03-08-16 09:29 PM
92 123 ...
tools
  1. danifulger's Avatar
    Please excuse my English as am not sure if I can translate this well in the English language.
    Lately there is a wave of users who, for some reason, believe that because in the maintenance mode, it is the end of Blackberry10 Operating system. Not sure if those are just paid by Google or by Blackberrys competitors Crackberry forum users who are flooding these threads but in the programming world the maintenance mode is the best mode to be in, for software development, and Blackberry 10 is in its best stage at the moment.
    While it is true that there is a significant lack of quality Blackberry10 native software in the Blackberry World it doesn't mean that from a "developing a mobile operating system perspective" (and not a software or applications development one), the operating system is dead. It just means that, from Blackberrys perspective, the main development for the operating system is mainly done and it is up to the software developers or the community, more or less, to develop software applications for the operating system. As we could see in the slide no.# 87 out of 104 there are three stages for software development or mobile operating system development in this case: stage one is Exploration, stage two is Stable Development. Stage three is Maintenance Mode in which Blackberry10 is in it at the moment and the best one to be in (slide no. #92 of 104) Erlang, LFE, Joxa and Elixir: Established and Emerging Languages in t?
    From Blackberry's point of view, as of 2016, with the upcoming security certifications, they delivered a top of the line, secure and stable mobile Operating System to the world. It is good understanded that they did have their mistakes and it is hard for me to understand why did they chose to have a built in application development framework (the QT) which now needs updated as well and is causing code collision, maybe them hoping to speed up the application development process, instead of letting the developers or programmers choose the framework to built their application with as so it is hard to understand why did they chose C as a programming language for their software development when considering the features QNX has, Erlang seemed a better option, but this is for another thread and another discussion.
    What's your view on the Blackberry 10's maintenance mode ?
    Last edited by danifulger; 03-05-16 at 07:06 AM. Reason: my English
    FF22, yuvaraki, bBOLD723 and 1 others like this.
    03-05-16 05:37 AM
  2. johnny_bravo72's Avatar
    This is just a variation of a thread you created earlier:
    http://forums.crackberry.com/blackbe...10-ok-1057566/

    *C5303
    03-05-16 06:26 AM
  3. conite's Avatar
    in the programming world the maintenance mode is the best mode to be in, for software development, and Blackberry 10 is in its best stage at the moment.
    If this quoted excerpt is essentially your thesis, then I simply will have to disagree.

    In a highly competitive, quickly evolving mobile space, he who stands still, dies.

    From a developer's standpoint, Thurask already answered your question though in your other thread:
    http://forums.crackberry.com/showthread.php?p=12232722
    03-05-16 06:42 AM
  4. danifulger's Avatar
    how so? to me that one is about Blackberry continuous commitment and reassurance surrounding the demise of Blackberry 10 while this one is about the debates surrounding Blackberry 10's maintenance mode. but if it bothers you ...
    03-05-16 06:49 AM
  5. danifulger's Avatar
    If this quoted excerpt is essentially your thesis, then I simply will have to disagree.
    Could you tell why ? Users are starting slowly but surely to get tired of fast half baked products such as Android.
    to me that point you mentioned about in that thread is not valid, because you don't need an SDK provided the way it is said there when you could use plain HTML5 CSS3 JAVASCRIPT and plain C language but this is as I've said for another thread in the BB 10 Apps section which is anyway buried at the bottom of the Blackberry 10 sections pile and doesn't get the exposure it deserves....
    gugomat likes this.
    03-05-16 06:54 AM
  6. app_Developer's Avatar
    This reminds me of the advertisements for assisted living homes for the sick and elderly where they advertise that these will be the best years of your life.

    Your English is great; your argument is a major stretch. Operating systems are not put into maintenance mode because they have been perfected. They are put into maintenance mode because they are approaching end of life and are not worth any significant new investment.
    03-05-16 06:56 AM
  7. danifulger's Avatar
    This reminds me of the advertisements for assisted living homes for the sick and elderly where they advertise that these will be the best years of your life.

    Your English is great; your argument is a major stretch. Operating systems are not put into maintenance mode because they have been perfected. They are put into maintenance mode because they are approaching end of life and are not worth any significant new investment.
    Thank you. Could you tell which Blackberry 10 features do you believe that are missing to put it in the Stable development "GO fast" high pressure, deliver fast, buggy software mode instead of the Maintenance "move slow, built things", achieve military grade certifications, Integrity like, QNX competitor, EAL6 ratings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integr...rating_system) ?
    03-05-16 07:22 AM
  8. early2bed's Avatar
    Just because you stop working on something and lay off your software developers does not mean the OS is done. Otherwise, I don't know what Apple, Google, and Microsoft are doing with all of their programmers. Are they that bad at getting things finished? webOS is also done but I don't see anyone using it to make new smartphones.
    03-05-16 07:31 AM
  9. danifulger's Avatar
    Just because you stop working on something and lay off your software developers does not mean the OS is done. Otherwise, I don't know what Apple, Google, and Microsoft are doing with all of their programmers. Are they that bad at getting things finished? webOS is also done but I don't see anyone using it to make new smartphones.
    Could you please tell if you are referring to the Apple programmers or the army of Apple "motivated" developer$?
    03-05-16 07:42 AM
  10. app_Developer's Avatar
    Thank you. Could you tell which Blackberry 10 features do you believe that are missing to put it in the Stable development "GO fast" high pressure, deliver fast, buggy software mode instead of the Maintenance "move slow, built things", achieve military grade certifications, Integrity like, QNX competitor, EAL6 ratings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integr...rating_system) ?
    Off the top of my head: the new Android runtime and all of the new Android APIs that BB10 doesn't yet support. A modern task queuing or thread mgmt framework like we have on Android and iOS. Support for payment networks. Support for the newest Qualcomm SoC's. Faster and more efficient 3D engine. Support for HTTP2. More VPN integration options. A native lightweight physics engine. The ability to remote launch apps and give them a few cycles in response to events. More consistent battery performance. A more capable high level animation framework like we have on iOS. A peer to peer comms framework that seamlessly spans Wifi/WICED/BLE

    I could think of others. And I could also think of a similar list for iOS or Android or WP10. They all have backlogs of things still left to do.

    This is the Red Queen hypothesis. It applies to technology ecosystems just as well as it does to natural ones. You constantly evolve and progress or you die. That's how it works. The engineers at BB haven't closed the book on BB10 and said "yes we're done now". They've all been fired and they work at Google and Apple and other places now. That's why BB10 is in maintenance mode.
    03-05-16 07:47 AM
  11. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    I bet somebody is googling frantically right now.
    03-05-16 10:10 AM
  12. danifulger's Avatar
    Off the top of my head: the new Android runtime and all of the new Android APIs that
    Why would it need Blackberry to provide and support new Android APIs (we are talking 'bout BB10 here right not the Priv)? If a developer wants some they could get it from the software providers themselves ? eg. Telegram APIS from Telegram providers https://core.telegram.org/#telegram-api
    the new Android runtime, isn't this causing more troubles than anything else at the moment and as stated in this thread post no#50 by the persons who ported the Qnx core ? http://forums.crackberry.com/blackbe...58/index2.html
    https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/black...ntent_res_name

    A modern task queuing or thread mgmt framework? I thought that BB10 is years ahead on this? isn't the QNX microkernel so much better than the other two at task queuing. The QNX Neutrino Microkernel

    "Support for payment networks." true but let's not forget that Apple made important acquisitions to make this happen.
    Support for the newest Qualcomm SoC's - maybe they are going with Intel instead
    "Faster and more efficient 3D engine." OK
    "Support for HTTP2." there is a controversy and some criticism on it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTTP/2#Criticisms
    "More VPN integration options." shouldn't be a problem IPsec
    the physics engine is related to the 3d engine should be easy, you need the right programming language, C is not made for this, even C++ is limited.
    "The ability to remote launch apps and give them a few cycles in response to events. " are you referring to TDC because QNX and BB10 can do so much more than remote launching apps.... since 1998 United States Patent: 6697876

    "A more capable high level animation framework like we have on iOS. " yes but Ios uses Objective C and Swift which are in a different league than the C language all together. It should still be possible ...
    " A peer to peer comms framework that seamlessly spans Wifi/WICED/BLE" i don't get the framework part...qnx has the ability to easily surpass any competitor it's in a different league of it's own. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QNX#Tr...ted_Processing

    Out of all the points if there are 2 maybe 3 that I agree with ..support for payment networks and support for the newest ARM/Qualcomm, and a 3d engine let's say. For the rest we just need programmers to fully take advantage of the possibilities BB10 and the Z10, Z30, the Classic, the Passport and Q5 are offering. They didn't even scratch the surface yet..if we think about two cellphones different sims, same cell number and the cars OS accessing and synching each other resources in real time through transparent distributed processing...and this is just the beginning...
    Last edited by danifulger; 03-05-16 at 10:51 AM.
    sid89 likes this.
    03-05-16 10:33 AM
  13. thurask's Avatar
    Why would it need Blackberry to provide and support new Android APIs (we are talking 'bout BB10 here right not the Priv)? If a developer wants some they could get it from the software providers themselves ? eg. Telegram APIS from Telegram providers https://core.telegram.org/#telegram-api
    No, no, Android API levels. The BB10 runtime is stuck on Jellybean, so any Android apps that use anything from after Jellybean are non-starters. That proportion changes daily.
    03-05-16 12:42 PM
  14. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    code collision
    What is a "code collision"?
    03-05-16 12:53 PM
  15. app_Developer's Avatar
    Ok, this is a bit tedious so I'm not going to go through all of them. The developer interface to task mgmt in QNX is literally 20+ years old and is not at the same capability level as what we get at the library level in iOS. To use the QNX version efficiently requires knowledge of other processes that you can't have. QNX was really cool in the 1990's. Unfortunately for BB, it's now 2016.

    And like the 3D or physics no 3rd party developer is going to write that for them. The cost has to be amortized over thousands of applications for it to make any economic sense.

    Btw, the difficulties in implementing http2 could result in 2 new standards, not 1. Even more work for the BB10 team that doesn't even exist anymore. I hope you got my point that no OS is ever, ever done. The only reason you stop working is because it is dead and the world has moved on.
    JeepBB and Uzi like this.
    03-05-16 12:54 PM
  16. early2bed's Avatar
    It doesn't matter whether they call it maintenance mode or not. If there are no new devices coming then it pretty much ceases to exist as far as developers are concerned. 3rd party software sales go into maintenance mode, also, with sales dwindling but still making money because nothing is being done to the apps. Every software developer has the experience of getting a check for software that they have not thought about for years.
    JeepBB and johnnyuk like this.
    03-05-16 12:59 PM
  17. danifulger's Avatar
    What is a "code collision"?
    what do you believe to be code collision? I know you can do it, you don't have to be a programmer for that...
    03-05-16 01:08 PM
  18. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    what do you believe to be code collision? I know you can do it, you don't have to be a programmer for that...
    Anybody else know what a code collision is?
    I'm thinking danifulger just made it up.
    03-05-16 01:13 PM
  19. howarmat's Avatar
    03-05-16 01:16 PM
  20. danifulger's Avatar
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	3b2.jpg 
Views:	771 
Size:	63.8 KB 
ID:	393285
    Attached Thumbnails My view on BlackBerry 10 and its Maintenance mode...-aspirationdemotivator_large.jpg  
    03-05-16 01:45 PM
  21. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    Ok, this is a bit tedious so I'm not going to go through all of them. The developer interface to task mgmt in QNX is literally 20+ years old and is not at the same capability level as what we get at the library level in iOS. To use the QNX version efficiently requires knowledge of other processes that you can't have. QNX was really cool in the 1990's. Unfortunately for BB, it's now 2016.

    And like the 3D or physics no 3rd party developer is going to write that for them. The cost has to be amortized over thousands of applications for it to make any economic sense.

    Btw, the difficulties in implementing http2 could result in 2 new standards, not 1. Even more work for the BB10 team that doesn't even exist anymore. I hope you got my point that no OS is ever, ever done. The only reason you stop working is because it is dead and the world has moved on.
    What capabilities is it missing?
    03-05-16 01:48 PM
  22. Sir Reaper's Avatar
    Sorry but let's face facts, public opinion is key when it comes to the marketing and selling of mobile devices, when the general public hear maintenance mode and sees that there are no new devices they will come to the logical conclusion, and that is that BlackBerry OS10 is dead. Maybe you should also accept this, all you have to do is take a look and see how the apps are falling by the wayside. Am I happy about this? No, because I loathe Android and iOS I came back to BlackBerry and I will use my Z30 for a while yet although when whatsapp stops working that will unfortunately be the end of the road for me.

    Why BlackBerry? Because I can!
    03-05-16 01:49 PM
  23. danifulger's Avatar
    Ok, this is a bit tedious so I'm not going to go through all of them. The developer interface to task mgmt in QNX is literally 20+ years old and is not at the same capability level as what we get at the library level in iOS. To use the QNX version efficiently requires knowledge of other processes that you can't have. QNX was really cool in the 1990's. Unfortunately for BB, it's now 2016.

    And like the 3D or physics no 3rd party developer is going to write that for them. The cost has to be amortized over thousands of applications for it to make any economic sense.

    Btw, the difficulties in implementing http2 could result in 2 new standards, not 1. Even more work for the BB10 team that doesn't even exist anymore. I hope you got my point that no OS is ever, ever done. The only reason you stop working is because it is dead and the world has moved on.
    not sure about the tedious part meaning but here it is...Qnx was open sourced through the open source model so technically speaking you should have access to those resources. really I can't believe they didn't update the interface in 20+ years. if we compare apples to apples we should compare the task management DI for BB10 with the task management DI of IOS?
    On the 3d engine and physics...why would a 3rd party developer develop a 3DE or PE for Blackberry? It could be a cross platform engine? This is why we have Github and the like, for distributed teams working on open source projects? Every company does it and tries to involve the community. No company wants to do it entirely in house these days..eg. Facebook's latest project react native https://github.com/trending/java?since=monthly

    Why do we have to involve all the time the BB10 team?
    03-05-16 02:12 PM
  24. app_Developer's Avatar
    What capabilities is it missing?
    I want to be able to create, at runtime, arbitrary blocks of code, have them capture some state and scheduled on queues. The trick is i want this totally integrated with all the rest of the frameworks I'm working with such that this actually works well in practice. I.e. here's a block/lambda/whatever can I can hand to someone else's framework and have that framework schedule that block on a queue of my choosing at the appropriate time. When this in integrated through the whole OS (not just the kernel!) you end up being able to build truly evented processing with a very low thread count.

    What you don't have to do, and this is key, is spin up and manage threads. Threads are too expensive on phones, and you can't know how to manage that expense because you can't know what threads other apps and processes are using. The OS, however, does and so I'd rather have the OS manage that for me.

    Neutrino itself, deep in the bowels of BB10, is capable of this, and even capable of doing this in user space. But it's not nearly as useful there with those primitive APIs as it is in iOS and WP10 where that is woven all the way up through the stack, and neatly supported in the language(s) themselves. In short, one thing BB10 would have needed, if it hadn't already died, was something like Apple's GCD integrated into all of the BB10 frameworks that a developer uses and with language level support. (This would also lead to changes in BB10 process model since some of this efficiency is less useful if your app has to be running all of the time)

    I hear Microsoft has made some good progress on this in WP10, but I've not used that yet myself.

    Again, this is absurd to spend time talking about a dead OS. The premise of this thread is that BB10 didn't die, but that BlackBerry actually dropped the mic. The assertion is that BB10 is feature complete and that it is why it is in maintenance mode.

    I'm saying that is an absolutely absurd assertion for *any* operating system. The industry moves quickly, there is always, always, something new to add unless you don't see a future in the OS and you've moved on. BlackBerry has moved on.
    03-05-16 03:11 PM
  25. app_Developer's Avatar
    Facebook's latest project react native https://github.com/trending/java?since=monthly

    Why do we have to involve all the time the BB10 team?
    I assume you realize Facebook has a good size team working on React? Look at the commit log and count how many commits come from within Facebook.
    03-05-16 03:13 PM
92 123 ...

Similar Threads

  1. Help me Please! Deleted BlackBerry ID
    By ViktorOTitov in forum BlackBerry 10 OS
    Replies: 60
    Last Post: 05-23-17, 11:22 AM
  2. HELP! Priv Won't Turn On
    By europolska00 in forum BlackBerry Priv
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 03-11-17, 03:55 PM
  3. BlackBerry Bridge update?
    By akavbb in forum BlackBerry 10 OS
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 04-02-16, 06:28 AM
  4. How do I add my group to crackberry forums?
    By CrackBerry Question in forum Ask a Question
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 03-11-16, 08:37 PM
  5. Blackberry q5
    By adammos in forum Ask a Question
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 03-05-16, 12:29 AM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD