1. takaminacchan's Avatar
    Hi,

    After thinking about it for a while, I decided to grab myself a refurbished Passport (first BlackBerry device I've owned, initially I'm here for the screen and keyboard). I'm seriously loving it as a tool, and would like to use it for a potentially very long time, so I have a few questions I need to resolve (especially regarding the 2019 upcoming BB10 apocalypse).

    1. Let's assume BB10 does not plain stop working in 2020 (i.e. the devices don't turn into bricks, it's just that BBW is now missing and with it the main way to install apps). Let's also assume my device dies for whatever reason, but I have a backup of it in BlackBerry Link. Do I have any reasonably probable shot at restoring my backup onto another refurbished Passport, in the absence of the BlackBerry ID system? (Or to put it another way, is there a way to activate a recently wiped BB10 device without BB ID?)

    2. It appears that BB Link backups contain the apps that were present on the device at the time of backup (as well as said apps' documents). Can this be considered insurance against apps disappearing from BBW (and eventually, BBW itself disappearing)? I'm thinking of testing most of the apps that are still present and keeping the good ones around, specifically for future-proofing reasons.

    3. I know the battery is stated as sealed, but how definitive is that? Is there any way to replace a nearly-dead battery?

    4. Is there anything particularly worrying that comes to mind re: long-term use?

    For context, I'm not intending to use my Passport as a phone replacement (I carry both my Passport and an Android phone, currently a Note 4 even though it likely will be replaced within the next year). Instead, I am using it as a productivity/focus/agenda/reading hybrid tool (i.e. distraction-less text processing, calendar management, document visualization, general Internet browsing). This means Internet giants (Facebook, etc.) stopping development for BB10 isn't a problem, at least in the foreseeable future.

    Thanks for data!

    (I've glanced many many times at the KEY2, but although I might get one eventually, I do think BB10 is just better for the kind of focused workflow I'm looking for.)
    09-18-18 11:27 AM
  2. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Hi,

    After thinking about it for a while, I decided to grab myself a refurbished Passport (first BlackBerry device I've owned, initially I'm here for the screen and keyboard). I'm seriously loving it as a tool, and would like to use it for a potentially very long time, so I have a few questions I need to resolve (especially regarding the 2019 upcoming BB10 apocalypse).

    1. Let's assume BB10 does not plain stop working in 2020 (i.e. the devices don't turn into bricks, it's just that BBW is now missing and with it the main way to install apps). Let's also assume my device dies for whatever reason, but I have a backup of it in BlackBerry Link. Do I have any reasonably probable shot at restoring my backup onto another refurbished Passport, in the absence of the BlackBerry ID system? (Or to put it another way, is there a way to activate a recently wiped BB10 device without BB ID?)

    2. It appears that BB Link backups contain the apps that were present on the device at the time of backup (as well as said apps' documents). Can this be considered insurance against apps disappearing from BBW (and eventually, BBW itself disappearing)? I'm thinking of testing most of the apps that are still present and keeping the good ones around, specifically for future-proofing reasons.

    3. I know the battery is stated as sealed, but how definitive is that? Is there any way to replace a nearly-dead battery?

    4. Is there anything particularly worrying that comes to mind re: long-term use?

    For context, I'm not intending to use my Passport as a phone replacement (I carry both my Passport and an Android phone, currently a Note 4 even though it likely will be replaced within the next year). Instead, I am using it as a productivity/focus/agenda/reading hybrid tool (i.e. distraction-less text processing, calendar management, document visualization, general Internet browsing). This means Internet giants (Facebook, etc.) stopping development for BB10 isn't a problem, at least in the foreseeable future.

    Thanks for data!

    (I've glanced many many times at the KEY2, but although I might get one eventually, I do think BB10 is just better for the kind of focused workflow I'm looking for.)
    All speculation...


    1. I wouldn't assume that LINK will work tomorrow, much less years from now. Nor would I think that without the BBID System in place, would it allow for restoring backups.

    2. Not really sure, as I haven't used BB10 in a long while. Suggest that you give that a try without any WiFi or Cell Network Connection. My guess is that after 1/20/2020... full backup and restores aren't going to be an option with LINK. Might be that if the OS fails there won't be a way to reload the OS without starting from scratch (You can install the OS and bypass the BBID portion of setup). Just want to make sure that theft protection has been disabled.

    3. Battery can be replaced by a somewhat skilled user or a shop. If you can find a battery that's in good condition - batteries loose something with age, and I doubt anyone is manufacturing new Passport batteries.

    4. The obvious - BB10 is old as is the Android 4.3 Runtime, even third party browsers will be less useful in the future.

    Think you'll need to plan for the worst and hope of the best. Hopefully by Dec 2019 everyone still using BB10 will know what to expect and how they should prepare... no sense worrying about it now .
  3. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Hi,

    After thinking about it for a while, I decided to grab myself a refurbished Passport (first BlackBerry device I've owned, initially I'm here for the screen and keyboard). I'm seriously loving it as a tool, and would like to use it for a potentially very long time, so I have a few questions I need to resolve (especially regarding the 2019 upcoming BB10 apocalypse).

    1. Let's assume BB10 does not plain stop working in 2020 (i.e. the devices don't turn into bricks, it's just that BBW is now missing and with it the main way to install apps). Let's also assume my device dies for whatever reason, but I have a backup of it in BlackBerry Link. Do I have any reasonably probable shot at restoring my backup onto another refurbished Passport, in the absence of the BlackBerry ID system? (Or to put it another way, is there a way to activate a recently wiped BB10 device without BB ID?)

    2. It appears that BB Link backups contain the apps that were present on the device at the time of backup (as well as said apps' documents). Can this be considered insurance against apps disappearing from BBW (and eventually, BBW itself disappearing)? I'm thinking of testing most of the apps that are still present and keeping the good ones around, specifically for future-proofing reasons.

    3. I know the battery is stated as sealed, but how definitive is that? Is there any way to replace a nearly-dead battery?

    4. Is there anything particularly worrying that comes to mind re: long-term use?

    For context, I'm not intending to use my Passport as a phone replacement (I carry both my Passport and an Android phone, currently a Note 4 even though it likely will be replaced within the next year). Instead, I am using it as a productivity/focus/agenda/reading hybrid tool (i.e. distraction-less text processing, calendar management, document visualization, general Internet browsing). This means Internet giants (Facebook, etc.) stopping development for BB10 isn't a problem, at least in the foreseeable future.

    Thanks for data!

    (I've glanced many many times at the KEY2, but although I might get one eventually, I do think BB10 is just better for the kind of focused workflow I'm looking for.)
    All speculation...


    1. I wouldn't assume that LINK will work tomorrow, much less years from now. Nor would I think that without the BBID System in place, would it allow for restoring backups.

    2. Not really sure, as I haven't used BB10 in a long while. Suggest that you give that a try without any WiFi or Cell Network Connection. My guess is that after 1/20/2020... full backup and restores aren't going to be an option with LINK. Might be that if the OS fails there won't be a way to reload the OS without starting from scratch (You can install the OS and bypass the BBID portion of setup). Just want to make sure that theft protection has been disabled.

    3. Battery can be replaced by a somewhat skilled user or a shop. If you can find a battery that's in good condition - batteries loose something with age, and I doubt anyone is manufacturing new Passport batteries.

    4. The obvious - BB10 is old as is the Android 4.3 Runtime, even third party browsers will be less useful in the future.

    Think you'll need to plan for the worst and hope of the best. Hopefully by Dec 2019 everyone still using BB10 will know what to expect and how they should prepare... no sense worrying about it now .
    09-18-18 12:45 PM
  4. brookie229's Avatar
    1. No one knows yet about requirements for BBID and activation/re-installing the OS etc. Hopefully sometime next year BB will make a statement regarding this (my conjecture/hope only).

    2. It is a good idea to make a backup of all your apps/settings etc with Link (providing you can get it to work as many people cannot for various reasons) and you should be able to restore all of that content on a BB10 device providing that it is restored on a device with the same OS version.

    3. The battery is not that difficult to replace and there are videos on YouTube describing such.

    4. Lots to worry about with long term use but you have an android device handy (and probably always will) so just go with the flow like I will. What happens, happens.

    Good Luck!
    09-18-18 12:49 PM
  5. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    No one knows for sure when the BBID service will go away, but it's a certainly that you won't be able to restore a backup with Link without it.
    09-18-18 04:12 PM
  6. brookie229's Avatar
    but it's a certainly that you won't be able to restore a backup with Link without it
    I would add the caveat "with the way it stands right now". We just don't know if BB will change anything regarding Link and BBID. For all we know they may make a change to a final OS update or they may just shut everything down period.
    09-18-18 04:18 PM
  7. markmall's Avatar
    Does loading a backup really require connection to the bb server?

    How good are these backups anyway? I guess if b shuts down Link we could backup our apps.

    Posted via CB10
    09-18-18 04:39 PM
  8. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    I would add the caveat "with the way it stands right now". We just don't know if BB will change anything regarding Link and BBID. For all we know they may make a change to a final OS update or they may just shut everything down period.
    My guess it would be cheaper to leave the BBID Server up and running than to pay developers to delve into BB10 to remove the dependence on BBID and then chase any other issues or bugs that could cause....

    But my guess is that if revenue flow hasn't changed much by then.... Chen won't spend "anything" either way.

    Key to all this, is we are guessing... have to wait for BlackBerry to "know".
    brookie229 likes this.
    09-18-18 04:39 PM
  9. ZeBB45's Avatar
    All speculation...


    1. I wouldn't assume that LINK will work tomorrow, much less years from now. Nor would I think that without the BBID System in place, would it allow for restoring backups.
    Link works perfectly fine (running inside of a Windows 7 VM). I made backups of both my Passport SE and Classic without Link itself being signed into any BBID associated with any of said devices; so one can assume that we can still restore our native apps via previous backup after BlackBerry 'pulls the plug' on their servers.

    Posted via CB10
    09-18-18 05:10 PM
  10. takaminacchan's Avatar
    Windows 7 VM, gotcha. I was trying to run it on my Windows 10 machine, and it was failing miserably - so I ended up running it on a Mac instead. I'll look into configuring an adequate 7 VM for longer-term.

    The Link test I performed so far is as follows:
    - Perform a full backup in Link.
    - Uninstall a native app (... just to be sure, "native" = any BB10 app, in opposition to Android app, right?). Specifically I uninstalled CrackBerry.
    - Perform a couple changes in the files living in another app (Writer).
    - Use Link to restore to the backup created above.

    After the restoration, the app was back to where it used to be (which I assume means native apps are safe if they exist in the backup), and the changes in Writer weren't carried over (which is expected - application files are restored along with the apps themselves, so subsequent changes are trashed).

    The test was made while online, and while both the Passport and the Link instance were logged in to BB ID. I'll try performing the test again tomorrow, this time with everything logged out and while fully offline (and just for the sake of paranoia-proofing, with a freshly installed Link instance).

    If that second test works, as far as I can tell that means BB ID's server isn't actually required to use Link (i.e. this could potentially work indefinitely).

    Many thanks to everyone for the data!
    09-18-18 05:38 PM
  11. brookie229's Avatar
    so one can assume that we can still restore our native apps via previous backup after BlackBerry 'pulls the plug' on their servers.
    Not necessarily.........have you tried restoring that backup without being signed in?
    09-18-18 05:42 PM
  12. ZeBB45's Avatar
    Not yet. I see what you mean. A clean install on BB10 device without BBID authentication might prevent us from being able to restore previous backups due to the backups themselves containing BBID info.

    Posted via CB10
    09-18-18 07:57 PM
  13. ZeBB45's Avatar
    have you tried restoring that backup without being signed in?
    I will be able to test that out soon. It will be interesting to see what happens.

    Posted via CB10
    09-18-18 08:36 PM
  14. tegar ramadhanu kariadinata's Avatar
    as you want

     BlackBerry Passport RED Edition 10.3.3.2049
    09-18-18 09:18 PM
  15. takaminacchan's Avatar
    Alright, just tested it out. Tl;dr is BBID appears to be necessary no matter what at the current time.

    Testing procedure:
    - Uninstall Link.
    - Put both computer and Passport in airplane modes.
    - Reinstall Link. (No login required on this side.)
    - Perform a backup.
    - Deactivate BB Protect, perform a device security wipe (from within the device).
    - (This is where it gets messy.) In the new device setup procedure, you need to connect to the web (i.e. SIM or Wifi). You cannot connect to Link until the device has connected to the web at least once (Link plainly rejects you, demanding that you complete the setup first).
    - At this point, the device is properly setup but it has no BBID. It performs a software update check (by definition this requires BB servers).
    - In spite of the device being properly setup, it won't accept restoration yet. Link accepts trying but the process hangs after a minute with no effect.
    - Signing in to BBID from within the device makes restoration work again. (Link still offline.)

    An alternative procedure would be to set a device up with no BBID from the get go and see if this can be restored without ever logging in. However, there's a catch 22 going on - you can't install apps from BBW without a BBID.

    This might be a valid approach if there's a way to install apps without BBW, but I don't know whether there is one.

    Posted via CB10
    09-19-18 03:45 AM
  16. kvndoom's Avatar
    Passport is also an absolutely incredible music player. Paired with some quality headphones, I'd put it against just about anything else out there. My Priv was definitely a step down for music listening.
    09-19-18 05:32 AM
  17. ZeBB45's Avatar
    It doesn't allow you to restore a backup without your device being singed into the BBID that device you taken the backup from was signed into at the time of making the backup. Makes sense for them to do that, as it would be an easy way to pirate paid apps (and potentially jailbreak it) if you could restore any backup from any device.

    I did another autoload without signing in, and link says:
    'The BlackBerry ID associated with this backup file doesn't match the BlackBerry ID on this device.'

    The best advice would be to make a backup of all your apps now. Do a clean install at the end of next year and restore the apps you backed up recently (as by that time, most of them will have been pulled by their devs).

    Posted via CB10
    Dunt Dunt Dunt likes this.
    09-19-18 09:11 AM
  18. Leyra B10's Avatar
    Browser bookmarklets.. Clipboards, downloads, notes, webclipper, database. Lots of stuff the browser still allows.

    Posted via Z10
    09-19-18 10:17 AM
  19. Niallac's Avatar
    Passport is also an absolutely incredible music player. Paired with some quality headphones, I'd put it against just about anything else out there. My Priv was definitely a step down for music listening.
    Agreed. Coming back to this now from Q10, Motion, then KOBE. Passport is in a different league for fidelity.

    Posted via CB10
    09-19-18 10:32 AM
  20. markus2107's Avatar
    Another thing with LINK backups you should keep in mind is, that the BB you're using to restore the data has the same (or higher) BB OS version. So keep that in mind...
    09-19-18 12:16 PM
  21. ZeBB45's Avatar
    Another thing with LINK backups you should keep in mind is, that the BB you're using to restore the data has the same (or higher) BB OS version. So keep that in mind...
    Don't worry. I put the OS revision number on the name of the Backup



    Posted via CB10
    09-19-18 04:14 PM

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