1. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    With any EOL product, in particular one with so many outside dependencies like a smartphone, if you are using that product, you need to be prepared for it, or parts of it, to stop working on any random day with no advance warning and no forthcoming fix. No one can say which day that will be, but it could be any day after 12/31/2019.

    So, make sure you have backed up all of your data into UNencrypted, NON-proprietary formats (meaning: Link backups won't cut it, as they require a working device and BB server infrastructure to restore). Expect to need (the ability) to move that data to another platform on any random day, which means it needs to be in a format that other platforms can read and import.

    It might also be worthwhile to have a non-BBOS/BB10 device available as a backup. You don't want to Uber someplace and then find you can't get back, or be caught without access to your documents or emails or texts or pics.

    Once you've got that, and have a system to maintain it, you can continue to carry and use your BB10 devices for as long as they work for you, with the understanding that apps and services are fully expected to break over time, and most won't be "fixed" when they do.

    Please take seriously the need to preserve access to your data. BB's extra security is very good at preventing even the original owner from accessing data saved on the device when things go wrong, and if you don't have recent and thorough backups, that data could be gone forever. Don't let that happen to you!
    11-23-19 08:51 PM
  2. mrsimon's Avatar
    Always sensible, pragmatic and informative. You should get a medal.
    John Albert likes this.
    11-24-19 01:29 AM
  3. eshropshire's Avatar
    It's important to note that, as far as we know, there is no new revenue associated with support for BB10, though there may be some extended licensing for BB's legacy enterprise services to provide business justification for continued back-end service support.

    But, in the absence of significant revenue, if it becomes a hassle to support the back end of BB10, BlackBerry Limited may shut it down.

    On the other hand, if it's stable, low-risk and inexpensive, we could enjoy a long slow ride into the sunset of BB10.

    I can see myself using BB10 until the radio bands no longer work or batteries are no longer available. It's that good for me.

    From the screen of my trusty Z10 using the exceptional BlackBerry VKB.
    I am fully convinced the decision to keep the backend services running is due to being cheaper than creating an version of BB10 that is not dependent on the services. As older phones age, updates are unpredictable on these phones. Plus, I am sure the BB10 test team was dismantled long ago. A new team, even with old automated tests would miss many bugs.

    The current plan let's BlackBerry Limited eliminate what is left of the BB10 support team. They may have a few employees on expensive completion contracts that are scheduled to end next month. Keeping a few aging servers going for awhile is the cheepest option.
    11-24-19 01:31 AM
  4. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    I am fully convinced the decision to keep the backend services running is due to being cheaper than creating an version of BB10 that is not dependent on the services. As older phones age, updates are unpredictable on these phones. Plus, I am sure the BB10 test team was dismantled long ago. A new team, even with old automated tests would miss many bugs.

    The current plan let's BlackBerry Limited eliminate what is left of the BB10 support team. They may have a few employees on expensive completion contracts that are scheduled to end next month. Keeping a few aging servers going for awhile is the cheepest option.
    You may be right. I do think there was a plan to update BB10 one more time to remove the dependencies, and I'm certain there was no business case for that! I also have reason to suspect there are still some small government agencies using BB10 who could easily pay a couple of million dollars for continued support of the back end services.

    My hope is that they have migrated those services to cost-effective, sustainable platforms and that they can be maintained indefinitely.

    From the screen of my trusty Z10 using the exceptional BlackBerry VKB.
    11-24-19 03:56 AM
  5. SteinwayTransitCorp's Avatar
    The information I have is that there are only a couple hundred thousand of each. And by that, I mean active primary devices.

    There are easily more than a million working devices for sure - I have about 7 myself. Lol.
    As do I that makes 14.........on a roll.
    11-24-19 04:46 PM
  6. m3ach's Avatar
    As do I that makes 14.........on a roll.
    I've got 5 so that's 19, any more?

    Posted via CB10 using my OG Passport running 10.3.3.3216
    11-25-19 03:54 AM
  7. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    I've got 5 so that's 19, any more?

    Posted via CB10 using my OG Passport running 10.3.3.3216
    I mentioned earlier

    I have 8 different BB10 hardware.
    But I don’t think included, that should get us 27 right?
    Last edited by Chuck Finley69; 11-25-19 at 06:51 AM.
    11-25-19 06:39 AM
  8. m3ach's Avatar
    I mentioned earlier



    But I don’t think included, that should get us 28 right?
    I think that makes 27 correct me if I'm wrong. Lol

    Posted via CB10 using my OG Passport running 10.3.3.3216
    11-25-19 06:46 AM
  9. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    I think that makes 27 correct me if I'm wrong. Lol

    Posted via CB10 using my OG Passport running 10.3.3.3216
    What?!? Did I say 28? Clearly it says 27...... LOL - you’re right I didn’t proof after I typed but I fixed it now. Clearly I’m infamously stuck with the perfection myth shattered....
    11-25-19 06:53 AM
  10. m3ach's Avatar
    What?!? Did I say 28? Clearly it says 27...... LOL - you’re right I didn’t proof after I typed but I fixed it now. Clearly I’m infamously stuck with the perfection myth shattered....
    You could have said you included the OP's device, perfection would have been reinstated.

    Too late now though Chuck! LOL

    Posted via CB10 using my OG Passport running 10.3.3.3216
    11-25-19 07:01 AM
  11. eshropshire's Avatar
    One question I have is about the number of unique users of BB10. If BlackBerry Limited sold between 8-9 million phones how many were sold to one person, and how many were sold to BB10 lovers. I doubt amny bought 5+ units, but I bet most bougjt at least 2 during the active years of BB10 2013-16.
    11-25-19 07:12 PM
  12. conite's Avatar
    One question I have is about the number of unique users of BB10. If BlackBerry Limited sold between 8-9 million phones how many were sold to one person, and how many were sold to BB10 lovers. I doubt amny bought 5+ units, but I bet most bougjt at least 2 during the active years of BB10 2013-16.
    12 million BB10 units were sold - most of which in 2013 and 2014 (about 9.6 million). You can imagine how many 5-6 year old devices are still in use as primary daily drivers.
    11-25-19 07:35 PM
  13. joeldf's Avatar
    One question I have is about the number of unique users of BB10. If BlackBerry Limited sold between 8-9 million phones how many were sold to one person, and how many were sold to BB10 lovers. I doubt amny bought 5+ units, but I bet most bougjt at least 2 during the active years of BB10 2013-16.
    I bought my Z10 in August of 2013. And that was it. Only because AT&T never sold another BB10 I wanted - a worthy successor to the Z10.

    They passed on the Z30, but then, I never cared for its look anyway. And the Passport was not for me.
    11-25-19 09:53 PM
  14. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    I bought my Z10 in August of 2013. And that was it. Only because AT&T never sold another BB10 I wanted - a worthy successor to the Z10.

    They passed on the Z30, but then, I never cared for its look anyway. And the Passport was not for me.
    Pretty much the same story for me. The Z30 was a better phone, especially with USB OtG and FM radio, but I liked the smaller Z10 size.

    I don't believe in replacing working solutions with marginally better ones unless there is a clear ROI benefit. AT&T never offered a suitable replacement for the Z10, and it wasn't worth it to me to buy an unlocked Z30, Passport, etc.

    I understand why some people might consider BB10 not to be viable in 2019. But for someone who still uses a work-focused smartphone in 2019 for pretty much the same purposes as I did in 2010-13, my six year-old Z10 checks all the boxes.

    I definitely like having the KEYone around for Android apps. But if I were forced to carry a single phone to get through a long, busy workday running from meeting to meeting,it would still be the Z10, not the Android phone.

    From the screen of my trusty Z10 using the exceptional BlackBerry VKB.
    11-26-19 06:27 AM
  15. eshropshire's Avatar
    12 million BB10 units were sold - most of which in 2013 and 2014 (about 9.6 million). You can imagine how many 5-6 year old devices are still in use as primary daily drivers.
    Going off the 12 million number - if most BB10 users bought at least 2 BB10 phones, seems like there were only maybe 6 to 7 million users. Who knows for sure. Currently in the US the average life span of a Smartphone is 2.86 years for consumers an 2.56 years for consumers. Considering the last BB10 was released over 4.5 years ago, but most purchased 5.5-6 years ago. Wonder what the number is for current primary users and current casual users.
    11-26-19 02:41 PM
  16. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    I have no hard evidence to back this up, but I would bet that it's under 100k worldwide, and dropping by about 10% per month.

    I think those same numbers likely describe BBOS as well.
    11-26-19 04:35 PM
  17. eshropshire's Avatar
    I have no hard evidence to back this up, but I would bet that it's under 100k worldwide, and dropping by about 10% per month.

    I think those same numbers likely describe BBOS as well.
    I suspect your BBOS number is a little low. I am not sure financially they could justify internally keeping the BIS servers running for 100K devices. I know companies that still actively support BBOS.

    We were a BB10 developer for our enterprise software. By the middle of 2016 we only had one sizable customer still using BB10. They were told they needed a migration plan off BB10. We met with BlackBerry in mid 2016. After the meeting we stopped all BB10 development. I can't reveal the conversation, but I will say it was a very friendly meeting. We are still a BlackBerry Developer for their mobile enterprise solutions.

    I do not believe BlackBerry Limited is keeping the BB10 services running due to large customer demand. The cost to create a BB10 update to break connections to the services would be expensive. The testing alone would be extremely complicated. Most of their existing automated test likely would not work. Plus, the cost of the bad PR if something is broken by the update. My guess is the cost of keeping the services running for 1 year is between 2-5% of the cost of creating an update.
    11-26-19 04:53 PM
  18. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    I suspect your BBOS number is a little low. I am not sure financially they could justify internally keeping the BIS servers running for 100K devices. I know companies that still actively support BBOS.

    We were a BB10 developer for our enterprise software. By the middle of 2016 we only had one sizable customer still using BB10. They were told they needed a migration plan off BB10. We met with BlackBerry in mid 2016. After the meeting we stopped all BB10 development. I can't reveal the conversation, but I will say it was a very friendly meeting. We are still a BlackBerry Developer for their mobile enterprise solutions.

    I do not believe BlackBerry Limited is keeping the BB10 services running due to large customer demand. The cost to create a BB10 update to break connections to the services would be expensive. The testing alone would be extremely complicated. Most of their existing automated test likely would not work. Plus, the cost of the bad PR if something is broken by the update. My guess is the cost of keeping the services running for 1 year is between 2-5% of the cost of creating an update.
    In your informed experience, how long do you think backend services for BB10 can and will continue to operate? As you’ve stated, by running, I’m assuming you mean just until things physically break.
    11-26-19 07:23 PM
  19. EFats's Avatar
    I have no hard evidence to back this up, but I would bet that it's under 100k worldwide, and dropping by about 10% per month.

    I think those same numbers likely describe BBOS as well.
    You're off by at least an order of magnitude, too low. I don't know if there's been an update but the prior quarter the CEO himself said there were still millions of users. And it didn't seem like that was decreasing at a rate fast enough for his liking...


    Posted via CB10
    11-26-19 07:31 PM
  20. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    You're off by at least an order of magnitude, too low. I don't know if there's been an update but the prior quarter the CEO himself said there were still millions of users. And it didn't seem like that was decreasing at a rate fast enough for his liking...


    Posted via CB10
    We’re debating the accuracy of that statement and how it’s actually measured. I have 8 unique BB10 devices with 8 unique BB10 user IDs but am just one actual user. The best estimated total BB10 sales number is 12 million and sales ended in 2016 so millions is Big Hat No Cattle statement.
    11-26-19 07:38 PM
  21. conite's Avatar
    You're off by at least an order of magnitude, too low. I don't know if there's been an update but the prior quarter the CEO himself said there were still millions of users. And it didn't seem like that was decreasing at a rate fast enough for his liking...


    Posted via CB10
    I agree that the number of primary device users is close to 100k of each.

    There are probably more than a million active devices however.
    11-26-19 10:15 PM
  22. Digital_Islandboy's Avatar
    It is time to give up on BlackBerry. It died once it switched to Android because the companies that keep track of mobile metrics on the Internet keep track of what the web browser is reporting as the operating system it was running on. By the Black-doids not reporting as anything other than “Android” it makes BlackBerry completely invisible as a brand any more and brings its marketshare effectively to 0.0%
    11-27-19 01:21 AM
  23. conite's Avatar
    It is time to give up on BlackBerry. It died once it switched to Android because the companies that keep track of mobile metrics on the Internet keep track of what the web browser is reporting as the operating system it was running on. By the Black-doids not reporting as anything other than “Android” it makes BlackBerry completely invisible as a brand any more and brings its marketshare effectively to 0.0%
    So is Samsung dead too?
    11-27-19 02:53 AM
  24. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    I don't think we can settle the question of how many active users of BB10/BBOS still remain. I also think that the issue of primary devices vs. secondary devices is a red herring. It really doesn't matter whether a device is a "primary" or an "auxiliary" If it's needed.

    I know at least a dozen people in my network of several thousand still using BBOS as a work-issued device. 100% of them double carry, but that doesn't mean they don't still need their BlackBerries.

    Everyone is using different anecdotes to create a numerical model. If I used my data, I'd estimate that 1 in 600 users still use BBOS, and that 1 in 1500 use BB10. But that would translate to more than 4.5 million BBOS users and 1.8 million BB10 users. I that those numbers are very probably, but not conclusively, high.

    I am 90% confident that the number of active BBOS users is between 400,000 and 8 million, and that the number of active BB10 users is between 50,000 and 2.5 million.

    Beyond those estimates, I wouldn't hazard a guess.

    From the screen of my trusty Z10 using the exceptional BlackBerry VKB.
    bb9900user2018 likes this.
    11-27-19 07:46 AM
  25. bog4hire's Avatar
    Beginning of the End
    E-mail stopped working
    On my Q10 and Classic
    11-27-19 12:30 PM
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