12-19-15 02:48 AM
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  1. ssbtech's Avatar
    I know there are still some people who think BB10 shouldn't have the Android runtime. While I personally have no love for Android and generally find Android apps to be poorly designed, the Android runtime has proven useful several times for me.

    In fact, I'd say that most of the apps I use on a regular basis are Android ones.

    If I had to put up with iOS or Android, I'd rather not have a smartphone.

    Just today I was assisting an iPad user with sending photos by email and I couldn't believe how convoluted and arduous the process was to attach multiple photos to an email.
    12-10-15 12:12 AM
  2. ppeters914's Avatar
    Miss your Z30?

    Posted on CB10 using my Z30 STA 100-5 on OS 10.3.2.2813
    I used a Passport SE for a few months in between.

    I have nostalgia for my BB10 devices, but it seems like I can do so much more now. The horsepower in this Priv is something else.

    My son uses my Z30, so I get to pick it up every now and then. Although nice, I have to admit it feels a bit old.
    What about the Priv vs the PP SE?



    Posted via CB10 / AT&T /Z10 STL100-3 /10.3.2.2813
    12-10-15 12:31 AM
  3. conite's Avatar
    What about the Priv vs the PP SE?



    Posted via CB10 / AT&T /Z10 STL100-3 /10.3.2.2813
    Well, the Z30 and PP have the identical OS, so I guess you're asking me to compare the form factor of the PP versus the Priv?

    I didn't think it would happen, but I don't miss the PP that much. I'm back using the vkb 95% of the time, and it's really nice to have the big screen back for media. And I'm back to one-handed use - I didn't realise how much I missed that!
    12-10-15 07:17 AM
  4. themightyshark's Avatar
    I tried Facebook messenger but incompatible message! BBC sport app works well though!

    Posted via CB10
    12-10-15 02:24 PM
  5. diego.roscetti's Avatar
    Well, the Z30 and PP have the identical OS, so I guess you're asking me to compare the form factor of the PP versus the Priv?

    I didn't think it would happen, but I don't miss the PP that much. I'm back using the vkb 95% of the time, and it's really nice to have the big screen back for media. And I'm back to one-handed use - I didn't realise how much I missed that!
    Agreed about the one handed use. I couldn't stand the PKB on the Priv. The top rows of keys was a struggle to press and I found myself using the VKB a lot more.

    Posted via CB10
    12-10-15 04:05 PM
  6. Ulferini Schusterotti's Avatar
    BB10 is such a liquid smooth OS. Why would anyone want to abandon it because the app gap? They should at least give it a try. I've used Android and it sucks...same for iOS. I hate to see BB10 just die because of lack of apps or games.

    Posted via CB10
    I used many Android devices but can't go "back" to Android since the Q10 And Classic. I even have the Priv here on my desk, but it's ready to be returned.
    12-13-15 11:20 AM
  7. mrabody's Avatar
    I agree that real issue with BB10 was the lack of marketing and lack of ready availability of the handsets. The so-called "App Gap" problem was massively overstated. I recently read that 40% of smart phone users haven't downloaded an app in the past month. And I see lots of older people with smartphones who don't strike me as heavy users of candy crush or instagram.

    BlackBerry's underlying problem is that its early success as a smartphone manufacturer almost came to it by accident and the phones sold themselves by reputation and through word-of mouth.

    They failed to market the BB10 handsets properly amd failed to manage investors expectations. This left them reliant upon the carriers to push the handsets and unfortunately the carriers decided that iPhone and Android were easier to push.


    Posted via CB10
    12-13-15 12:11 PM
  8. ssbtech's Avatar
    I recently read that 40% of smart phone users haven't downloaded an app in the past month. And I see lots of older people with smartphones who don't strike me as heavy users of candy crush or instagram.
    I love the uncomplicated, uncluttered simplicity of BB10, but I disagree that the app-gap isn't a problem.

    Most people are more interested in a phone that can do a variety of things throughout the day. Just being a "communications tool" isn't enough.

    While BB10 can handle basic tasks such as attaching files to emails much better than iOS, it's iOS that gives people a platform that integrates into more aspects of their daily lives. The app-gap problem extends way beyond Candy Crush and Instagram.
    12-13-15 12:20 PM
  9. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    I agree that real issue with BB10 was the lack of marketing and lack of ready availability of the handsets. The so-called "App Gap" problem was massively overstated. I recently read that 40% of smart phone users haven't downloaded an app in the past month. And I see lots of older people with smartphones who don't strike me as heavy users of candy crush or instagram.
    The article you read either didn't give any context, or you didn't mention it. Smartphones aren't new to most people, and most people do the majority of their app downloading when they get their new device - by now they already know which apps they need and they don't need to be constantly exploring for new ones.

    What's more important to people is that, tomorrow, or next week, or next month, or next year, when their circumstances change or when a new important app is released, that it will be available on their device. Or... that an app that they rely on today doesn't stop working tomorrow. Keep in mind as well that most people aren't prepared to patch apps, find old versions, or sideload. Apps that aren't in BB World or Amazon Marketplace simply won't be available at all for those folks.

    Finally, just because certain folks don't use Instagram or Candy Crush doesn't mean they don't use one of thousands of industry-specific professional apps, or just Facebook to keep up with their families.

    Like it or not, apps are and will continue to be a big deal for most consumers.
    12-13-15 03:26 PM
  10. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    The article you read either didn't give any context, or you didn't mention it. Smartphones aren't new to most people, and most people do the majority of their app downloading when they get their new device - by now they already know which apps they need and they don't need to be constantly exploring for new ones.

    What's more important to people is that, tomorrow, or next week, or next month, or next year, when their circumstances change or when a new important app is released, that it will be available on their device. Or... that an app that they rely on today doesn't stop working tomorrow. Keep in mind as well that most people aren't prepared to patch apps, find old versions, or sideload. Apps that aren't in BB World or Amazon Marketplace simply won't be available at all for those folks.

    Finally, just because certain folks don't use Instagram or Candy Crush doesn't mean they don't use one of thousands of industry-specific professional apps, or just Facebook to keep up with their families.

    Like it or not, apps are and will continue to be a big deal for most consumers.
    What he said -----^^^^^

    Posted via CB10
    12-13-15 03:37 PM
  11. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    Almost 2016, and long after BBRY itself has acknowledged its existence, folks still question the App Gap.

    I find it especially entertaining; it's like our very own homegrown truther movement.
    DrBoomBotz and early2bed like this.
    12-13-15 05:32 PM
  12. Vistaus's Avatar
    The article you read either didn't give any context, or you didn't mention it. Smartphones aren't new to most people, and most people do the majority of their app downloading when they get their new device - by now they already know which apps they need and they don't need to be constantly exploring for new ones.

    What's more important to people is that, tomorrow, or next week, or next month, or next year, when their circumstances change or when a new important app is released, that it will be available on their device. Or... that an app that they rely on today doesn't stop working tomorrow. Keep in mind as well that most people aren't prepared to patch apps, find old versions, or sideload. Apps that aren't in BB World or Amazon Marketplace simply won't be available at all for those folks.

    Finally, just because certain folks don't use Instagram or Candy Crush doesn't mean they don't use one of thousands of industry-specific professional apps, or just Facebook to keep up with their families.

    Like it or not, apps are and will continue to be a big deal for most consumers.
    But marketing is also the problem. How is the average person supposed to know that BB10 exists if BlackBerry doesn't do marketing? That's the core of the problem here, apps are only part 2. First do marketing so people get to know about your phones/OS, then apps will come eventually as more and more devs get interested to develop for a growing platform.

    Posted via CB10 using BlackBerry Passport (OG Red)
    elfabio80 likes this.
    12-14-15 01:11 AM
  13. early2bed's Avatar
    If marketing was all that was necessary then most of your families and friends would be using Blackberrys. They would have heard about them from a trusted knowledgeable source.
    Vistaus likes this.
    12-14-15 01:33 AM
  14. Soulstream's Avatar
    But marketing is also the problem. How is the average person supposed to know that BB10 exists if BlackBerry doesn't do marketing? That's the core of the problem here, apps are only part 2. First do marketing so people get to know about your phones/OS, then apps will come eventually as more and more devs get interested to develop for a growing platform.

    Posted via CB10 using BlackBerry Passport (OG Red)
    The thing about the "only marketing was the problem" is that Microsoft proved that even investing a lot of money into marketing isn't always the solution. Windows phone had Nokia behind it (which was very popular in Europe) and also Microsoft's deep pockets and it still only gathered around 3% market share and a lot of apps are missing and/or lack features compared to Android/iOS ones.

    And another thing about WP is that a very large part of that market-share are low-end phones (33% of WP devices are Lumias 520 according to a 2014 article). Windows phones has not been profitable for Microsoft at all, but they can continue to fight a long "war" because they have some very good alternate revenue streams (Windows desktop OS, Office licences, xbox consoles). BB has no such luxury as it was always a hardware mainly business.

    So no, marketing is not the magical solution BB10 lacked.
    12-14-15 05:28 AM
  15. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    But marketing is also the problem. How is the average person supposed to know that BB10 exists if BlackBerry doesn't do marketing? That's the core of the problem here, apps are only part 2. First do marketing so people get to know about your phones/OS, then apps will come eventually as more and more devs get interested to develop for a growing platform.
    Of course - marketing was abysmal in quality/content and there wasn't enough. Marketing is one of the many other problems BB had and has.

    But here's the issue: having a strong ecosystem doesn't absolutely ensure your success, but not having a strong ecosystem absolutely ensures your failure. That's one of the reasons why there has been so little marketing with previous BB10 phones - Chen understands that marketing dollars would have been wasted without an ecosystem. That's also why he's willing to spend a little on the Priv.

    As Soulstream points out, though, billions of dollars spent on marketing and advertising still aren't a guaranteed success, as Microsoft has proved (and MS's ads are actually pretty good). And BB wasn't in any position to spend a tenth of what MS was spending - yet with a whole new OS (BB10) and ecosystem to support, they absolutely needed to be able to spend billions demonstrating to people, one concept at a time, why the BB solution was better than iOS or Android. Just like iOS ads showed off one feature or concept at a time, so that people could digest bite-sized ideas, this is what BB needed to do. A whole commercial on BB10's gesture navigation, for example. Most importantly, though - a series of commercials and print ads that clearly communicated that BB10 was an all-new OS with no direct connection to BBOS.

    But at this point, that's all moot. Whatever hardware future BB has remaining will be with Android, and everyone already understands Android, so most of the marketing spend is unnecessary.
    12-14-15 10:37 AM
  16. Vistaus's Avatar
    If marketing was all that was necessary then most of your families and friends would be using Blackberrys. They would have heard about them from a trusted knowledgeable source.
    Dude, did you even read my post? I didn't say marketing was the only problem, I said it was ALSO the problem. In other words: it was part of the problem.

    Posted via CB10 using BlackBerry Passport (OG Red)
    12-15-15 12:56 AM
  17. th.1977's Avatar
    Windows phone may have spent a lot on marketing but I have yet to see a commercial for them. I have for Samsung and apple however

    Posted via CB10
    12-15-15 02:07 AM
  18. Soulstream's Avatar
    Windows phone may have spent a lot on marketing but I have yet to see a commercial for them. I have for Samsung and apple however

    Posted via CB10
    It depends on where you are. There were a lot of Nokia (with lumias) related ads in Europe, because Nokia was a very powerful brand here. Even now I see some ads with offers to Lumia devices on carrier websites.
    12-15-15 08:13 AM
  19. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    But marketing is also the problem. How is the average person supposed to know that BB10 exists if BlackBerry doesn't do marketing? That's the core of the problem here, apps are only part 2. First do marketing so people get to know about your phones/OS, then apps will come eventually as more and more devs get interested to develop for a growing platform.
    I completely disagree with this.

    Let's say BlackBerry says, "OK - we're gonna take every last penny we have and promote BlackBerry 10 and BlackBerry 10 devices" so the world knows about them.

    You know what will happen? A lot of people will now know about a platform, ask about app x, y and z and pass on the device.

    Result: Big expensive, money losing campaign.
    12-15-15 12:16 PM
  20. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    I completely disagree with this.

    Let's say BlackBerry says, "OK - we're gonna take every last penny we have and promote BlackBerry 10 and BlackBerry 10 devices" so the world knows about them.

    You know what will happen? A lot of people will now know about a platform, ask about app x, y and z and pass on the device.

    Result: Big expensive, money losing campaign.
    It might actually be worse. They might assume the apps are available and return the device when they realize the truth.
    12-15-15 12:32 PM
  21. ubizmo's Avatar
    It might actually be worse. They might assume the apps are available and return the device when they realize the truth.
    That's definitely worse. A returned BlackBerry is worse for BlackBerry than one never sold in the first place, because it pushes both users and carriers from ignorance and indifference to hostility toward the brand.
    DrBoomBotz likes this.
    12-15-15 03:39 PM
  22. Vistaus's Avatar
    I completely disagree with this.

    Let's say BlackBerry says, "OK - we're gonna take every last penny we have and promote BlackBerry 10 and BlackBerry 10 devices" so the world knows about them.

    You know what will happen? A lot of people will now know about a platform, ask about app x, y and z and pass on the device.

    Result: Big expensive, money losing campaign.
    But when more people become interested, it will also attract devs meaning those apps *will* come eventually.

    Posted via CB10 using BlackBerry Passport (OG Red)
    12-16-15 01:18 AM
  23. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    But when more people become interested, it will also attract devs meaning those apps *will* come eventually.

    Posted via CB10 using BlackBerry Passport (OG Red)
    It doesn't work that way when their are already 2 alternatives with thriving ecosystems. If by some miracle 24 million Z10's sold in the first year then more devs would have started supporting the platform. But it didn't happen and won't happen. If it does I'll buy you a beer.
    12-16-15 03:48 AM
  24. Soulstream's Avatar
    But when more people become interested, it will also attract devs meaning those apps *will* come eventually.

    Posted via CB10 using BlackBerry Passport (OG Red)
    Most devs don't really care about which ecosystems are viable, as long as they are. It just happened that for mobile iOS and Android became the viable one. It could have very well been BB10.

    if <ecosystem A> + <ecosystem B> = 95% market share, then for almost all devs the name of the ecosystems doesn't matter and any other ecosystem would most likely be ignored.
    12-16-15 06:46 AM
  25. Grespon's Avatar
    I think BlackBerry should stop selling the idea of the most secure platform. Because most people don't really care about it. And when people think about BlackBerry what comes to their mind is a closed and limited platform. If they had normal phones to sell for the masses too maybe they could stay in competition. Security would be a 'plus' for people who need/want security instead of being a 'less' to most everyone in the world who cares about the app ecosystem.

    Posted via CB10
    12-16-15 10:53 AM
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