11-07-13 03:56 AM
44 12
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  1. lactose's Avatar
    Like some others, the WebOS is the gold standard for me. I'm hoping the Z10 changes my mind. I believe the future is heavily gestured phones, and was happy to see some of that in BB10. I think there are some folks putting WebOS on the Nexus, although that may be affected by the recent purchase of WebOS.
    03-21-13 04:28 PM
  2. kevets's Avatar
    Yeah there is a group webos Ports working on the galaxy nexus and nexus 7 ports, but I think they were running into trouble with the graphics accelleration. Something about one framebuffer in android vs two in webos or the other way around. And now after this LG thing everything is just kind of at a standstill which stinks. Maybe something will crop up in the future, but in the meantime I'm going to play the field and check out BB10.
    03-21-13 10:39 PM
  3. greatwiseone's Avatar
    I have used webos on the Touchpad and have used playbook and bb10 extensively. There are some things that webos is quite good at, such as the cards interface, the multitasking carousel that playbook borrowed, etc. The thing, though, is bb10 now has some features that really set it apart from webos, like the keyboard, peek, flow, invocation, etc. WebOS is also built on top of the Linux kernel rather than qnx. Aside from the card interface, I think bb10 has almost everything that webos can offer, including something similar to synergy, and bb10 supports a larger number of app development platforms.

    In any event, think most of us here in crackberry welcome our webos brethren here and to try out bb10!
    03-22-13 12:03 AM
  4. rishio's Avatar
    I was a Web OS user as well and have completely switched over to the z10. One thing I don't miss at all is the slow speed / sluggish UI of Web OS. BB10 is blazingly fast!

    Posted via CB10
    03-31-13 03:53 AM
  5. OldSkoolVWLover's Avatar
    At the OP, thanks for all the info, I am falling in love with the Q10, but obviously haven't touched one yet. My Pre3 will be daily for a lil while longer as I don't think I can give up physical KB. All your insight is awesome though, all things I need to consider going forward, and a good list of stuff for me to keep an eye on!

    Is there much going on in the homebrew area on BB10? Curious where I should be looking at once the phone gets here.
    I was wondering the same thing.
    05-03-13 06:15 PM
  6. shinerb's Avatar
    Would like to hear a follow up from the OP.
    05-03-13 06:36 PM
  7. jasonmelling's Avatar
    I love webOS; typing from a Pixi right now. I think I lucked out with a good one here; I've had it for three years.

    Yes, I agree! An update would be nice, especially an update from a Q10 user.

    Everything I've read and seen is leading me to BB10, though Android is putting up a fight with their phone prices.

    Do you think my Pixi could last forever???
    05-04-13 01:23 AM
  8. gastr's Avatar
    Thought I'd revisit this thread and post a follow-up. Glad that many people found my review useful. It's been almost 5 months now so let's see if my opinions have changed...

    • I've gotten used to the multitasking. I very rarely hit the 8-app limit. I'm no longer annoyed that it rearranges the order of the apps by most-recently-used. I often kill apps accidentally when I'm meaning to tap to open, or to swipe. Killing apps by pressing the little X is less satisfying and more finicky than the flick, but with a two-column grid there's nothing that can be done about it.
    • The swipe gesture is fine once you get used to it. No doubt people going from BB10->webOS would find it weird that way too.
    • Notifications are a gripe still. Glad I have the red light but that's all I have. Peek is useless because it shows where you left off in the hub, not what the latest message is, so I've fallen out of the habit of using it. Looking forward to 10.2 notifications by the sounds of it (Spotted in BlackBerry 10.2.0.483: Actionable Notifications, Wi-Fi Direct and more! | CrackBerry.com). I hear that notifications will be on the lock screen in 10.2 too, which is also still a gripe of mine too.
    • Popups are still annoying and they should be dispensed with. No excuses.
    • Lack of wireless charging- you get used to it. I appreciate the thinness of the device. It was just cool, that's all, in a gadget-nerd kinda way.
    • Google Docs integration - I have this now via playcloud app but I'd like it more integrated. Hopefully someday.
    • I still miss the physical keyboard. Z10 KB is as good as it gets, but it's not physical. Q10 looks great but I'd really like a slider so I could have a bigger screen.
    • The Hub - I love it now that I've got used to it and can't imagine any other way. I like it how some things get integrated into it that weren't well integrated to begin with, i.e. there is progress Would like Google Talk better integrated.
    • I'm missing "Just Type". 10.1 search feature is okay but I'm still getting used to it. Eg. let's say I want to email 'Bob'. On webOS I 'just type' 'bob', I get a list of actions and content that match 'bob'. I tap on 'Email Bob'. Done. On the Z10 I tap Search, type 'bob', I get a list of content related to Bob. I could tap on Bob's contact, scroll down to the email addresses and tap on one to compose. What I really should do it tap search, type 'email bob' and bam! At the end of the day it's just as fast but I have to change my habits and separate actions from content. It annoys me that the search app stays open, particular when it has pushed my 8th app off the list (rare but annoying).
    • The browser is great. Love the option to remember open tabs on exit. Browser crashes now and then. No biggie. More annoyingly it becomes unresponsive sometimes, I can't close tabs or change tabs. Have to kill the app, then it has forgotten which tabs were open. Annoying because I use the tabs as opened links from twitter than I want to read later.
    • Looking forward to multiple alarms in 10.2. Would also like customisable snooze times when the alarm goes off. If I decide I don't want to get up I have to go into the alarm app and change the alarm time to be later. Would be nice to just say "snooze one hour". WebOS never had this, just sayin'...
    • Still don't understand what "Unfiled entries" is in Remember. It holds a bunch of old emails I once starred but aren't important and have long since replied to. Weird... But the remember app is great and I use it all the time as my goto "todo" and shopping list app.
    • Battery life was fantastic until I started using Skype and Google Talk. Ouch!
    • The camera is excellent. I've never used the camera on any phone I've had before, because they've been crap. I take an 'actual' camera with me. But now I only use then for low-light shots. The Z10 takes fantastic pictures in natural light, with vibrant colours.
    • Timeshift is hours of fun. Used it on holiday in the Greek Islands recently with my girlfriend, trying to get shots of each of each other against the sun-set doing silly things like handstands or cartwheels. Sounds totally cheesy I know but just sayin' you can have loads of fun with it. Ask someone to make a quick succession of funny faces and snap it with timeshift, then show them and drag the time back and forward. Hours of hilarity!
    • Missing the customisation that came with Homebrew on webOS. Would be nice if there were patches to altar what's on the drag-down settings menu. I'd remove Bluetooth and add a brightness slider, or flight-mode toggle. Would be nice to be able to choose what goes in there.
    • I miss the physical silencer switch from the Pre devices. In reviews people refer to the middle button between the volume rocker on the BB10 phones as a "silent" button. It seems to do nothing, am I missing something?
    • Cascades/Flow = win.
    • Slippery back of the Z10 resulted in me dropping it so many times. One corner of my nice white Z10 is a little battered. I bought a black rubber-backed OEM battery door and I'm much happier.
    • The device is just a little too big for one-handed usage. Reaching the thumb across the the drag button in the browser that reveals other tabs is too difficult and I often drop the phone stubbornly trying to do it. I know why they made the phone so big, because that's what everyone else is doing, but I'm one of those people who thinks big phones are stupid and I guess I'm in the minority. Pre3 was about as big as a phone needs to be IMHO. Hope they make a slightly-smaller qwerty slider.
    • Wish I could use BBM but I've nobody to talk to on it. Hopefully everyone on iOS and Android will start using it but I doubt it.
    • Unlock-by-swipe is still a little inconsistent. You have to get it just right and not be too quick. Guess you want to be sure so it doesn't unlock in your pocket (which happens more often than I'd like). They should make a capacitive strip under the screen (like webOS devices) for added "run up" for the swipe so the software can be sure in detecting it.
    • It still forgets your rotation lock setting on reboot.
    • BlackBerry Travel is actually quite cool. I use it to remember my flight information etc. Would be nice if you could put your boarding pass PDF in there and use it to check-in. Also would be good if it supported on-line checkin for certain airlines, but I think that's a pipe-dream.
    • The apps situation - my needs are simple: browser, email, messaging, twitter, endomondo, lists/todo, weather, spotify. Sadly, still no Spotify and the company has said they've no plans to build one. Shame. Hopefully newer OS updates will update Android and allow the Android Spotify app to work.
    • The Maps app is awful. It is a little sluggish and buggy, but the worst thing is that the main thing I want to use it for is when I pop up out of the tube in London and want to know which way I'm facing. I look at street signs then look at the map...and it doesn't show and F'ing street names near me. Also it doesn't show tube stations, which makes orienting yourself around London difficult. I've downloaded a Google Maps app and it does the job, although it could be more slick. Hopefully Google release a good maps app for BB10.
    • Trying to hook up the phone as a USB device to transfer music was an adventure. I use Linux at work and a Mac at home. I refuse to install software on my machine to do it.
    • I hope BB bring auto nightly wifi backup to BB10, a la webOS. Right now I don't back up because of said refusal to install software to do these things. Not backing up is probably not good (don't care about contacts/calendar etc because I link it all to Gmail contacts, but I should still back up I guess).


    Current verdict: missing the physical keyboard, wish I had Spotify and would like better notifications. If you're coming from WebOS, switch to BB10, it's the nearest thing out there. I'm enjoying being back on the rollercoaster of "what will the next update bring?" instead of "damn you Leo Apotheker for ruining my dream".
    Last edited by gastr; 07-04-13 at 12:04 PM. Reason: Whoops didn't use dot points correctly
    07-04-13 10:05 AM
  9. ezapper2's Avatar
    Tired of using an OS that will never get an update to fix bugs and add new features, I finally made the jump from webOS (Pre3). I LOVE webOS, despite it's age and imperfections, and until BB10 i didn't see anything out there that i was interested in, so planned to stick with the Pre3 until it died and then perhaps cry. BB10 borrows enough from webOS IMHO but brings some new things. I wanted a physical keyboard but didn't find the Q10 aesthetically pleasing, so took the plunge on the keyboard-less Z10. Note that I've never had a BB device before.

    What I miss compared to webOS:
    • multi-tasking on the Z10 is great, but it still feels like one extra tap/swipe than webOS. but still better than any other OS out there IMHO.
    • the up-swipe gesture to reveal running apps feels like you have to drag rather than flick, it feels slower than it could be. hard to explain but i think webOS users will understand. i think they need to tune it.
    • webOS notifications are still better. having the miniature pop-up at the bottom of the screen was great because you know what the message was and who it was from, without interrupting what you're doing. with BB10 on the Z10 you have the red indicator only, and the peek to see more. again it's an extra step. but still a very good notifications system, don't get me wrong. if the "peek" gesture took you to the default Hub pane, or perhaps the pane associated with the source of the latest notification, that'd be helpful. currently it takes you to your last message or whatever, which is of course useless unless the latest notification happens to be from there. if they did away with all modal popups and added a webOS/iOS style notifications ticker at the top or bottom, and they then hid away but you could reach them in the Hub, i'd be happier (but i'm quite happy with it as it is anyway).
    • i miss the unlock screen outlining your outstanding notifications. with BB10 i can see the fact that i have notifications, and their source (FB, email, etc.), but not the sender or the contents. it's not very useful as it is. looks nice though.
    • wireless charging! more of a Z10 thing than a BB10 thing, but after using the touchstone for years i find myself plugging in my phone at putting it on the bedside table in a way that the cord hangs off the edge and the phone spins to sit perpendicular with the edge of the table as a result and i think "really?? this is so unsatisfactory. i feel like i'm back in the 90's" (an exaggeration, of course; i'll get used to it).
    • dismissing apps with a gesture would be great. tapping on the X is a bit finicky. you'd probably have to have a vertical one-column list and side-swipe to dismiss (think android has that). not a massive problem of course...
    • docs to go needs google drive integration (and other cloud services i guess, but that's what i use).
    • the search feature isn't as good as webOS' 'just type' feature. i want to tap search and punch in a web address and have it understand what i'm trying to do (but no i can only tap 'search google'). i also want to be able to search in apps like just type does. i saw a video about the Q10 having an improved search which is closer to webOS just type, so hopefully it's coming to the Z10 too, just with the added step of tapping on the search button or two-finger-swiping to bring up the keyboard. if this comes to just the Q10 i'll be upset.
    • i miss a physical keyboard (but see below). but i manage just fine.
    • automatic nightly backup over wifi. no setup or PC required.


    What I love about BB10 over webOS:
    • the Hub is a great concept. takes some getting used to though. it seems to be a little buggy sometimes, in terms of telling you that you have a notification when you've already read it, but i guess that'll get ironed out.
    • the calendar app is great. similar to the webOS one but very nice.
    • the browser is great.
    • many nice little touches everywhere through the OS (e.g. swipe up in hub for calendar events), designed to give you quick access to everything. a lot of thought has really gone into this and i'm glad they didn't release it early and half-baked.
    • clock/alarm app is great. nice UX. multiple alarms would be nice though.
    • remember app is great, too. although more finely-tuned alarms would be good, so i could use it as a simple 'reminder' app as well.
    • again more of a Z10 thing, but the battery life is considerably better than my pre3.
    • timeshift camera.
    • photo editing.
    • 'night mode' is nice. it's like webOS exhibition mode but with the ability to turn off notifications whilst you sleep. exhibition mode was great but it was too bright when sleeping. you could turn the screen off but it would light up again when you get a notification.
    • settings pull-down from the top of the screen is nice.
    • not having a back button/gesture actually works well. i thought i would miss it. webOS newbs found it unintuitive (and it is but you love it when you get used to it). BB10 has the toolbar back button which is nice but you can also just swipe back to push the pane across (in most places, sometimes it's odd when it doesn't work).
    • ...which brings me to the whole flow/cascades thing: it's really nice. you can drill down into a hierarchy yet still jump back to the overview by dragging the bottom-left button slowly to the right (in most places). and with the swipe-from-the-top menu and the 'overflow' menu that appears on the right- it is all well thought out and you can 'just flow' (yes it sounds cheesy but it's a good word for it).
    • the virtual keyboard is excellent. not as good as a physical one (of course). but i can't imagine anyone bettering this. shame the Z10 fibreglass back is slippery in the hand, because it makes one-thumb typing difficult, but that's not an OS thing. hopefully they sell grippy replacement battery covers (i don't want a case to cover my nice white Z10!).
    • BBM seems like a good feature, although I don't know anybody else with a BB phone so not much use to me personally.
    • having 'rotation lock' on the pull-down menu is fantastic. webOS phones don't have that and i always wished they did. the touchpad does.


    Gripes unrelated to webOS:
    • the 'up-swipe to unlock' gesture isn't recognised half the time. think they need to tune it.
    • pop-up modal dialogues are an INEXCUSABLE UX SIN. every time i get a wifi hotspot popup i want to strangle someone from RIM who was responsible for this. see unobtrusive webOS notifications note above. (yes i know i can turn it off but that's not the point; again, see my comments on notifications above).
    • maps: awful. you know it. latest webOS phones had bing maps though, so can't say it was any better.
    • twitter app sucks. at least keep a marker of where i'd last read up to. it's nice and sleek and uncluttered though.
    • reminders app keeps a list of emails in the 'unfiled' section, which i assume is meant to be flagged or important emails, but it isn't right. i've cleared the flag on emails that have appeared in there and those tasks haven't gone. not sure what they're trying to do here. could be a useful feature if they got it right or made the intent more clear.
    • BB world needs a way to see new apps, not just trending (which i assume means "promoted"). UPDATE: it does exist, you just have to drill into Applications or Games first, it isn't on the All page.
    • i like to keep 'rotation lock' on, but it forgets this setting on reboot.


    I won't go into a list of apps i want, that's another thread entirely (spotify, good twitter and a good google reader app are the only things i really can't live without, don't need anything else). Don't use FB or LinkedIn so can't comment there.

    Overall, I'm loving BB10 and my nice white Z10, and I'm looking forward to future updates to iron out some minor kinks, and to new apps.
    Seeing how this was posted Feb 14 I hope most of your gripes have been worked out.



    Posted via CB10 on Z10
    07-04-13 02:04 PM
  10. Daniel Montanaro's Avatar
    A very concise and detailed initial, as well as follow-up review. It's refreshing to see.
    07-04-13 02:33 PM
  11. ami.one's Avatar
    Agree fully with the OP's points. I loved my Pre. One reason I like my Z10 so much is that it's the closest to Pre amongst the current options. But still the 'cards' and flicking up thing on pre was beautiful and functional.
    So unfortunate that such a nice product couldn't be successful in the market - and even HP wasted the entire thing - that too after paying so much !
    Now I just hope & wish we don't end up in similar situation with BB10 in a couple of years.
    07-05-13 07:15 AM
  12. OldSkoolVWLover's Avatar
    I freking love my Z10, only real complaint is I miss the physical keyboard and inductive charging, charging stand is on its way and will go from there. Had initially wanted the Q, but after the wife went with the Z I was done, the Z is great, if all goes well we will get to see a BB10 slider. BB10 IS the webOS replacement, happy to see others feeling the same way
    yellowhammer likes this.
    07-05-13 05:56 PM
  13. Ax's Avatar
    A webos emulator for apps would be cool (non NDK app)... and possible, since its just javascript, json and html...

    Posted via CB10
    07-05-13 10:27 PM
  14. Stephen Severino's Avatar
    To the OP, as a workaround for your issue with Google Drive:

    The integration with Dropbox is great on BlackBerry 10. I use a service that synchronizes my Google Drive and Dropbox files. You might try one and see if it handles your issue.

    Posted via CB10
    gastr likes this.
    07-05-13 11:04 PM
  15. cvendra's Avatar
    Unlike many I do not miss the keyboard. Z10 keyboard is superb.

    I miss the notification, just type, easy access to many settings through device menu and homebrew support.

    I find webOS card interface much better.

    Posted via CB10
    07-06-13 05:41 AM
  16. quiestbml's Avatar
    Thanks so much for the great comparison! Looking at switching from my Nexus4, which I had purchased to replace my Pre3. I hate it. I miss webOS, but BB really looks awesome.
    07-06-13 12:31 PM
  17. spork141's Avatar
    As an ex pre 3 owner myself. The Q10 is overall a much better device.

    Posted using my Q10 via CB10
    OldSkoolVWLover likes this.
    07-06-13 01:37 PM
  18. Ventus221's Avatar
    Do you a bbm pin
    10-22-13 08:50 PM
  19. bazillus's Avatar
    Had a Palm Pre and later a few HP Veer. Liked them a lot, but the Q10 is much nicer

    I only miss the ability to close apps by swiping them up. No sense for active frames, what purpose do they have?

    Posted via CB10 on an awesome Z10STL100-2/10.2.0.1791
    11-07-13 03:56 AM
44 12

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