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Love that big 1x1 ratio screen. Even though 4.5 inches my friends think it's larger screen then their six inch screened phones. Hah...
Posted via CB1008-01-17 03:11 PMLike 0 - We've never talked about an individual app. We've talked about the Android Runtime environment which needs to constantly negotiate between android apps and the BB10 OS - handling notifications, access to services, providing alternatives to the google framework, etc. Big, big difference.BigBadWulf likes this.08-01-17 03:25 PMLike 1
- We've never talked about an individual app. We've talked about the Android Runtime environment which needs to constantly negotiate between android apps and the BB10 OS - handling notifications, access to services, providing alternatives to the google framework, etc. Big, big difference.
A runtime that has to host apps needs much more access and much tighter integration. This is so the runtime can provide all the capabilities and APIs that it must provide to apps, and do this in a performant way that doesn't slaughter the user's battery.
The idea of a full Android runtime (even sans GPS) is not possible.BigBadWulf likes this.08-01-17 04:10 PMLike 1 -
In addition, BB10 is much close nit compare to droid, you don't need security patch every month (just see how many month no update, it still ok somewhat). ROM estimate for full support, say head count of 20ish (just support) at 100K per head, that still a managable amount (x2.5 if you wish add on overhead). The SDK is different animal, it really need some attention if you are going to revamp to next level, That could be a money pit if no strong PM on hand... with 30-50 million support? I would get AI (security patch and some update on network protocol, no hardware support). It is not droid that full of holes, BB10 is much less "hole-ly". IMHO. (the problem is not money, but the will of the key players- there are enough "investor" just want license everything and collect money monthly... not doing anything).08-01-17 04:17 PMLike 0 - I think the problem is that you believe the Player provides a means for a guest OS to run. That it is similar to Virtual Box or VMware. Dalvik's purpose in Android is to abstract away the instruction set of the underlying hardware making one APK runnable (JNI voids this) on various architectures such as ARM, x86/64 and PowerPC. Therefore Dalvik passes operating system functionality to the underlying OS instead of running a full OS. Though, in VMware and similar VMs, drivers can be used to do something similar.08-01-17 04:25 PMLike 0
- I think the problem is that you believe the Player provides a means for a guest OS to run. That it is similar to Virtual Box or VMware. Dalvik's purpose in Android is to abstract away the instruction set of the underlying hardware making one APK runnable (JNI voids this) on various architectures such as ARM, x86/64 and PowerPC. Therefore Dalvik passes operating system functionality to the underlying OS instead of running a full OS. Though, in VMware and similar VMs, drivers can be used to do something similar.08-01-17 05:03 PMLike 0
- I think the problem is that you believe the Player provides a means for a guest OS to run. That it is similar to Virtual Box or VMware. Dalvik's purpose in Android is to abstract away the instruction set of the underlying hardware making one APK runnable (JNI voids this) on various architectures such as ARM, x86/64 and PowerPC. Therefore Dalvik passes operating system functionality to the underlying OS instead of running a full OS. Though, in VMware and similar VMs, drivers can be used to do something similar.
How can you do that within a BB10 app?
What happens when BB10 (because of the serious design flaw in its memory model) has to kill your runtime app because the user switched to some other high mem usage app, like the browser? Are you going to restart the entire Android stack every time a user switches back to an Android app?
Somewhere between the extremes of a full virtualized machine and what you can do inside a mobile app is the reality of running something like the Android runtime.
Look at it another way, if 3rd party BB10 apps could do everything a runtime needs to do, that would be a major security hole. Big enough to drive a truck through.BigBadWulf likes this.08-01-17 05:03 PMLike 1 -
Look at it another way, if 3rd party BB10 apps could do everything a runtime needs to do, that would be a major security hole. Big enough to drive a truck through.
In what way does an Android app need more access to the system then a native app?08-01-17 05:22 PMLike 0 -
A runtime needs much more than an app. Like the example I just gave you about process orchestration. Apps can't do that.
As for the flaw: BB decided to use a very simplistic memory model like what you have on desktop/laptop computers. The engineers at Palm, Android, Microsoft and Apple all figured out you can't do that on phones because phones can't write dirty pages to disk. Somehow the BB10 team missed that fact, even though the BBOS team no doubt knew that. As I understand it, the teams were kept totally separate and QNX had never run on a device like a phone.
The implication is that when under memory pressure BB10 has no options other than to kill apps. It's a very rudimentary and naive way to manage memory. Android has a much more sophisticated and well thought out approach.08-01-17 05:30 PMLike 0 - Your saying BB10 doesn't have virtual memory? Actually, it does.
Also, the IPC and userland functionality of the OS would be issues in Linux, but not Neutrino.Last edited by DonHB; 08-01-17 at 05:49 PM. Reason: Acting like conite -- removed lack of time to substantiate.
08-01-17 05:38 PMLike 0 -
People who make phone operating systems know this. The BB10 team did not. The is not an issue in cars or nuclear power plants, particularly when you don't have 3rd party apps.
You can test this yourself on a BB10 device. Open a bunch of apps. Pretty soon the OS starts killing apps. It has no choice. On Android you can open dozens of apps and this won't happen.Troy Tiscareno likes this.08-01-17 05:47 PMLike 1 -
- No, that's not true. Virtual memory just means that processes see a virtual address space that is mapped to physical pages (usually by hardware). QNX supports that just like any other modern kernel.
Windows CE, Windows 10 on phones, Android, iOS, PalmOS, WebOS (on phones) are all example of operating systems that have virtual memory but are configured to not swap out dirty pages.
BB10 is also configured to not swap out dirty pages. However, the problem is they designed their process and memory as if it could. That's a huge mistake and one that would be difficult to fix now. But it doesn't matter because few people care anymore.Troy Tiscareno and StephanieMaks like this.08-01-17 06:11 PMLike 2 - Has Android changed since this was written.
The answer with zero votes has incorrect information, which is probably why it has zero up votes. I'd actually down vote it after reading it, but I'm too nice.
Android can and does kill and restart underlying processes. The brilliance of their model is that this doesn't require killing and restarting the app (the collection of services and activities). It's that decoupling that is important. iOS has something similar. So does Windows. So did WebOS. So did PalmOS before it.Troy Tiscareno and eshropshire like this.08-01-17 06:15 PMLike 2 -
What's more interesting to read is what the other teams did to make all of this work much better for phones, especially ones where users are installing an arbitrary number of 3rd party apps. You can then contrast what Apple, Google, Palm and Microsoft all did compared to the simple naive approach in BB10.
There's a lot of content around this. A decent start is here on the process model:
https://developer.android.com/guide/...lifecycle.html
Also search for application cycle or memory management in Apple's WWDC videos from like 2010-2015 or so in that range.Last edited by app_Developer; 08-01-17 at 08:20 PM.
08-01-17 08:05 PMLike 4 - Blackberry posted to there developers around 2 years ago that there would be no changes to the ART. Even if the changes you want did not directly violate the terms of Blackberry's OHA agreement the changes would violate the spirit of the agreement. BlackBerry Limited's relationship with Google would be finished.
BlackBerry Limited as an enterprise software company with a major focus on mobile and IoT needs a great working relationship with Google. BlackBerry Limited gets absolutely ZERO from updating ART. They stand to loose a lot.08-01-17 11:38 PMLike 0 -
Thinking just in short term money is not good and IMO
This is a PalmOS situation, it was bad for them and will be bad for BB.
As user I don't care how they divide the company, how departments are configured, etc..
If you don't respect your users, you cannot expect to be respected.
With the payment of a couple of executives we could a proper and updated OS
Posted via CB1008-02-17 09:54 AMLike 0 - Just because they owe support to users and companies, as customers the only possible revenge is not buying their new devices.
Thinking just in short term money is not good and IMO
This is a PalmOS situation, it was bad for them and will be bad for BB.
As user I don't care how they divide the company, how departments are configured, etc..
If you don't respect your users, you cannot expect to be respected.
With the payment of a couple of executives we could a proper and updated OS
Posted via CB10
What is a "proper" update? Since their hands are tied on the Android Runtime and 3rd party developers have left in droves, would a few more browser certificates satisfy you?08-02-17 10:24 AMLike 0
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Like to see one more BB10 device.
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