11-24-13 05:44 PM
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  1. waterfrontmgmt's Avatar
    I agree....I don't think the majority of their future niche is going to care about apps that much. But i think they will attract a lot of people on the fringe by adding Google Play and simplifying loading android apps. If you look at all the high end, elite power users like news reporters, sports reporters, music and actor managers and agents....they are doing good just to execute an OTA update on their phones. Most of them are still on the 9900/9930 because they also do not like to learn how to use new phones/OS's. But in the next two years, you will see most of them move over to the Q...or whatever the current keyboard phone that is out at the time their 9900 loses it's legs.
    Hi I came to blackberry in January from years of Android, my Z10 and later Q5/Z30 have had no problems, And the few apps I need are in Blackberry world, side loading is no problem but the average user is not interested and Blackberry is getting there with being able to go to a Android app store and simple download soon
    11-20-13 10:30 AM
  2. GadgetTravel's Avatar
    I agree....I don't think the majority of their future niche is going to care about apps that much. But i think they will attract a lot of people on the fringe by adding Google Play and simplifying loading android apps. If you look at all the high end, elite power users like news reporters, sports reporters, music and actor managers and agents....they are doing good just to execute an OTA update on their phones. Most of them are still on the 9900/9930 because they also do not like to learn how to use new phones/OS's. But in the next two years, you will see most of them move over to the Q...or whatever the current keyboard phone that is out at the time their 9900 loses it's legs.

    Most power users I see have iPhones or androids already, although some still have BBs.
    11-20-13 10:36 AM
  3. waterfrontmgmt's Avatar
    Not in the elite areas I mentioned above. I very rarely see an iPhone with these type of execs....their clients yes, but not the executives.
    Most power users I see have iPhones or androids already, although some still have BBs.
    11-20-13 10:59 AM
  4. GadgetTravel's Avatar
    Not in the elite areas I mentioned above. I very rarely see an iPhone with these type of execs....their clients yes, but not the executives.
    Different definitions of elites. I'm talking physicians, bankers, Wall Street folks. The latter often have both in my experience. But the bottom line is that there I think that aren't enough in the groups you mentioned, whether we call them elites or not, to save BB.
    11-20-13 11:04 AM
  5. waterfrontmgmt's Avatar
    Time will tell. Doctors may be elite, but they are not exactly known to be communicators. Lawyers in my experience are and all of the ones I know use BlackBerry. But I don't think anyone here, including the CB team, have any idea of if their core "niche" market will be enough to support life for the company. I still think more cuts are coming.

    Posted via CB10
    11-20-13 12:42 PM
  6. GadgetTravel's Avatar
    Time will tell. Doctors may be elite, but they are not exactly known to be communicators. Lawyers in my experience are and all of the ones I know use BlackBerry. But I don't think anyone here, including the CB team, have any idea of if their core "niche" market will be enough to support life for the company. I still think more cuts are coming.

    Posted via CB10
    It doesn't matter how you define elites though, there are vastly more physicians than sports reporters. And the apps available for physicians and lots of others will keep them with iOS or Android. Same with many others. Smartphones aren't for just communication now. The ones using them for that aren't the power users in my opinion. The power users are the ones using their phones for mobile computing. But again, those are just opinions. The bottom line is that I think the occupations you mention are a tiny fraction of a needed market for a smartphone maker. So yes, I agree the worst is likely yet to come.
    11-20-13 01:24 PM
  7. waterfrontmgmt's Avatar
    Yes, it's just a different opinion of what a power user is. In terms of Blackberry, I always think of people hammering away on a keyboard. And I think, ultimately, that is who will make up the core of what BlackBerry has to work with. That's not a good thing...but I think that is what is down the road.

    And my guess is that will drive cost up device cost. And who will pay $1000 for a smart phone? Those elite power users I mentioned (and me). That might not be how it plays out...but don't be surprised if it does.

    Posted via CB10
    11-20-13 03:08 PM
  8. M65c02's Avatar
    It doesn't matter how you define elites though, there are vastly more physicians than sports reporters. And the apps available for physicians and lots of others will keep them with iOS or Android. Same with many others. Smartphones aren't for just communication now. The ones using them for that aren't the power users in my opinion. The power users are the ones using their phones for mobile computing. ... The bottom line is that I think the occupations you mention are a tiny fraction of a needed market for a smartphone maker. So yes, I agree the worst is likely yet to come.
    Agree with the bold statement.

    Yes, it's just a different opinion of what a power user is. In terms of Blackberry, I always think of people hammering away on a keyboard. And I think, ultimately, that is who will make up the core of what BlackBerry has to work with. That's not a good thing...but I think that is what is down the road.

    And my guess is that will drive cost up device cost. And who will pay $1000 for a smart phone? Those elite power users I mentioned (and me). That might not be how it plays out...but don't be surprised if it does.
    Difficult to see this scenario: That period has long since gone. Just as the desk-top or laptop would have never taken off had it not dropped below $1000, no way a cell phone company is going to survive. Albeit true, exclusivity has its niche in certain products, such exclusivity rarely has to do with functionality. Your elites (or anybody's definition of elites), will not pay $1,000 for a phone that does what a $500 phone will do simply to flash it around the bar/restaurant. Sure, some trendy name brand clothes, accessories, etc. can support (usually temporarily) prices well over competitors based solely on a consumer's ability to flash to the World that they have paid 5-10x simply for a name brand. This is an attempt to define oneself as an elite (and wealthy) exclusively through wearing a price tag on one's sleeve (so to speak). There is only so much you can do in an efficient manner from a cell phone and, of course, BB will never have the inside track on a comprehensive eco-system such as Apple, MSFT, and even Google has now positioned themselves. (Such comprehensive eco-system will be for a certain elitist, probably won't highly correlate with wealth, and is not that important

    Difficult to see any elitist phenom happen with cells phones and, especially, with BB. Sure when first introduced in the 80's a few people carried cell phones without any real need and simply intended to show their wealth (or style through the latest gadgetry). But today, even Apple cannot command a premium above 10-15%. BB's are seen with execs primarily because some CIO has made the decision to use BB a decade ago and, frankly, it is a difficult process to change. ... (And as for govt, forget it, they'll always be a decade behind corporations.) H'mmm, little different from corp/govt stories of the past 5 decades, at least where technology is concerned. This has been both a boon and scourge for BB; legacy phones continue to outsell OS10 phones ... and BB's are still known for the Bolds carried as a 2nd or 3rd phone and only as given by corp/govt.

    Difficult even if BB somehow can re-establish its reputation to where people might want to be seen with one, let alone have the public view BBs as a piece of fine and exclusive jewelry-type extra. A market for a $1000 cell phone -- BB or other -- will never exist (in 2013 $), at least to support profits (inc. R&D). Remember, we are really looking at ~20mm "well priced" phones per year for a cell phone company to even survive (especially with soft/hardware products), let alone fund state of the art future enhancements that keep you on top. Almost needless to say, BB's latest generation of phones account for 0% of the market. Don't short-change the Apps: Apps and App development is critical, and always will be, even if only 1,000 so called. Tell me again, what elitist group is going to buy a BB for $300, let alone $1,000, that isn't a (convenient) part of an eco-system, has some limitations on Apps, and with a problem reputation?? BB will be out of business long, long before they demand $1000 for a phone.....

    One step at a time: Keep the price (at) no higher than $500 for the high end OS10 model(s), don't confuse with too many models, and make OS10 as dependable as OS5/7 for the "hammering" while assuring that the 500 most sought after Apps. are always current.
    Last edited by M65c02; 11-23-13 at 09:51 AM. Reason: Clarity--$500 means below level of high end Apples or Droids
    11-21-13 06:51 PM
  9. waterfrontmgmt's Avatar
    The market I am talking about doesn't care about trends or they would already have iPhones. I am talking about people that mainly care about a good keyboard. To me, that's about all BlackBerry has left.

    If they can keep those people, and at the same time grab those people on the edge, they have a shot. Android apps help widen that net, for sure. So does getting BB10 fined tuned as best possible.

    Posted via CB10
    11-21-13 07:04 PM
  10. M65c02's Avatar
    The market I am talking about doesn't care about trends or they would already have iPhones. I am talking about people that mainly care about a good keyboard. To me, that's about all BlackBerry has left.

    If they can keep those people, and at the same time grab those people on the edge, they have a shot. Android apps help widen that net, for sure. So does getting BB10 fined tuned as best possible.
    Right, I understand and that statement is almost verbatim of what "we" talked about in May, after the apparent (later confirmed real) non-sales of the Z10. Surely, everyone was waiting for the Q10 and its qwerty keyboard and, most especially, BB rollovers from a professed 72+mm base (that actually was more like a 45+mm real base). Except that for many reasons these rollovers didn't occur, let alone any new converts came on board: (1) Most of the user based that would pay for this rollover were on corporate accounts that didn't/wouldn't support OS10 (even as they might, and have in many cases, continued to purchase legacy devices; (2) While Q10's rolled out with a vastly improved 10.1, there were still way too many problems for those that wanted an out-of-the box reliable phone; and (3a) too few Apps even for those not demanding Apps or (3b) too many differences between BB7 and BB OS10 (i.e., not a smooth transition for legacy BB users and the word got out on this pretty quickly).

    Perhaps there can be a resurgence in these BB keyboard phones, perhaps corps/govt will replace their legacy BB communications with Q10's on OS10. But, as things stand, the qwerty phones are simply a back-up 2nd or 3rd phone even to the elite (regardless of definition) crowd. I think that the only relevant question is whether BB can sell 15-20mm OS10 phones knowing that the majority will be as a specialized 2nd or 3rd phone. Is there a growing market for 2nd and 3rd phones, or is this a temporary phenom while other phones become even more adept. Personally, I think that if BB could offer another 2sim (i.e., 2 number) phone as they had with one version of its Curve, this would be a favorable step. (The carriers may not like this but it makes a lot of sense from a practicability stand point.)
    11-22-13 11:03 AM
  11. waterfrontmgmt's Avatar
    I don't know anybody that uses a BlackBerry... legacy or new, as a second device. The "other" device is the second device. There are a lot of BlackBerry users that simply don't want media or a bunch of apps cluttering up their phone. Music, for example. There is no way I could listen to music on my BlackBerry. I would be constantly interuped.
    Right, I understand and that statement is almost verbatim of what "we" talked about in May, after the apparent (later confirmed real) non-sales of the Z10. Surely, everyone was waiting for the Q10 and its qwerty keyboard and, most especially, BB rollovers from a professed 72+mm base (that actually was more like a 45+mm real base). Except that for many reasons these rollovers didn't occur, let alone any new converts came on board: (1) Most of the user based that would pay for this rollover were on corporate accounts that didn't/wouldn't support OS10 (even as they might, and have in many cases, continued to purchase legacy devices; (2) While Q10's rolled out with a vastly improved 10.1, there were still way too many problems for those that wanted an out-of-the box reliable phone; and (3a) too few Apps even for those not demanding Apps or (3b) too many differences between BB7 and BB OS10 (i.e., not a smooth transition for legacy BB users and the word got out on this pretty quickly).

    Perhaps there can be a resurgence in these BB keyboard phones, perhaps corps/govt will replace their legacy BB communications with Q10's on OS10. But, as things stand, the qwerty phones are simply a back-up 2nd or 3rd phone even to the elite (regardless of definition) crowd. I think that the only relevant question is whether BB can sell 15-20mm OS10 phones knowing that the majority will be as a specialized 2nd or 3rd phone. Is there a growing market for 2nd and 3rd phones, or is this a temporary phenom while other phones become even more adept. Personally, I think that if BB could offer another 2sim (i.e., 2 number) phone as they had with one version of its Curve, this would be a favorable step. (The carriers may not like this but it makes a lot of sense from a practicability stand point.)


    Posted via CB10
    11-22-13 11:21 AM
  12. GadgetTravel's Avatar
    I don't know anybody that uses a BlackBerry... legacy or new, as a second device. The "other" device is the second device. There are a lot of BlackBerry users that simply don't want media or a bunch of apps cluttering up their phone. Music, for example. There is no way I could listen to music on my BlackBerry. I would be constantly interuped.




    Posted via CB10

    I see lots of people who do. I am one of them. I use the keyboard for mail. All of my project management, task management, travel related apps, dictation tools, Evernote (which is huge in my workflow as it goes to my assistant and she processes from it) and other communication tools are on the iphone.
    11-22-13 01:25 PM
  13. waterfrontmgmt's Avatar
    That's you. Not sure why you would want to use the BlackBerry for mail, but use the iPhone for text and calendar input.

    All of the things you mention are MUCH easier on BB10 especially if you have 10.2 or later. Do a search for the Remember App and check out how you can use it for an all-in-one organizer. It integrates with Evernote, but has far more device functions. I have had an iPhone 5 for over a year (It is my media device) and it can't touch BB10 in the task management area. I spent a fortune looking for good calendar and task management apps in itunes. Also the dictation/voice command is better on BB10, although I do like Siri for asking questions better than SayIt.
    I see lots of people who do. I am one of them. I use the keyboard for mail. All of my project management, task management, travel related apps, dictation tools, Evernote (which is huge in my workflow as it goes to my assistant and she processes from it) and other communication tools are on the iphone.


    Posted via CB10
    11-22-13 01:50 PM
  14. GadgetTravel's Avatar
    That's you. Not sure why you would want to use the BlackBerry for mail, but use the iPhone for text and calendar input.

    All of the things you mention are MUCH easier on BB10 especially if you have 10.2 or later. Do a search for the Remember App and check out how you can use it for an all-in-one organizer. It integrates with Evernote, but has far more device functions. I have had an iPhone 5 for over a year (It is my media device) and it can't touch BB10 in the task management area. I spent a fortune looking for good calendar and task management apps in itunes. Also the dictation/voice command is better on BB10, although I do like Siri for asking questions better than SayIt.




    Posted via CB10

    Sorry, Remember is a pale version of Evernote in my experience. I have multiple Evernote accounts, I use the Moleskine notebooks which have a photo compatible function built into Android and iOS. I always have a notebook in my pocket. I have coded symbols for how to process things that I include in the notes, such as add to my task list, and I photograph the pages using the app and it uploads to my work Evernote and my assistant processes it, adds to my task list, sets up appointments for me based on the notes or whatever.

    For tasks I havent seen anything on the BB that can touch Omnifocus. I can access it with Siri to add tasks and it syncs across all of my devices - desktop, notebooks and iPads. Much better than anything I have seen in BB, not even close. Also the software that was called Dictamus, they just changed the name, is a full featured dictation machine that after I dictate I can decide where to send it. My options are to my assistant, who can transcribe it with Dragon Naturally Speaking, or to a 24x7x365 transcription service. I flew to Tokyo last year and wrote a lot on the plane. Got to my hotel, read the dictation to my phone app, it was the weekend so my assistant was off and I sent it to the service. Took a short nap and the word file of the transcription is in my email when I get up. The best calendar I have seen is actually only available in BB7 and now iOS, although I like the BB7 version better (Pocket Informant). For managing the people who work for me and coordinating projects with outside groups I use Basecamp primarily which has a good iOS app.
    11-22-13 02:04 PM
  15. chrispmoto's Avatar
    You know what I really like about BlackBerry??
    That not every clown around has one....
    We are all just a bit different, in a good way!

    Posted via CB10
    11-22-13 02:10 PM
  16. z10zaidm's Avatar
    The OS is success, but the lack of apps annoys me so much.
    The device itself annoys me I am planning for Samsung s5

    Posted via CB10
    11-22-13 02:10 PM
  17. waterfrontmgmt's Avatar
    You do know that Remember does all that...plus a lot of things Evernote can't do, right? I am a fan of Evernote, but the only time I use it now is when I am on my PC. And it syncs with Remember. I could never figure out how to set a reminder with Evernote. That is a must for me. I also can't figure how how you pop a text or email into Evernote. Maybe I am missing something. I like to be able to take anything on my phone, and click it into my calendar. I have to have a great calendar or my business will be difficult to manage. I use to use PI and got it for the iPhone. The app itself is ok, with color options, etc. As soon as something decent comes out on BB10 that syncs with Remember, I will probably get it. My business doesn't have a clock. It's 24/7 and 365. Plus I have ADHD.
    Sorry, Remember is a pale version of Evernote in my experience. I have multiple Evernote accounts, I use the Moleskine notebooks which have a photo compatible function built into Android and iOS. I always have a notebook in my pocket. I have coded symbols for how to process things that I include in the notes, such as add to my task list, and I photograph the pages using the app and it uploads to my work Evernote and my assistant processes it, adds to my task list, sets up appointments for me based on the notes or whatever.

    For tasks I havent seen anything on the BB that can touch Omnifocus. I can access it with Siri to add tasks and it syncs across all of my devices - desktop, notebooks and iPads. Much better than anything I have seen in BB, not even close. Also the software that was called Dictamus, they just changed the name, is a full featured dictation machine that after I dictate I can decide where to send it. My options are to my assistant, who can transcribe it with Dragon Naturally Speaking, or to a 24x7x365 transcription service. I flew to Tokyo last year and wrote a lot on the plane. Got to my hotel, read the dictation to my phone app, it was the weekend so my assistant was off and I sent it to the service. Took a short nap and the word file of the transcription is in my email when I get up. The best calendar I have seen is actually only available in BB7 and now iOS, although I like the BB7 version better (Pocket Informant). For managing the people who work for me and coordinating projects with outside groups I use Basecamp primarily which has a good iOS app.
    Last edited by waterfrontmgmt; 11-22-13 at 02:54 PM.
    11-22-13 02:36 PM
  18. GadgetTravel's Avatar
    You do know that Remember does all that...plus a lot of things Evernote can't do, right? I am a fan of Evernote, but the only time I use it now is when I am on my PC. And it syncs with Remember. I could never figure out how to set a reminder with Evernote. That is a must for me. I also can't figure how how you pop a text or email into Evernote. Maybe I am missing something. I like to be able to take anything on my phone, and click it into my calendar. I have to have a great calendar or my business will be difficult to manage. I use to use PI and got it for the iPhone. The app itself is ok, with color options, etc. As soon as something decent comes out on BB10 that syncs with Remember, I will probably get it. My business doesn't have a clock. It's 24/7 and 365. Plus I have ADHD.
    No, I dont see either the ability to access multiple Evernote accounts nor the Moleskine notebook photo template on my BB in Remember. In checking the Evernote web pages they list iOS and Android as being supported by the "page camera" functionality. I use the iOS reminder function or Omnifocus for reminders. If it is a quick thing, call Bob at 9 say, I just use iOS reminders. I can do it on any of my Macs, my phone or ipad and at 9 it appears on all of them. If I make it with the phone or iPad I can use Siri. I can also have Siri add to other lists in reminders (such as tomorrows priorities) or to Omnifocus.
    11-22-13 04:17 PM
  19. waterfrontmgmt's Avatar
    I'm not sure what you mean about the reminders. Does OmniFocus integrate with the calendar? How do you get your Evernote reminders onto your iPhone calendar. It sounds like you are using two separate functions, unless I am missing something. Also I am curious of what benefit it would be to have mutilple Evernote accounts? Is it a privacy issue?
    No, I dont see either the ability to access multiple Evernote accounts nor the Moleskine notebook photo template on my BB in Remember. In checking the Evernote web pages they list iOS and Android as being supported by the "page camera" functionality. I use the iOS reminder function or Omnifocus for reminders. If it is a quick thing, call Bob at 9 say, I just use iOS reminders. I can do it on any of my Macs, my phone or ipad and at 9 it appears on all of them. If I make it with the phone or iPad I can use Siri. I can also have Siri add to other lists in reminders (such as tomorrows priorities) or to Omnifocus.


    Posted via CB10
    11-22-13 04:55 PM
  20. M65c02's Avatar
    I don't know anybody that uses a BlackBerry... legacy or new, as a second device. The "other" device is the second device. There are a lot of BlackBerry users that simply don't want media or a bunch of apps cluttering up their phone. Music, for example. There is no way I could listen to music on my BlackBerry. I would be constantly interuped.
    Perhaps you are in Canada, that's the only thing I can figure out. But, it's not a matter of necessarily knowing someone, simply go into any restaurant or airplane terminal. It is impossible (in the U.S. or London)not to see literally dozens (depends on time obviously) pull out their bolds, then Droids/Apples. And, of course, some don't pull both but doubtless when you see a bold with a well-heeled, there's something else in another pocket. The only place I've seen legacy BB devices w/o another is in S.A., and sometimes the Far East, where cheaper legacy BBs sold well in 2010-12 but are now in run-off.

    Believe it, that is the preponderance of the market (along with non-contract usage) for legacies and, of course, an OS10 phone can't be found (~%) outside of Canada. As another poster indicated earlier, the elite (regardless of definition) already has shifted to Droid/IOS. Even as some of these "elites" are issued BB legacies, they use their Droid/IOS personal phones for many business/elite functions that can't be handled by their BB devices. (And, just to repeat, the rollover from BB corp/govt, and other legacy users, to Q10s hasn't, or has yet to, materialize.)

    So, elevating any BB phone to some sort of an elite status is a tough future row to hoe.
    Last edited by M65c02; 11-23-13 at 09:54 AM.
    11-22-13 04:57 PM
  21. waterfrontmgmt's Avatar
    I am in the States and I work with rock stars. All the big managers, promoters and agents are still on BlackBerry's. I know some sports agents that are still on BBOS and use the iPhone for photos. But once they transition to the Q, that will become less of an issue.

    Posted via CB10
    11-22-13 05:03 PM
  22. kenicolo's Avatar
    Where is your store? And what is the carrier? Just curious

    Posted via CB10
    Canada / Qu�bec / Videotron

    Posted via CB10
    11-22-13 07:14 PM
  23. GadgetTravel's Avatar
    I'm not sure what you mean about the reminders. Does OmniFocus integrate with the calendar? How do you get your Evernote reminders onto your iPhone calendar. It sounds like you are using two separate functions, unless I am missing something. Also I am curious of what benefit it would be to have mutilple Evernote accounts? Is it a privacy issue?




    Posted via CB10

    I have a work Evernote account that I pay with my work budget and my assistant has complete access to. I have a personal one for, well personal stuff, that I pay for. Hobbies, personal clippings to read, restaurants or whatever. I don't use Evernote for reminders. I use iOS mainly although for actual calendar items they are on the Exchange server which is managed by my assistant for the most part. It also links to the people who work for me so that we use Exhange to organize meetings.
    11-22-13 09:33 PM
  24. waterfrontmgmt's Avatar
    Gotya. You are using an assistant to do some of the functions some use their phone for. Nothing wrong with that. I still don't see why you wouldn't use Remember? Evernote is integrated...so you could still integrate your business Evernote account. Do you not get emails or texts that require action...ie put on a Calendar? Nothing does that better than Remember.
    I have a work Evernote account that I pay with my work budget and my assistant has complete access to. I have a personal one for, well personal stuff, that I pay for. Hobbies, personal clippings to read, restaurants or whatever. I don't use Evernote for reminders. I use iOS mainly although for actual calendar items they are on the Exchange server which is managed by my assistant for the most part. It also links to the people who work for me so that we use Exhange to organize meetings.


    Posted via CB10
    11-22-13 11:27 PM
  25. GadgetTravel's Avatar
    Gotya. You are using an assistant to do some of the functions some use their phone for. Nothing wrong with that. I still don't see why you wouldn't use Remember? Evernote is integrated...so you could still integrate your business Evernote account. Do you not get emails or texts that require action...ie put on a Calendar? Nothing does that better than Remember.




    Posted via CB10
    My main use for Evernote is the page photo app to record and transmit notes I make. That isn't in remember. I do respond to emails although I try to cluster those and do them in groups. I also file a lot in a folder for my assistant to deal with on her own or in discussions with me. We meet a few times a week to go over them. If I have to add them to my task list I forward to an Omnifocus server. It sends them back to me more or less instantly formatted for entry to Omnifocus. I can be at my desktop or on my phone or iPad and when I get the return email there is a space that says click here to add to Omnifocus, I click and it is on my task list, and that migrates to all my devices.
    Last edited by GadgetTravel; 11-23-13 at 07:18 AM.
    11-23-13 12:24 AM
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