vs. Microkernel
    03-07-16 02:19 PM
  8. danifulger's Avatar
    You have no clue what you are talking about.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feature_complete

    It is used in reference to software releases or product releases put not in reference to the overall product life cycle.

    Google is your friend.
    "A feature complete version of a piece of software has all of its planned or primary features implemented but is not yet final due to bugs, performance or stability issues.[1]
    Usually a feature complete software still has to undergo beta testing
    Beta testing comes after alpha testing and can be considered a form of external user acceptance testing. Versions of the software, known as beta versions, are released to a limited audience outside of the programming team known as beta testers. The software is released to groups of people so that further testing can ensure the product has few faults or bugs."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Softwa...g#Beta_testing
    03-07-16 02:37 PM
  9. danifulger's Avatar
    Why does everything have to be a damn conspiracy? Some people can simply read between the lines, ya know?
    In 2011, Nokia promised updates to 2016 - in reality, platform updates stopped at the end of 2012, the app store disappeared in 2015, and by 2016 there were no users or developers left for Symbian.
    http://www.theguardian.com/technolog...icrosoft-nokia
    http://techcrunch.com/2013/09/03/a-t...his-own-words/
    03-07-16 02:44 PM
  10. kvndoom's Avatar
    So what? MS bought Nokia in 2013, so whatever Nokia promised in 2011 doesn't mean squat. Microsoft didn't make those promises. If Apple buys Blackberry tomorrow and shuts it down immediately, are we somehow obligated to still get 10.3.3 because "Blackberry promised?"
    JeepBB likes this.
    03-07-16 03:10 PM
  11. xtremeled's Avatar
    Nope, it's not dead. It's still working perfectly. It will be dead because of the "BlackBerry 10 is dead" comments. Most of the people who think about buying a BlackBerry 10 device for the first time would search it on Google. There are many links to CrackBerry forums if you search for "BlackBerry 10 " and all they can see is your comments, so they won't buy it.
    If the BlackBerry 10 device sells would grow they would continue to invest in it.
    So, you are sure BlackBerry 10 is dead. From this I can tell you are working in the speculations area, or aren't you?

    Posted via CB10
    .02% I bought a Z10 when it was released. I used it till it died and had to switch because the writing was on the wall. You're standing in front of the wrong wall. If you were in front of the right wall you would see it also. Either that or you just cant read!
    03-07-16 03:13 PM
  12. danifulger's Avatar
    Why does everything have to be a damn conspiracy? Some people can simply read between the lines, ya know?
    BlackBerry Classic non-camera, Cricket Wireless
    Corporate espionage in Korea: Samsung accuses LG of spying | VentureBeat | News | by John Koetsier
    Google Is Sabotaging Windows Phone (GOOGL, MSFT)
    Dysfunction, subversion, sabotage and fraud in software development projects / Generational Dynamics
    Forbes Welcome
    03-07-16 03:33 PM
  13. kvndoom's Avatar
    Aaaaand as soon as you explain how any of that supports your claim that long-time Crackberry posters are being paid to make negative comments, you'll have my undivided attention.

    BlackBerry Classic non-camera, Cricket Wireless
    JeepBB likes this.
    03-07-16 03:52 PM
  14. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    It's a total wind up. OP is just having fun at our expense. Well done!
    Last edited by DrBoomBotz; 03-07-16 at 04:19 PM.
    03-07-16 04:03 PM
  15. Bogdan Tudor Dan's Avatar
    .02% I bought a Z10 when it was released. I used it till it died and had to switch because the writing was on the wall. You're standing in front of the wrong wall. If you were in front of the right wall you would see it also. Either that or you just cant read!
    I used Z10 untill 2 months ago when I bought a BlackBerry Passport SE. Now I use my Z10 with Google Cardboard. If your BlackBerry Z10 died it doesn't mean BlackBerry 10 died. It means your phone is broken. My Z10 still works like new, it is not obsolete.
    Now I use my BlackBerry Passport running the best OS called BlackBerry 10.
    When I bought my Z10, over 2 years ago everybody told me not to buy it because a BlackBerry device is obsolete and I will get no support. They were wrong. I am glad I didn't listen to them.
    If you changed the platform only because some people are saying that BlackBerry 10 is dead I feel sorry for you. I realy am.
    I understand you didn't want to take a chance with a new device, and I don't blame anyone for that. But you should understand that "BlackBerry 10 is dead" are just some opinions. You should also undestand that anybody could take their own decisions by reading the same articles that you read without you telling them your opinion as a fact.
    I will never write on Android Central forums "Android is dead since it started" because it is laggy or on IMore "IOS is dead" because it doesn't offer enough for my needs.
    You should understand that every time you write "BlackBerry 10 " is dead on a forum, especially on CrackBerry forums, it has an impact on BlackBerry 10 future.
    Again, I am still using BlackBerry 10 the same way I used it when I bought my first BlackBerry 10 device, evven better, it has more features now. So it is not dead. When something is dead it is not working anymore.
    Maybe you are right, maybe there is no chance for BlackBerry 10 to survive.
    Your opinion is not a fact, my opinion is not a fact, we cannot predict the future. Or maybe you have a Crystall Ball in your room....
    Guess what, I heard rumors that Apple will be in a big hole in a couple of years, but I am not writing that on forums as being a fact.
    About what is written on the wall, I would advise you to stop reading the commercials from those walls and choose what you makes you happy.
    Also, when I read articles that says that BlackBerry officials said "If we can secure Android at the same level as BlackBerry 10 and bring the same experience on Android devices we don't have to continue with BlackBerry 10 " I can think for myself without other persons translating that for me in "BlackBerry 10 " is dead. In the same time "we will upgrade to Qt5 when it will be really necessary " it is not the same with " there will be no Qt5 ".
    I am sorry I put some comments that are not related with your comment, but they are related with all the "BlackBerry 10 is dead" comments.
    Every time I read something interesting on BlackBerry Forums, there ie at least one guy with a "BlackBerry 10 is dead".
    Have fun and a great experience with any platform you choose. Cheers.


    Posted via CB10
    sid89 likes this.
    03-07-16 04:07 PM
  16. danifulger's Avatar
    Aaaaand as soon as you explain how any of that supports your claim that long-time Crackberry posters are being paid to make negative comments, you'll have my undivided attention.

    BlackBerry Classic non-camera, Cricket Wireless
    after all that (the links with the articles) what else could I add ?
    03-07-16 04:10 PM
  17. kvndoom's Avatar
    after all that (the links with the articles) what else could I add ?
    Something relevant, for starters. You are accusing posters of being paid by BlackBerry's competition, that's a pretty bold thing to say with no evidence whatsoever.

    Here's a hint: BlackBerry has 0.2% of the market. That's a rounding error. Nobody needs to pay Crackberry members to hurt the company's reputation. BlackBerry did that just fine without any outside help.

    BlackBerry Classic non-camera, Cricket Wireless
    JeepBB and Sir Reaper like this.
    03-07-16 04:23 PM
  18. danifulger's Avatar
    Operating systems are not put into maintenance mode because they have been perfected. They are put into maintenance mode because they are approaching end of life and are not worth any significant new investment.
    "Quality is developing always in “maintenance mode” so we are improving and adapting the product continuously."

    Developing Software in Maintenance Mode | Jess Gil Hernndez
    03-07-16 04:27 PM
  19. conite's Avatar
    You should understand that every time you write "BlackBerry 10 " is dead on a forum, especially on CrackBerry forums, it has an impact on BlackBerry 10 future.
    Again, I am still using BlackBerry 10 the same way I used it when I bought my first BlackBerry 10 device, evven better, it has more features now. So it is not dead. When something is dead it is not working anymore.
    You're defining "dead" as "no longer working". This is a rather extreme definition. One could say windows 3.1, PC DOS, or the Atari 2600 are not dead according to this.

    The general consensus here is that an OS is "dead" if it is not being actively developed with new features, has an ecosystem that is not being actively supported and is becoming deprecated, and has a rapidly declining user base.

    I would also add that comments on Crackberry have not contributed to the colossal collapse of BB10.
    03-07-16 04:31 PM
  20. danifulger's Avatar
    You are accusing posters of being paid by BlackBerry's competition, that's a pretty bold thing to say with no evidence whatsoever.

    BlackBerry Classic non-camera, Cricket Wireless
    Twisting, bending...."Not sure if those are just paid by Google or by Blackberrys competitors"
    03-07-16 04:36 PM
  21. danifulger's Avatar
    I would also add that comments on Crackberry has not contributed to the colossal collapse of BB10.
    Attached Thumbnails My view on BlackBerry 10 and its Maintenance mode...-procrastinationdemotivator_large.jpg  
    03-07-16 04:43 PM
  22. app_Developer's Avatar


    High availability is a characteristic of a system, which aims to ensure an agreed level of operational performance for a higher than normal period.
    In actual practice, BB10 updates have required reboots. In fact, there have been cases where the recommended approach is not just a reboot, but a complete security wipe of the system.

    So where has there been an actual BB10 update where user space processes were dropped and restarted without rebooting the device?
    03-07-16 04:44 PM
  23. app_Developer's Avatar
    especially slides #14 and #16
    Monolithic kernel vs. Microkernel
    I want to understand real and practical advantages in mobile OSes. Theoretical advantages and disadvantages have been talked about for 30+ years now. I went to school where RMS/FSF were based. I've heard the hype many, many times. But I don't see the actual practical advantage in phones.
    03-07-16 04:47 PM
  24. app_Developer's Avatar
    again, not sure, could you tell where does this feature complete idea comes from?
    That's what it means when a project is in "maintenance mode". It means no new features are being added. Your claim is that the reason BB10 is in this mode is because they have no new features to add. I'm saying BB10 is in this mode because they have given up.
    JeepBB likes this.
    03-07-16 04:52 PM
  25. danifulger's Avatar
    In actual practice, BB10 updates have required reboots. In fact, there have been cases where the recommended approach is not just a reboot, but a complete security wipe of the system.

    So where has there been an actual BB10 update where user space processes were dropped and restarted without rebooting the device?
    it was generally speaking and in very very tight connection to this.
    Both of those slides talk about maintaining a highly available system.
    You have no clue what you are talking about.
    Anyway you would take it...BB10 stays well above Linux's Android when it comes to ...random rebooting, availability, security, stability and UI.
    You didn't find anything helpful in those slides ? Monolithic kernel vs. Microkernel
    03-07-16 04:54 PM
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