02-02-15 07:41 AM
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  1. MobileMadness002's Avatar
    Same as BBOS, I'm not sure what your point is.
    ...
    You're only thinking device to carrier connection, you don't know what happens from carrier to NOC, you can't just connect to the NOCS using a normal internet connection.
    My point is that the APN into the NOC is no longer required by the wireless as it is now a public APN accessible from any internet connection. In fact you do access the NOC without going through the wireless carrier now when on a BB10 OS. You can remove your SIM and STILL be able to use BBM and Email. Therefore the ability to access the NOC using a standard internet connection is very possible.
    12-29-14 10:36 AM
  2. Richard Buckley's Avatar
    My point is that the APN into the NOC is no longer required by the wireless as it is now a public APN accessible from any internet connection. In fact you do access the NOC without going through the wireless carrier now when on a BB10 OS. You can remove your SIM and STILL be able to use BBM and Email. Therefore the ability to access the NOC using a standard internet connection is very possible.
    I can confirm this. I use my DA-C at home without any sim card. I use BBM, Protect, Blend and other services.

    Z10STL100-3/10.3.1.1154
    12-29-14 12:04 PM
  3. spyeagle's Avatar
    Tried both.
    1/ APN on android and Z10 are the same.
    On Android, everything is just fine. On Z10 : Browser, push mail and BlackBerry World work. BBM Whatsapp Protect Viber etc... are bloqued due to "phone failed to connect to BlackBerry Server"

    2/they claim that my BB10 device is set up as a regular android phone for browsing only. BlackBerry Services as BBM must be paid as a special service for 300 Dhs VAT (37.5 USD).

    NB : I am still waiting for the Product Manager to call me back. I think it will take long...

    Posted via CB10 on Q10
    This does not make sense at all and really indicates some sort of blocking on the carriers side. BB10 Whatsapp, Protect Viber, etc (Non-BB products) DO NOT come across the BB network. They are inet only and don't require the BB infrastructure at all.
    12-29-14 12:17 PM
  4. walcolm's Avatar
    It does need BB plan still, if not he will indeed don't have access to BBM and such (no BB services)

    Posted via CB10
    the statement above is incorrect...you dont need BB plan to get BB10 devices to work
    12-29-14 12:24 PM
  5. Thesmartmale's Avatar
    Can't send him a private message

    Posted via CB10 on Q10
    Just mention him on twitter or write him an email

    Posted via CB10
    12-29-14 12:29 PM
  6. spyeagle's Avatar
    You really want to test it download BBM on to your iPhone or Android and see if your carrier blocks it.

    The app runs through the same BlackBerry service. If it works tell your carrier to **** off.
    Actually this is not true at all, different network and servers totally. But still no reason for carriers to be charging anything extra to BB10 users. Unless they are making use of the dedicated (leased line) they initially had installed for old BIS services. If this is the case I could understand carriers charging extra. Could also be done to save bw costs on their backbone by offloading BB10 BBM traffic to that dedicated line. What this would also mean then is even if your carrier lost internet connection for all cellular clients, BB10 users would still have BBM running even if internet did not work. (This may then be considered a value added service) It would also mean in this scenario that cross platform users would lose their BBM connection.
    12-29-14 12:51 PM
  7. chalx's Avatar
    On legacy devices BB services was routed to BIS via service books after device registration. Maybe OP should use autoloader to load "clean" OS like rest of us. I don't believe that his carrier is blocking BB services on APN but more likely is software related.
    12-29-14 01:08 PM
  8. Alain_A's Avatar
    Yass (Yassine?) I would do as ymb has suggested get a SIM for iPhone or Android and put it in your BlackBerry 10 device.

    If they say anything about BBM tell them you are using it on your iPhone. Don't tell them you are using BB 10 phone.
    won't work cause carrier knows what phone you are using

    I'm not sure I'd consider it carrier gouging. I moved my $30/6GB BIS data plan from my Torch 9800 to my Z10. People are paying $30 for 500MB now. I have no $5 BlackBerry service fee on my bill.

    BB10 never used BIS, so I am unsure how the carrier can enable/disable certain functions like this.

    If it really is the case, then I want my BIS email service back :mad:

    that's right. Ask for it as you are entitle to that. IMO

    edit: I misread. If you are not paying $5.00 then you have no BIS
    Last edited by Alain_A; 12-29-14 at 03:55 PM.
    12-29-14 03:22 PM
  9. Richard Buckley's Avatar
    I really wish people would take the time to learn how things work before making comments about it. Phones access the Internet through an Access Point Name (APN), which often looks like a DNS entry but isn't, and provides the same functionality as a router, but isn't. An APN is a service gateway. You can put whatever you want in the APN field, unless it is locked by your SIM card. But unless your carrier has an APN with that name, and your account is enabled on that APN you won't get any services. A cell phone carrier is not an ISP, and they don't work like ISPs.

    So a carrier could SIM lock BlackBerrys to use APN BlackBerry.net, as Bell Canada did, but only activate your account for that APN if you have purchased a BlackBerry service plan. Even if they don't SIM lock the APN they could control who accesses each APN by IMSI and account type. So if you have a BlackBerry they know from the IMSI and block you from their standard APN, if they want to. You may not remember, but BBOS devices worked well enough on standard data plans for some people to dump their BlackBerry service plans and run their Curves and Bolds on iPhone or Android plans. AT & T started converting any plans they found a BlackBerry using to a BlackBerry plan without consulting the customer. Don't underestimate what a carrier can do with cell phone data.

    Yes they are forcing BlackBerry 10 users to buy service they don't need, and can't use. Which never happens in business, or does it?

    Z10STL100-3/10.3.1.1154
    Alain_A, Sally Mack and spyeagle like this.
    12-29-14 04:15 PM
  10. Alain_A's Avatar
    I really wish people would take the time to learn how things work before making comments about it. Phones access the Internet through an Access Point Name (APN), which often looks like a DNS entry but isn't, and provides the same functionality as a router, but isn't. An APN is a service gateway. You can put whatever you want in the APN field, unless it is locked by your SIM card. But unless your carrier has an APN with that name, and your account is enabled on that APN you won't get any services. A cell phone carrier is not an ISP, and they don't work like ISPs.

    So a carrier could SIM lock BlackBerrys to use APN BlackBerry.net, as Bell Canada did, but only activate your account for that APN if you have purchased a BlackBerry service plan. Even if they don't SIM lock the APN they could control who accesses each APN by IMSI and account type. So if you have a BlackBerry they know from the IMSI and block you from their standard APN, if they want to. You may not remember, but BBOS devices worked well enough on standard data plans for some people to dump their BlackBerry service plans and run their Curves and Bolds on iPhone or Android plans. AT & T started converting any plans they found a BlackBerry using to a BlackBerry plan without consulting the customer. Don't underestimate what a carrier can do with cell phone data.

    Yes they are forcing BlackBerry 10 users to buy service they don't need, and can't use. Which never happens in business, or does it?

    Z10STL100-3/10.3.1.1154
    that is why you are the pro here to teach us how it work....LOL
    12-29-14 05:00 PM
  11. yessuz's Avatar
    You're only thinking device to carrier connection, you don't know what happens from carrier to NOC, you can't just connect to the NOCS using a normal internet connection.
    so how does iphones/androids connect to bbm, huh?
    12-29-14 05:42 PM
  12. yessuz's Avatar
    For that matter Wifi on BBOS devices would not work either then.
    IF phone was not registered as BIS/BES user - even WIFI didn't allow you to use push mail or bbm on legacy devices. you could browse, but no blackberry services could work
    12-29-14 05:43 PM
  13. yessuz's Avatar
    Same as BBOS, I'm not sure what your point is.
    You phone, while using BIS, is REGISTERED to BB network. Basically - PIN is whitelisted.
    that's why you have all those "register Now", Service books etc.
    12-29-14 05:44 PM
  14. yessuz's Avatar
    A lot of arguing about this....

    But it seems to me that if a carrier wants to continue to make more money off of BlackBerry users they can do it if they want to... it's their network. And I'm sure they are smart enough to figure out how to block the communication between a BlackBerry and the NOC.

    It's why we really need to have options in the choice of Carriers....
    yeah, imho it's just simple port blocking

    try this:

    when you connect via Wifi and BBM/Watsapp works - try to block ports as listed here:
    BBM and Router Ports - #ichooseblackberry
    KB26816-Using Video Chat, BBM Voice, or BBM Video behind a firewall
    KB33102-Using BlackBerry Messenger Voice Chat behind a firewall

    for watsapp:
    networking - How to block the Whatsapp Android application in a network - Super User

    in this case - you should get EXACTLY same error messages as from your carrier.
    Paying for those services probably removes port blocks...

    ****ty operators.
    12-29-14 05:50 PM
  15. Yass85's Avatar
    Just mention him on twitter or write him an email

    Posted via CB10
    Did it the night before. No answer yet.

    Posted via CB10 on Q10
    12-29-14 08:41 PM
  16. Yass85's Avatar
    Gentlemen

    I am back to you with some news.

    My contact at Maroc Telecom told me that the techs of the carrier confirmed that using bb10 with android apn let you have browsing only. For BlackBerry services they configured their infrastructure to get into BlackBerry.net APN to control it as bbos and there you have to pay.

    They do not know what if this configuration is marketed as explained or they neglected BlackBerry as plateforme for their customers

    Posted via CB10 on Q10
    jpvj likes this.
    12-30-14 09:22 AM
  17. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Soooo, I was right.

    What a confusing mess, if I'd have to pay I would want full BIS
    MobileMadness002 likes this.
    12-30-14 09:41 AM
  18. yessuz's Avatar
    Soooo, I was right.

    What a confusing mess, if I'd have to pay I would want full BIS
    About what? It's the only thing that carrier forces to go through BIS infrastructure, which is not required by bb10

    Posted via fantastic BlackBerry Passport. Damn, this thing is so awesome, that I am short of words to describe it's awesomenes. Like Majestic As...
    12-30-14 09:44 AM
  19. MobileMadness002's Avatar
    Soooo, I was right.

    What a confusing mess, if I'd have to pay I would want full BIS
    I agree BFD, if you have to pay for it make sure you get the total benefit of it.
    12-30-14 09:46 AM
  20. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    About what? It's the only thing that carrier forces to go through BIS infrastructure, which is not required by bb10

    Posted via fantastic BlackBerry Passport. Damn, this thing is so awesome, that I am short of words to describe it's awesomenes. Like Majestic As...
    I was right that BB10 still uses the BIS infrastructure in a limited way of course and for more then just BBM, it's well known the email setup also uses the NOC to pull specific email settings


    Edit, simultaneous APN connections are possible, it doesn't mean that if the phone is configured for carrier APN one or more individual apps can't use a different APN.

    This was possible in BB7.
    12-30-14 09:47 AM
  21. yessuz's Avatar
    I was right that BB10 still uses the BIS infrastructure in a limited way of course and for more then just BBM, it's well known the email setup also uses the NOC to pull specific email settings


    Edit, simultaneous APN connections are possible, it doesn't mean that if the phone is configured for carrier APN one or more individual apps can't use a different APN.

    This was possible in BB7.
    Ffs. No, bb10 is not using BIS unless it is forced to!

    Posted via fantastic BlackBerry Passport. Damn, this thing is so awesome, that I am short of words to describe it's awesomenes. Like Majestic As...
    12-30-14 10:00 AM
  22. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Ffs. No, bb10 is not using BIS unless it is forced to!

    Posted via fantastic BlackBerry Passport. Damn, this thing is so awesome, that I am short of words to describe it's awesomenes. Like Majestic As...
    BB10 is the same on all carriers, a few in middle east force people to pay for it.

    End of story.
    MobileMadness002 likes this.
    12-30-14 10:07 AM
  23. Richard Buckley's Avatar
    BB10 is the same on all carriers, a few in middle east force people to pay for it.

    End of story.
    And Morocco, which is in Maghreb, North Africa. If you are going to bring geography into the argument you should at least make the effort to look like you're paying attention to the OP.

    Z10STL100-3/10.3.1.1154
    commandos135 likes this.
    12-30-14 10:33 AM
  24. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    And Morocco, which is in Maghreb, North Africa. If you are going to bring geography into the argument you should at least make the effort to look like you're paying attention to the OP.

    Z10STL100-3/10.3.1.1154
    That's the part you find important? I guess we have geography and grammar police now
    12-30-14 10:40 AM
  25. Yass85's Avatar
    That's the part you find important? I guess we have geography and grammar police now
    Hahaha
    Well said.
    Keep cool guys

    Posted via CB10 on Q10
    12-30-14 11:01 AM
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