1. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    I don't think you can say with authority what his company needs. Within their budget and current setup, I think the question BBRY needs to answer is how BB10 can give Wayne an advantage.
    BB10 can give them an advantage if they use BES10. And if they are as big as they are and not using VMs for servers, then they have bigger problems.
    sklotz2000 and gfondeur like this.
    10-18-13 10:59 AM
  2. Wayne_Enterprises's Avatar
    BB10 can give them an advantage if they use BES10. And if they are as big as they are and not using VMs for servers, then they have bigger problems.
    Again, assuming and making statements when you have no evidence to back up your claims.

    Stop making comments like "then they have bigger problems" when you know you're speculating.

    Jesus. Do you just like to hear yourself talk?

    Posted via CB10 on 10.1.0.4780
    10-18-13 11:02 AM
  3. KenFletch's Avatar
    so the problem is .....

    your CEOs assistant in the 70,000+ employee company is using her personal G-Mail account to manage work contacts and keeps credit card numbers and other personal info in a notes field ... and BB is at fault ... If your policy is to allow employees to keep work contacts in a personal GMail account you policy problems not IT problems. You have no right to delete info on the assistants personal account.

    BTW , could you let us know what the big company is so we all can avoid doing business with you????
    10-18-13 11:02 AM
  4. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    We do.

    You're missing the point again.

    Our MIS executives saw this security risk, did a poll of BB10 devices currently in use, ran numbers, and realized it wasn't worth it to try and make the device work like it used to. They're letting the BES Service Contract for BES 5 run out next year because of the disappearing users and problems like this with OS10.

    BlackBerry to them is a dead platform and more trouble than its worth at this stage in the game. But that's just our company. I'm sure others are still hanging in there and more power to them.

    Posted via CB10 on 10.1.0.4780
    No. I was responding to your fictitious point that you would have to buy new hardware. Now you say you have the hardware, but it is just too much trouble. Hard to pin you down. 100K employees in one post, 70K in another. Hardware an issue, not it isn't. You never did say which MDM solution you are using company wide.
    gfondeur and moyah8 like this.
    10-18-13 11:03 AM
  5. Wayne_Enterprises's Avatar
    so the problem is .....

    your CEOs assistant in the 70,000+ employee company is using her personal G-Mail account to manage work contacts and keeps credit card numbers and other personal info in a notes field ... and BB is at fault ... If your policy is to allow employees to keep work contacts in a personal GMail account you policy problems not IT problems. You have no right to delete info on the assistants personal account.

    BTW , could you let us know what the big company is so we all can avoid doing business with you????
    When did I EVER say that an assistant uses gmail to manage work contacts. Learn to read more carefully.

    Ignorance!!!

    Posted via CB10 on 10.1.0.4780
    10-18-13 11:04 AM
  6. Wayne_Enterprises's Avatar
    No. I was responding to your fictitious point that you would have to buy new hardware. Now you say you have the hardware, but it is just too much trouble. Hard to pin you down. 100K employees in one post, 70K in another. Hardware an issue, not it isn't. You never did say which MDM solution you are using company wide.
    You are more trouble than you're worth. If the issue isn't getting thru to you at this point, I'm done responding to you.

    Final statement. Contacts created on the bb10 device should only stay in the account in which they are created, not synced across all other accounts. That feature is gone from BB10, but remains in BBOS, iOS and Android. Regardless of whether or not the organization is on BES 10.

    I rest my case with you.

    Posted via CB10 on 10.1.0.4780
    10-18-13 11:08 AM
  7. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    Again, assuming and making statements when you have no evidence to back up your claims.

    Stop making comments like "then they have bigger problems" when you know you're speculating.

    Jesus. Do you just like to hear yourself talk?

    Posted via CB10 on 10.1.0.4780
    Do you even read what you post? You say hardware was the issue and then no it isn't. You think that having SSN# and credit card# in contact information isn't a bigger problem than BB10 phones sharing contacts on personal email accounts (one being a personal one connected to your work server). And all this is Blackberry's fault as you don't want to use the tools that they provide to actually solve your problems.
    gfondeur and moyah8 like this.
    10-18-13 11:09 AM
  8. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    You are more trouble than you're worth. If the issue isn't getting thru to you at this point, I'm done responding to you.

    Final statement. Contacts created on the bb10 device should only stay in the account in which they are created, not synced across all other accounts. That feature is gone from BB10, but remains in BBOS, iOS and Android. Regardless of whether or not the organization is on BES 10.

    I rest my case with you.

    Posted via CB10 on 10.1.0.4780
    Promise? The fact that you are using a personal space for work contacts is the problem. You keep saying that BBOS, iOS and Android don't sync across personal email accounts is a problem, not a feature. BB10 makes it easy for you to manage your personal contacts by syncing the information so you don't have to put it in multiple times. If you want to secure Work contacts with information that shouldn't be there in the first place, put in a proper MDM solution. BES 10 is one that allows BB10 phones to have Balance and then you can secure the information. The information will even be encrypted. Just because iOS and Android don't share contact across accounts, doesn't mean that data is secure. It still resides in an unencrypted storage that can be backed up and used for what you are trying to prevent. You have a false sense of security in what you think is the solution to your problems.
    10-18-13 11:16 AM
  9. KenFletch's Avatar
    just a minute .... are you thinking that because the BB10 contact book links contacts together into one entry that they sync all info???

    because they don't ... that is just a virtual appearance of a single contact.

    I checked my accounts and the contacts from one accounts are not synced into the others ... that would be very bad. My Hotamil account does not now have my gmail account info. Doesn't , my 3 different rogers accounts all have different contact lists and nothing from gmail or hotmail, etc

    Are you sure this is a real problem , does one e-mail contact list get copied into other accounts for anyone else????
    10-18-13 11:16 AM
  10. Wayne_Enterprises's Avatar
    Promise? The fact that you are using a personal space for work contacts is the problem. You keep saying that BBOS, iOS and Android don't sync across personal email accounts is a problem, not a feature. BB10 makes it easy for you to manage your personal contacts by syncing the information so you don't have to put it in multiple times. If you want to secure Work contacts with information that shouldn't be there in the first place, put in a proper MDM solution. BES 10 is one that allows BB10 phones to have Balance and then you can secure the information. The information will even be encrypted. Just because iOS and Android don't share contact across accounts, doesn't mean that data is secure. It still resides in an unencrypted storage that can be backed up and used for what you are trying to prevent. You have a false sense of security in what you think is the solution to your problems.
    Pass. I'll still with BBOS and iOS. They worked just fine without forcing companies to upgrade. Goodbye.

    Posted via CB10 on 10.1.0.4780
    10-18-13 11:18 AM
  11. Jerry A's Avatar
    Do you even read what you post? You say hardware was the issue and then no it isn't. You think that having SSN# and credit card# in contact information isn't a bigger problem than BB10 phones sharing contacts on personal email accounts (one being a personal one connected to your work server). And all this is Blackberry's fault as you don't want to use the tools that they provide to actually solve your problems.



    I think he's saying that BB10 devices can't provide baseline security features like preventing inadvertent information leakage without purchasing additional services.

    Something that isn't necessary with the competition.

    But looking at it another way, if they got this wrong, what other architectural deficiencies could exist?
    10-18-13 11:19 AM
  12. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    Pass. I'll still with BBOS and iOS. They worked just fine without forcing companies to upgrade. Goodbye.

    Posted via CB10 on 10.1.0.4780
    You do know that the server is free and you can transfer your BES 5 licenses for free up to the end of the year. Pretty good deal. And you do have a false sense of security within your company.
    gfondeur and Nharzhool like this.
    10-18-13 11:22 AM
  13. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    I think he's saying that BB10 devices can't provide baseline security features like preventing inadvertent information leakage without purchasing additional services.

    Something that isn't necessary with the competition.

    But looking at it another way, if they got this wrong, what other architectural deficiencies could exist?
    The problem is that he is trying to pass off a personal account/contacts as a business account/contacts. The baseline for any phone is personal. If you want business, you need to add additional features no matter the platform. Blackberry didn't get this wrong.
    gfondeur and world saviour like this.
    10-18-13 11:24 AM
  14. Jerry A's Avatar
    The problem is that he is trying to pass off a personal account/contacts as a business account/contacts. The baseline for any phone is personal. If you want business, you need to add additional features no matter the platform. Blackberry didn't get this wrong.



    Except that's not true. On any other platform (WP8, iOS, Android) a user can create a contact and specify the context of where that account is created (personal, work, etc.).

    On BB10 create or modify a contact and those changes sync to ALL accounts. No choice, no option.


    In the security arena that's what we call baseline information leakage - and it's a problem.
    10-18-13 11:33 AM
  15. Suraj Jadhav's Avatar
    Having server free isn't the end of it. Large companies need to think of the project costs of getting this FREE stuff implemented with 0 downtime.
    Will BlackBerry pay for that as well?

    Posted via CB10
    10-18-13 11:37 AM
  16. Wayne_Enterprises's Avatar
    Except that's not true. On any other platform (WP8, iOS, Android) a user can create a contact and specify the context of where that account is created (personal, work, etc.).

    On BB10 create or modify a contact and those changes sync to ALL accounts. No choice, no option.


    In the security arena that's what we call baseline information leakage - and it's a problem.
    Thank you, that's exactly the point I'm trying to get across. Even if I had 3 personal accounts, and we take business out of the equation, I don't want certain contacts sync'ed to all accounts for obvious reasons I won't go into.

    Posted via CB10 on 10.1.0.4780
    Suraj Jadhav likes this.
    10-18-13 11:39 AM
  17. Bluline79's Avatar
    Okay, I work for the state and what you are detailing happens to iOS and Android as well. If you enter an account into either of those the contact info can sync to their personal email accounts as well. My coworkers have iPhone's and everything gets synced into the could if they set it up themselves. IT dept should be the ones to place the accounts on their devices, but most people do it themselves and don't really understand what they are doing. The most true security is really having BES10 and using the balance. That would eliminate the entire problem. But most companies don't want to spend that extra cash until it's to late.

    Posted via CB10
    10-18-13 11:43 AM
  18. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    Except that's not true. On any other platform (WP8, iOS, Android) a user can create a contact and specify the context of where that account is created (personal, work, etc.).

    On BB10 create or modify a contact and those changes sync to ALL accounts. No choice, no option.
    In the security arena that's what we call baseline information leakage - and it's a problem.
    And is that information encrypted? Because if it isn't, it false security. And can the use change the information and put the work in the personal context. If they can, then it defeats the whole purpose. Again, false security.
    gfondeur likes this.
    10-18-13 11:46 AM
  19. Wayne_Enterprises's Avatar
    Was that the question? I don't think so. Stop getting off topic.

    And is that information encrypted? Because if it isn't, it false security. And can the use change the information and put the work in the personal context. If they can, then it defeats the whole purpose. Again, false security.
    10-18-13 11:48 AM
  20. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    Having server free isn't the end of it. Large companies need to think of the project costs of getting this FREE stuff implemented with 0 downtime.
    Will BlackBerry pay for that as well?

    Posted via CB10
    What is the cost of not implementing proper security and IT policies?
    gfondeur and tempered like this.
    10-18-13 11:49 AM
  21. Wayne_Enterprises's Avatar
    Oh my god get off your soapbox. You sound like a conspiracy theorist.

    What is the cost of not implementing proper security and IT policies?
    10-18-13 11:51 AM
  22. ibpluto's Avatar
    We subscribe to BYOD, as many companies do these days. The parent company I work at for the most part is a media conglomerate. Lot's of personal information in contact cards, Credit Card info, SSN, Kid's SSNs, wife birthday, etc etc etc...

    With that being said, here's the bug.

    If a new contact is created ON THE BB10 device, it will sync the contact to Exchange, AND ALSO any accounts on the device with CONTACT SYNC ENABLED. If the newly created contact is deleted ON your desktop computer, it does not affect the contact that was synced to your other account (let's say g-mail for example.)

    Now let's put this real world:

    1) The CEO of our parent company gets a new assistant.
    2) The assistant brings her BB10 as part of BYOD.
    3) Her Work e-mail is setup on the BB10.
    4) A new contact is created on the BB10 device (let's say the CEO is always traveling and mobile computing is how they roll).
    5) Let's say the new contact was the CEO's new wife.
    6) Let's also say all of her personal information was inputted into the "notes" section.
    7) Unbeknownst to new assistant CEO, all of that information was synced to the assistant's personal account (G-mail).
    8) 5 weeks, and 30 new contact cards later, the assistant is fired, and her work email is remotely wiped from her BB10.
    9) Everything inputted as a new contact from her BB10 device during the time is now synced to her G-mail account if she for some reason is out for revenge, or wants to play "let's sell credit card #'s, or SSN #'s).

    Bottom line is, in every other OS, and BB OS, you had the ability to select a default contacts application. BB10 got rid of that.
    Is this if you are using MS exchange with Active sync? If so, you cannot wipe a device remotely anyway.
    gfondeur likes this.
    10-18-13 11:51 AM
  23. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    Was that the question? I don't think so. Stop getting off topic.
    You are so fixated as your dislike of BES10/BB10 that you can't see where the real problem lies. You think you have a solution but it is only a false sense of security. If the user can move a contact, then it is exactly the same as what you say is a BB10 "bug". Once they have moved that contact, then it will be synced to a personal account.
    gfondeur likes this.
    10-18-13 11:52 AM
  24. Jerry A's Avatar
    Okay, I work for the state and what you are detailing happens to iOS and Android as well. If you enter an account into either of those the contact info can sync to their personal email accounts as well. My coworkers have iPhone's and everything gets synced into the could if they set it up themselves. IT dept should be the ones to place the accounts on their devices, but most people do it themselves and don't really understand what they are doing. The most true security is really having BES10 and using the balance. That would eliminate the entire problem. But most companies don't want to spend that extra cash until it's to late.

    Posted via CB10
    And I have a bunch of users that use BYOD and corporate devices and don't have this issue.

    This is a training issue for us. Amazingly, folks pay careful attention since we don't present this as a corporate security concern but as protection of their personal information (eg you don't want us to know about your next doctor's visit or with whom you're having an affair).

    User training issues are not the same as baseline architectural issues. The end result may look the same, but the cause is vastly different.

    However, I do agree that having a MDM in place and a sandboxed environment is the most effective solution. Regardless of that fact, that's not what we're discussing and tossing that out as a solution only masks the true deficiency.
    10-18-13 11:53 AM
  25. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    Oh my god get off your soapbox. You sound like a conspiracy theorist.
    You swear a lot. Shows a lack of professionalism. But it only makes sense with the lack of understanding with this issue.
    gfondeur and moyah8 like this.
    10-18-13 11:53 AM
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