10-23-13 11:42 AM
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  1. Wayne_Enterprises's Avatar
    It is hard to wrap our heads around the fact that you used to work in IT (might be a reason why you used to work in IT and no longer do) and that you don't have the simplest understanding that what you this is a secure solution is far from it. You think that BB10 devices are insecure because you say they sync contact across accounts ( that fact is in doubt by posters who know more than you ), and that the contact information is secure, when the person can copy the data in your fictitious work account across to the personal account on any device which you say is more secure than BB10. I just hope that no one uses your posts to make a serious IT security decision. They will be seriously disappointed.
    It's almost as if English is not your first language and you're having trouble reading my posts.

    1) You think because I say I worked in IT previously, I must have gotten fired. Reality: I wanted more money and switched careers.
    2) I said BB10 devices are insecure. Reality: I said it isn't smart to create a contact on a device, and it populates to every account on the device.
    3) "Fictitious Work Account" - Really?
    4) When did I say my posts influenced IT security decisions? Reality: I showed a guy in our MIS Department this "feature" and how it wasn't smart in my opinion. They had a meeting about it, and decided to shut BB10 down. End of story.
    10-20-13 08:34 PM
  2. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    It seems you are more pissed off that I brought up a "feature", which I'm still calling a bug since it was reversed in 10.2.1.xxx or whatever.
    It isn't a security bug. This is an added customization feature for personal accounts. You will be absolutely no more secure for your business contacts with this update.
    10-20-13 08:42 PM
  3. Wayne_Enterprises's Avatar
    Just because they work they want to doesn't make that a secure environment. So if your company wants to work in an insecure way, don't start going after BB10 about their lack of security, when it is more secure than what you probably are using instead. So the fact that you are now defending that employers should be able to work in an insecure method, shows how confused you are. And I can tell by your swearing, that you are as unprofessional as your companies policies.
    I never said we had a secure environment. Ever. Quote me. Show me. I'm also not on a witch hunt against BB10's lack of security. I saw a gaping issue for the device when not on a BES sever and I did something about it. Clearly BB saw it to be a problem, hence now having the ability to select where contacts go in a future update. Clearly they saw maybe we should go back to how BBOS worked...allowing users to select default contact lists just like we do with calendars.

    This started off as a simple, "hey guess what my company isn't allowing BB10 devices anymore because I showed them this" and had some decent discussion for a while, and then you came and decided to forum rape me and how I work, and my employer, and my skills, and my IT knowledge, and my this, and my that. I wonder at what point you get off on yourself and pass out. I'll send you some tissues or a sock if you want.

    People swear. It's a reality. Get over it. It may make me unprofessional in your eyes. I really don't care. I'm glad you're on the character attacks now.
    10-20-13 08:42 PM
  4. Wayne_Enterprises's Avatar
    It isn't a security bug. This is an added customization feature for personal accounts. You will be absolutely no more secure for your business contacts with this update.
    Who cares. Maybe IT will then look at the update and see that it passes their checks now and we can have BB10 back. It doesn't matter if it's a work account or a personal account. When you create a contact on a device, it should NOT synchronize to every account on the device. People have different accounts for different needs!!! What is so hard to understand about this.
    10-20-13 08:45 PM
  5. johnnyuk's Avatar
    I used to work in IT and am still very knowledgeable in the area.
    And yet you don't know the difference between a bug and a feature that works as intended but just doesn't work the way that you want it to?

    I made it pretty clear that I saw an issue with the way BB10 handles contact syncing when not on BES. When I brought this up to a friend in MIS, he brought it up with the CIO, they didn't like it either, and shut down BB10 devices joining our servers.
    Where your IT guys look stupid here is that they allowed BB10 devices to connect to ActiveSync without carrying out a full risk analysis of the device and what it does with their corporate data when connected to ActiveSync but not activated on BES10. Only BlackBerry can manage and secure BlackBerry phones, your IT people will know this from using BES5 and BBOS phones. They really dropped the ball there, spectacular goof up.

    They went on to make a poor decision in their reaction of blanket banning BB10 devices from connecting to ActiveSync instead of saying "how can we secure these devices that our employees want to use?". If they'd bothered they'd see they can do it very cheaply, BES5 CALs can be migrated to BES10 CALs for BB10 devices for free and the BES10 software itself is free too. But instead now their BYOD policy is "yes you can bring your own device...oh sorry just not that device".

    The end result is you can't enjoy using your BB10 device for getting work done anymore. How did that improve things?

    It seems you are more pissed off that I brought up a "feature", which I'm still calling a bug since it was reversed in 10.2.1.xxx or whatever
    It's not reversed, the feature has had options added so you can customise how it behaves. Still don't know what a bug is do you?

    which then shut down our company's ability to use BB 10 devices (since they don't see the benefit of upgrading to BES 10 with the finite number of users still on the platform).
    When by their rules they shouldn't have allowed BB10 devices to connect in the first place if they had done their homework correctly. Do they allow iOS users to synchronise with iCloud? If they do, uh oh! Better go tell the CIO there could be sensitive work data in "the cloud" that they have no control over....where will it end?!

    What I am saying, and will continue to say, is our MIS group did not like this "feature", and did something about it. How hard is that to wrap your heads around?
    What we're saying is if your company secured BB10 phones correctly then you'd still be enjoying using yours for work today. Not hard to understand either.

    So when a future OS update lands on your phone that "fixes" your "bug", will you be going and asking for it to be reconnected?



    Posted via CB10
    jajor likes this.
    10-20-13 08:57 PM
  6. Wayne_Enterprises's Avatar
    And yet you don't know the difference between a bug and a feature that works as intended but just doesn't work the way that you want it to?



    Where your IT guys look stupid here is that they allowed BB10 devices to connect to ActiveSync without carrying out a full risk analysis of the device and what it does with their corporate data when connected to ActiveSync but not activated on BES10. Only BlackBerry can manage and secure BlackBerry phones, your IT people will know this from using BES5 and BBOS phones. They really dropped the ball there, spectacular goof up.

    They went on to make a poor decision in their reaction of blanket banning BB10 devices from connecting to ActiveSync instead of saying "how can we secure these devices that our employees want to use?". If they'd bothered they'd see they can do it very cheaply, BES5 CALs can be migrated to BES10 CALs for BB10 devices for free and the BES10 software itself is free too. But instead now their BYOD policy is "yes you can bring your own device...oh sorry just not that device".

    The end result is you can't enjoy using your BB10 device for getting work done anymore. How did that improve things?



    It's not reversed, the feature has had options added so you can customise how it behaves. Still don't know what a bug is do you?



    When by their rules they shouldn't have allowed BB10 devices to connect in the first place if they had done their homework correctly. Do they allow iOS users to synchronise with iCloud? If they do, uh oh! Better go tell the CIO there could be sensitive work data in "the cloud" that they have no control over....where will it end?!



    What we're saying is if your company secured BB10 phones correctly then you'd still be enjoying using yours for work today. Not hard to understand either.

    So when a future OS update lands on your phone that "fixes" your "bug", will you be going and asking for it to be reconnected?



    Posted via CB10
    You have bored me to tears. It was entertaining before seeing how upset you were getting after my posts, but now I'd rather go watch Boardwalk Empire. My company does what they want, what else can I say. They did do me a favor and allow my MAC address on the network to further test, so there's that at least.

    Posted via CB10 on 10.1.0.4780
    10-20-13 09:25 PM
  7. johnnyuk's Avatar
    You have bored me to tears. It was entertaining before seeing how upset you were getting after my posts, but now I'd rather go watch Boardwalk Empire. My company does what they want, what else can I say. They did do me a favor and allow my MAC address on the network to further test, so there's that at least.

    Posted via CB10 on 10.1.0.4780
    I'm not upset. I'm just trying to make you see it's your company not securing your BB10 phone correctly that has got you to this point, not BlackBerry. Enjoy your BB10 phone!

    Posted via CB10
    10-20-13 09:37 PM
  8. Wayne_Enterprises's Avatar
    I'm not upset. I'm just trying to make you see it's your company not securing your BB10 phone correctly that has got you to this point, not BlackBerry. Enjoy your BB10 phone!

    Posted via CB10
    And their argument was "we don't have to worry about contacts created on iOS, Droid, Win8, and BBOS devices syncing to all other accounts on their devices by default.".

    Posted via CB10 on 10.1.0.4780
    10-20-13 09:40 PM
  9. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    It's almost as if English is not your first language and you're having trouble reading my posts.

    1) You think because I say I worked in IT previously, I must have gotten fired. Reality: I wanted more money and switched careers.
    2) I said BB10 devices are insecure. Reality: I said it isn't smart to create a contact on a device, and it populates to every account on the device.
    3) "Fictitious Work Account" - Really?
    4) When did I say my posts influenced IT security decisions? Reality: I showed a guy in our MIS Department this "feature" and how it wasn't smart in my opinion. They had a meeting about it, and decided to shut BB10 down. End of story.
    BB10 devices are more secure than Android and iOS. You point number 2 is a red herring. It doesn't matter than it populates on every account, Many posters have said it doesn't do what you say anyway, as the data isn't secure. This makes point 3 mute as what you think is a work account is just a personal account that is open to copying data to another one. This is what you say is the whole problem with BB10, but in fact all personal accounts are just that and are all insecure.
    10-20-13 09:45 PM
  10. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    I never said we had a secure environment. Ever. Quote me. Show me.
    Funny, you say this and you and your MIS get BB10 banned because you think it is not secure. You guys are all over the place.
    BravoZuluDelta likes this.
    10-20-13 09:47 PM
  11. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    Who cares. Maybe IT will then look at the update and see that it passes their checks now and we can have BB10 back. It doesn't matter if it's a work account or a personal account. When you create a contact on a device, it should NOT synchronize to every account on the device. People have different accounts for different needs!!! What is so hard to understand about this.
    What is hard to understand is that you brought this up as what you think is a BB10 security issue when it fact is is a lack of security policies in your company. And when people bring it up, you dismiss it.
    BravoZuluDelta likes this.
    10-20-13 09:49 PM
  12. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    And their argument was "we don't have to worry about contacts created on iOS, Droid, Win8, and BBOS devices syncing to all other accounts on their devices by default.".

    Posted via CB10 on 10.1.0.4780
    What a joke. They certainly do have to work about them. Just because they aren't created across all account (if they really are), you are missing the point that without an MDM solution, they can be synced or copied at any time after creation. You IT department really needs to get their act together.
    10-20-13 09:53 PM
  13. Jerry A's Avatar
    Hilarious. If that were true this thread wouldn't have several pages of people trying to explain it to you.

    Posted via CB10



    I thought this was several pages of people making excuses for BlackBerry.

    People, processes, technology. That's the mantra of any CISSP. Along with a deficiency in one does not negate a deficiency in another.

    The current BB10 implementation leaks. That's a fact. Using BES10 is a remediation to said leakage. However it's still a remediation.

    Continuing to dogpile the MDM mantra doesn't make this go away. By all appearances 10.2.1 will resolve the issue. Then and only then does the leakage get resolved.
    10-20-13 10:01 PM
  14. Valdar729's Avatar
    So what stops said employees from writing this info down with pen and paper and doing the same thing?
    Wow, just wow....

    So because they can do it with a pen and paper, it should be no big deal with bb10 does it when it shouldn't? And when no other os including legacy bb, does it?

    That's a pretty big security hole. I'm glad it was explained in this thread.

    Posted via CB10
    10-20-13 10:09 PM
  15. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    I thought this was several pages of people making excuses for BlackBerry.

    People, processes, technology. That's the mantra of any CISSP. Along with a deficiency in one does not negate a deficiency in another.

    The current BB10 implementation leaks. That's a fact. Using BES10 is a remediation to said leakage. However it's still a remediation.

    Continuing to dogpile the MDM mantra doesn't make this go away. By all appearances 10.2.1 will resolve the issue. Then and only then does the leakage get resolved.
    10.2.1 will not resolve anything, because there wasn't anything to resolve in the first place. The leakage is in the fact that no MDM solution is in place.
    10-20-13 10:22 PM
  16. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    Wow, just wow....

    So because they can do it with a pen and paper, it should be no big deal with bb10 does it when it shouldn't? And when no other os including legacy bb, does it?

    That's a pretty big security hole. I'm glad it was explained in this thread.

    Posted via CB10
    It wasn't explained as it isn't a security hole.
    10-20-13 10:23 PM
  17. Wayne_Enterprises's Avatar
    10.2.1 will not resolve anything, because there wasn't anything to resolve in the first place. The leakage is in the fact that no MDM solution is in place.
    TAKE WORK AND MDM OUT OF THE FLIPPING EQUATION!!! In the current official build in the US, if you have multiple accounts (to please you, we'll say PERSONAL), with Contact Sync enabled, when you create a new contact, it no longer let's you (as in BBOS) decide what account you want that vcf associated with, but pushes it to all accounts. It has NOTHING to do with MDM!!!!!!

    Were your mother's initials MDM or something? Is that why you enjoy saying it so much????

    Posted via CB10 on 10.1.0.4780
    10-20-13 10:27 PM
  18. axeman1000's Avatar
    So you're saying that BlackBerry released a device that isn't secure unless you're using BES 10? That sounds kind of moronic if you ask me.
    About as moronic as apple and android I guess.

    Posted via CB10
    10-20-13 10:35 PM
  19. Jerry A's Avatar
    10.2.1 will not resolve anything, because there wasn't anything to resolve in the first place. The leakage is in the fact that no MDM solution is in place.



    Thank you for so eloquently proving my point.
    10-20-13 10:46 PM
  20. Jerry A's Avatar
    PS. My last post wasn't a compliment. Please go back and reread what I wrote.
    10-20-13 10:58 PM
  21. guygardner73's Avatar
    I'm going to wear trainers with my suit to the office. If it looks stupid and inappropriate, it's an epic fail on the part of Nike.

    Z10STL100-2/10.1.0.4780 O2 UK
    johnnyuk likes this.
    10-20-13 11:46 PM
  22. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    Thank you for so eloquently proving my point.
    Since I have said that leakage will occur on every phone because you are putting it into a insecure personal account. What W_E thinks is secure really isn't. I didn't prove your point.
    10-21-13 05:19 AM
  23. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    TAKE WORK AND MDM OUT OF THE FLIPPING EQUATION!!! In the current official build in the US, if you have multiple accounts (to please you, we'll say PERSONAL), with Contact Sync enabled, when you create a new contact, it no longer let's you (as in BBOS) decide what account you want that vcf associated with, but pushes it to all accounts. It has NOTHING to do with MDM!!!!!!

    Were your mother's initials MDM or something? Is that why you enjoy saying it so much????

    Posted via CB10 on 10.1.0.4780
    You have yet to prove that it does that. Multiple people have posted that it doesn't happen like you say. But you are chasing windmills, you say that this "bug" causes a security hole. But you fail to open your eyes to the fact that if you don't use a MDM solution, every one of your phones in your company is just as insecure. So your new feature will not lock down the information in the account and will be as vulnerable to "leakage" as it was before and just like all the iOS and Android phones that have this feature. They are all insecure and you don't understand that.
    10-21-13 05:23 AM
  24. Dabida's Avatar
    It happens.. i just tested it. Made a new contact and it automatically created several & linked then together (linking isn't the problem talked about but just so you know). In my case, it created 1 in Local Contacts, Gmail, and My Computer (BlackBerry Link).

    I'm understanding w_e's situation better now.. some company just don't secure things the way they should.. but it's not why w_e talked about all this.. the company have a level of security that they're comfortable with mow (probably) and using BB10 without BES10 (by choice and not debatable here because the decision maker isn't here) shakes that security. As simple as that..

    If we want to help BlackBerry, what we should do instead is say things nicely to w_e, giving suggestions on what he/she can do to allow BB10 devices to be used at that company again..

    Posted via CB10
    10-21-13 05:39 AM
  25. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    It happens.. i just tested it. Made a new contact and it automatically created several & linked then together (linking isn't the problem talked about but just so you know). In my case, it created 1 in Local Contacts, Gmail, and My Computer (BlackBerry Link).

    I'm understanding w_e's situation better now.. some company just don't secure things the way they should.. but it's not why w_e talked about all this.. the company have a level of security that they're comfortable with mow (probably) and using BB10 without BES10 (by choice and not debatable here because the decision maker isn't here) shakes that security. As simple as that..

    If we want to help BlackBerry, what we should do instead is say things nicely to w_e, giving suggestions on what he/she can do to allow BB10 devices to be used at that company again..

    Posted via CB10
    Thanks for testing. But to say that they have some level of security is false. They have no level of security.
    10-21-13 06:11 AM
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