03-13-16 02:30 PM
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  1. ravencore's Avatar
    Oh goodie, security enhancements and certifications!
    Posted via CB10
    Yeah i'm not exactly excited about certifications either .
    But, lets say you're a niche phone company in a financial pinch. You think your system has potential but it's not getting adopted fast enough and your running out of money.
    You could just put up the surrender flag and kill the OS off altogether, which is what a lot of people think BlackBerry is doing.

    Or, you could temporarily join the enemy (aka release the google priv) to hopefully get more sales, which allows you to stay in the game for longer and get into good graces with android consumers, while still funding development of bb10 which they have already put millions of investment into.

    So I just think scenario 2 is possible and people are maybe panicking too much that bb10 is totally dead now.

    Although admittedly, BlackBerry should be communicating that better if that is the plan.. so maybe it isn't too likely, in which case scenario 1 is more likely.
    Last edited by ravencore; 03-09-16 at 10:32 PM.
    03-09-16 10:15 PM
  2. howarmat's Avatar
    If they only care about money that is true.. but if they care about making the best phone, they would still want to keep developing their own system (since in theory they would have thought it better).

    But I guess we will see how it plays out. I just think it's slightly possible that the CEO actually has intentions to keep BB10 around.
    if they intended to keep BB10 around and keep developing it they would have more than a bakers dozen of bb10 devs still around.
    03-09-16 10:20 PM
  3. EFats's Avatar
    if they intended to keep BB10 around and keep developing it they would have more than a bakers dozen of bb10 devs still around.
    Well we don't know how many BB10 devs they have on staff, do we? Never mind that a bakers dozen of good (not even great) SW engineers are enough for support and porting to new devices with 2-3 year cycle on device releases. I consider BB phones to be more like industrial equipment where release cycles are on much longer time scales than crazy consumer stuff.

    It would be dumb not to put BB10 on Priv since the hardware is already done, but it would make sense to prioritize the Android version first. BB should actually follow that strategy for majority of phone releases...my opinion anyways. Once the hardware is done, even additional sales in the 10,000's range (which is nothing) is enough to recover the cost of putting BB10 on the phone.
    ravencore likes this.
    03-09-16 10:47 PM
  4. ravencore's Avatar
    if they intended to keep BB10 around and keep developing it they would have more than a bakers dozen of bb10 devs still around.
    I'm not totally disagreeing with you since you could be right.. but when Apple was on its death throes in the 90s they didn't have many designers on hand either, yet they have plenty now.
    It could be just a temporary staffing choice.

    But then again.. the thing that makes me go against my own argument is that if I was the BlackBerry CEO and planned to keep supporting the OS (just after the priv) I would have been more bold about it I wouldn't say things like "maintenance updates" and being vague like he is about future plans.. that kind of talk does sound like he has given up especially in the high tech world of phones and would only speed up the decline of the OS..

    But then he also said he might give up all phones altogether - so maybe just being honest with customers that the priv is the last shot. I don't know if it was wise to be so honest though - especially with an $800 "enterprise" phone that corporations might have to send back for battery replacement services to a company that publicly says they might no longer do phones.
    Last edited by ravencore; 03-10-16 at 12:47 AM.
    03-10-16 12:33 AM
  5. quizm's Avatar
    As much as I like bb10, I think the strategy for its phase out should be laid out plainly. There just isn't a market for many OSs and unfortunately BlackBerry lost out. I am not an expert but the Android dominance will only advance and BlackBerry should embrace it much more quickly. The challenge is to bring its DNA to Android and do so as quickly as possible. BlackBerry can do it if it retains superiority in security and privacy. Right now it's wait and see strategy on handsets is a no go. It entered the android space with Priv on a very testy footing. You can't be shy in this game. Unfortunately I see very little commitment by management to handsets and it is killing BlackBerry as we know it.

    Posted via CB10
    ravencore likes this.
    03-10-16 01:14 AM
  6. ravencore's Avatar
    Right now it's wait and see strategy on handsets is a no go. It entered the android space with Priv on a very testy footing. You can't be shy in this game. Unfortunately I see very little commitment by management to handsets and it is killing BlackBerry as we know it.

    Posted via CB10

    Yep "wait and see" is a suicide position for a phone launch. Seems Chen doesn't have a heart in the game - and if he doesn't believe in his own product I can't see how it's going to do well. But lets hope .
    03-10-16 01:34 AM
  7. uncle_numpty's Avatar
    Actualy, this seems pretty resoanable to me.

    It would also make sense for BBRY to bridge the app gap by providing in house conversion teams to convert apps to BB10 - I realise companies don't like letting their IP out of house but that's what NDA's are for.

    Seeing as BBRY is positioning itself as a software entity surely it begs the question why they don't have the expertise to accomplish this.

    It would boost BB10's application suite and provide more secure versions of popular apps.
    03-10-16 02:27 AM
  8. ubizmo's Avatar
    I would just point out that native application development seems to have picked up a tad, recently. It's almost as if the EOL for BB10 announcements have spurred certain devs to action and attracted a few new ones.

    Can't think why...
    Yes, this has been noticed. For small, independent developers, the current state of things helps their apps to get noticed. We're starved for news here on CB, so new apps, and even updates of existing BB10 apps, get attention. But is this resulting in meaningful income for the developers? I don't know, but I have to doubt it.

    I use my Passport one or two days a week lately; the rest of the time I'm on Android (not Priv). But I still check BBW regularly for anything new that might be interesting. And if I see something I might have a use for, I buy it. I suppose it's sheer sentimentalism on my part, but I just like to see BB10 apps getting released or getting updates, and the only way I know to support that is to buy them.

    I suppose there's some scenario where BB10 makes a comeback this way. Users refuse to let it die; devs keep pumping out better and better apps; at some point BlackBerry notices and....then I wake up and go to the bathroom.
    ravencore likes this.
    03-10-16 07:24 AM
  9. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    The bargaining phase thread.
    03-10-16 07:29 AM
  10. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Chen has said he isn't emotional about hardware....

    I think too many here want to believe that Chen will go out of his way to save BB10.... Me I think Chen is done with BB10, he just knows he can't tell customers that, until he has sold inventory or until he has a viable solution that is different from other Android Security Devices like KNOX and BlackPhone.

    But the OP's article is about Android being successful enough to pay for BB10 development also.... To me that would probably mean that sales for the PRIV (and all hardware combined), need to be well over Chen's 5 Million mark for the year. Three weeks from tomorrow you'll know how likely that will be.
    JeepBB likes this.
    03-10-16 08:25 AM
  11. uncle_numpty's Avatar
    Three weeks from tomorrow you'll know how likely that will be.
    My guess at this stage is sales have been pretty mediocre, if they were flying off the shelves then BBRY would be shouting it from the rooftops rather than wait till the end or a sales period.

    It will be extremely interesting to see the figures and if Android has met/exceeded excpectations or even outsold other BB10 handset launches.

    I'll be expecting a lot of statistical fudgery to justify the switch to android.
    JeepBB likes this.
    03-10-16 09:21 AM
  12. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    My guess at this stage is sales have been pretty mediocre, if they were flying off the shelves then BBRY would be shouting it from the rooftops rather than wait till the end or a sales period.

    It will be extremely interesting to see the figures and if Android has met/exceeded excpectations or even outsold other BB10 handset launches.

    I'll be expecting a lot of statistical fudgery to justify the switch to android.
    I doubt there is a lot of "fudgery" they'll be able to do with hardware sales. But they will mention that last quarter's sales didn't include Verizon or Sprint in NA, along with a few other markets. So the "launch" really isn't over yet.
    JeepBB likes this.
    03-10-16 09:37 AM
  13. Al moon's Avatar
    maybe bb10 wouldn't be in this position if they would have made some affordable phones. its like they alienated themselves to only the small market they wanted to attract and it wasn't enough.
    03-10-16 10:34 AM
  14. app_Developer's Avatar
    maybe bb10 wouldn't be in this position if they would have made some affordable phones. its like they alienated themselves to only the small market they wanted to attract and it wasn't enough.
    Weren't the Leap and Q5 meant to be affordable? Or do you mean even more affordable than those?
    03-10-16 10:39 AM
  15. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    maybe bb10 wouldn't be in this position if they would have made some affordable phones. its like they alienated themselves to only the small market they wanted to attract and it wasn't enough.
    Or maybe not.
    The Q5, Z3 and Leap were not terribly expensive.
    BlackBerry does not have the economy of scale to make the real low end phones.
    Then you have to sell and more importantly support more phones to make profit.
    Fairly bad idea IMO.
    03-10-16 10:42 AM
  16. Al moon's Avatar
    Weren't the Leap and Q5 meant to be affordable? Or do you mean even more affordable than those?
    from what i can remember price wasnt something that got my attention on it, would you happen to know what they retailed for on release day
    03-10-16 10:44 AM
  17. app_Developer's Avatar
    from what i can remember price wasnt something that got my attention on it, would you happen to know what they retailed for on release day
    I believe they were around US $300 at launch?
    03-10-16 11:39 AM
  18. Invictus0's Avatar
    Or maybe not.
    The Q5, Z3 and Leap were not terribly expensive.
    BlackBerry does not have the economy of scale to make the real low end phones.
    Then you have to sell and more importantly support more phones to make profit.
    Fairly bad idea IMO.
    I believe the devices you've mentioned were upwards of $200 USD at launch, for comparison OS 7 devices (like the 9720) were less than that. There were reasons for that of course and BB10 was never really focused on this segment of the market which is just another item on the list of reasons why OS 7 users may not have upgraded to BB10.

    Still, I think the Z3 could have made for a good Moto G competitor had it rolled out faster and in more markets.
    03-10-16 11:41 AM
  19. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    Still, I think the Z3 could have made for a good Moto G competitor had it rolled out faster and in more markets.
    What would lead you to believe that?
    03-10-16 11:44 AM
  20. co4nd's Avatar
    I think I just saw Elvis with a Q10.
    ravencore likes this.
    03-10-16 11:51 AM
  21. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    There is another option. They could remove runtime completely from BB10 and in doing so have a truly security and privacy oriented product with zero infiltration by either Apple or Google. Of course people will scoff at this and state the obvious...that it would have very few apps...but that would be the whole point wouldn't it? You could buy a cheap $200 Android device to solve that problem.

    Posted via CB10
    TBH, that's the single option I have in mind right now.
    They cannot seriously handle a N-2 (at best) ART version for the years to come without legitimately raise some security concerns.
    More, legit or not, this would reinforce the security perception as in "all ours, 100%, zero compromise".

    I still believe for most companies, app needs are pretty basic like phone, mail, text, pdf and some MS office reading (soft editing ?) capabilities.
    On the other side, strong support for anything security/network related would be in the core business of BlackBerry and they could excel (don't they, already ?) in that area. And yes, BBM could (have) be(en) a major key element here; let's keep dreaming and pretend it's bundled with AtHoc and WatchDox ... oh, my.

    You're rightfully implying this : "one device for work, another for [whatever]".
    The work device has to be a real horsepower and bulletproof ... As a high end C-level device. Only at this price ($800+ range) could they support that for a while and limit the losses ... until ... ???

    But if you ask me, I buy this beast any time. But I'm more a business oriented user than M. Joe ...

    Edit:
    It would be dumb not to put BB10 on Priv since the hardware is already done
    I won't buy this one; given we don't care anymore about screen ratio (no more ART), a SE under steroids would fit more with my expectations. On a marketing side of things, this would blur the message, too.
    Last edited by Superfly_FR; 03-10-16 at 01:02 PM.
    03-10-16 12:42 PM
  22. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    I think I just saw Elvis with a Q10.
    Well, I saw The Edge with a BlackBerry
    Attachment 393794

    From "It might get loud", a fantastic movie with Jimmy Page, The Edge & Jack White for guitars lovers, btw.
    I hope you can watch it overseas : Branchez les guitares ! | ARTE
    It's dubbed in French but you should be able to ear the underlying English
    03-10-16 01:01 PM
  23. johnny_bravo72's Avatar
    I think I just saw Elvis with a Q10.
    Presley or Costello?

    *A3-A20
    raremage likes this.
    03-10-16 01:31 PM
  24. raremage's Avatar
    If you're Samsung (not sure what *other huge companies* you could mean) - why would you be interested in BB10? How much would you be interested in paying for an operating system with exceptionally low adoption, a limited app ecosystem, and near zero install base?

    The OS is excellent, but its not realistic to think BB continues to spend money on what has turned into Thorsten's boondoggle.
    03-10-16 01:45 PM
  25. Invictus0's Avatar
    What would lead you to believe that?
    Cost and specs at a time when midtier devices were becoming more popular. Comparable phones like the Moto G and Lumia 630/635 sold quite well in western markets. The value proposition of these devices made them top sellers in emerging markets as well,

    New data confirms Lumia 635's ascent to Windows Phone dominance | Windows Central

    Windows Phone Performance Retrospective November 2014: Windows Phone 8.1 Gains Rapid Pace, Lumia 630, Lumia 635 Earn Popularity

    Moto G sees largest sales in the history of Motorola

    Moto G resurrects Motorola in UK market - CNET

    Motorola Has a Hit?in Brazil - WSJ

    The Z3 was benefiting from this trend to some extent but I don't know if sales or marketshare estimates were ever released (outside of the India numbers below),

    From Indonesia to India ? Z3 Stays On a Roll | Inside BlackBerry

    BlackBerry Z3's initial stock sold out two weeks since launch - timesofindia-economictimes
    03-10-16 02:37 PM
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