[Kamika007z]

It was also created to compress data which isn't necessary anymore.

^ This.

It was designed to encrypt and compress data at an astonishing rate.

People would travel with only a 100MB plan for several weeks and just barely a quarter of it due to the incredible compression ratio it provided.

Though, it got slack from people on how slow it was when performing tasks such as browsing sites. They had to re-architecture it's compression methodologies by pretty much removing it to compete with the iPhone of the world.

[app_Developer]

^ This.

It was designed to encrypt and compress data at an astonishing rate.

People would travel with only a 100MB plan for several weeks and just barely a quarter of it due to the incredible compression ratio it provided.

Though, it got slack from people on how slow it was when performing tasks such as browsing sites. They had to re-architecture it's compression methodologies by pretty much removing it to compete with the iPhone of the world.

Those compression ratios were from a long time ago when most of the data coming to and from phones was plaintext.

Now most traffic is https and most content is pictures and videos. Even most email is TLS now. Further, web servers and CDN’s already compress what they can. So on the fly compression is totally useless with modern traffic.

Edit: sorry, I meant to say “on the fly compression”, not encryption. Both are useless things for a phone company to add on top of everything we do on the web already

[joeldf]

And, BIS was never actually encrypted. That's long been established. Compressed, but not encrypted.

BES did encryption.

[thurask]

And, BIS was never actually encrypted. That's long been established. Compressed, but not encrypted.

BES did encryption.

Exactly, if it was encrypted then stuff like this would be harder.

[SteinwayTransitCorp]

8000 a month, you are a little low. Probably more in the 125 to 150k. Hey maybe an online petition.............................LOL

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

And, BIS was never actually encrypted. That's long been established. Compressed, but not encrypted.

BES did encryption.

It was a little more but BES along with BESX was a great feature for small business... in the days of 2G anyway.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

8000 a month, you are a little low. Probably more in the 125 to 150k. Hey maybe an online petition.............................LOL

That was $8,000 a month per user with at least 10,000 users.... that would be enough.

Realistically I doubt you could get 10,000 people to pay $10 a month...

[Chuck Finley69]

That was $8,000 a month per user with at least 10,000 users.... that would be enough.

Realistically I doubt you could get 10,000 people to pay $10 a month...

BBMe will be a litmus test for BB10 payment support.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

BBMe will be a litmus test for BB10 payment support.

So when does the free year start?

[Emaderton3]

So when does the free year start?

Yeah exactly. Let's not be fooled that the massive increase will lead to sales just because the free version ended.

[Shadowbolt]

Those compression ratios were from a long time ago when most of the data coming to and from phones was plaintext.

Now most traffic is https and most content is pictures and videos. Even most email is TLS now. Further, web servers and CDN’s already compress what they can. So on the fly compression is totally useless with modern traffic.

Edit: sorry, I meant to say “on the fly compression”, not encryption. Both are useless things for a phone company to add on top of everything we do on the web already

Well now I feel like a right idiot for suggesting BIS development. I suppose if they did continue, they'd have to rework the system from the very core to allow encryption... oh well.

Now that you mention it, BIS compressed data like THAT? Honestly never knew - then again, with the tiny amount of storage available on classic BlackBerry devices, and the data plans available (and their prices) at the time, I suppose it made sense for the 2000s.
Not anymore, though, obviously. As many others also said, BIS was never encrypted... that I didn't know either. Just goes to show how oblivious I am to the whole thing.
Ignore me, I don't know anything-

[joeldf]

No worries. Even back in 2012, when the news came out that BB10 would not use BIS, there were many on these forums who bemoaned the loss, and the assumption that it was encrypted came up a lot.

[Shadowbolt]

No worries. Even back in 2012, when the news came out that BB10 would not use BIS, there were many on these forums who bemoaned the loss, and the assumption that it was encrypted came up a lot.

In the 2000s, I wouldn't have really expected BlackBerry to encrypt the data between phones and the BIS servers. Not sure why people moaned about it, because ANYTHING is better than BlackBerry Internet Service on phones that don't require extreme compression ratios (classic BlackBerry devices). It's only necessary on classic BlackBerrys because they made it so, I guess.

That's one of the main things that made me switch to a Classic - no more BIS! Not only is it expensive here (£6 monthly to O2) but yeah, those compression ratios and the encryption... no thanks. Not if I don't have to.

[app_Developer]

Well now I feel like a right idiot for suggesting BIS development. I suppose if they did continue, they'd have to rework the system from the very core to allow encryption... oh well.

Not an idiot; this just happens to be the world I've lived in for most of my career.

To be clear, I'm saying they should not worry about encryption at that level in a new "BIS".

In fact, I don't see any reason for a new BIS at all. The circumstances for which it was created doesn't exist anymore.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

In fact, I don't see any reason for a new BIS at all. The circumstances for which it was created doesn't exist anymore.

Saving me 25KB on my next email isn't going to do much for me when I'm streaming 2GB Videos.

I expect even in markets where data might still be a premium... BIS wouldn't accomplish very much. Do those people do a lot of emailing and sending of Office Documents?

Most are using a modern Messenger to communicate... that has compression factored in along with encryption so BIS compression wouldn't be a factor.

[Chuck Finley69]

No worries. Even back in 2012, when the news came out that BB10 would not use BIS, there were many on these forums who bemoaned the loss, and the assumption that it was encrypted came up a lot.

I admit to being that guy as late as 2015 when thurask or conite, maybe even you, stopped laughing at me long enough to explain.

[app_Developer]

Saving me 25KB on my next email isn't going to do much for me when I'm streaming 2GB Videos.

I expect even in markets where data might still be a premium... BIS wouldn't accomplish very much. Do those people do a lot of emailing and sending of Office Documents?

Most are using a modern Messenger to communicate... that has compression factored in along with encryption so BIS compression wouldn't be a factor.

If your email service is using TLS (who isn’t today??) then you won’t even save that 25kb either.

[turboron75]

I have an idea, it might be a good one or it might be a bad one. But here it is.
What if, we the BB10 users, bring back the full or partially support for BlackBerry as we used to know by paying a fee or a subscription and that money goes to bringing back to life the blackberry services like in the old days ( like when the bb10 was launched). ‎Let's try and offer a big support for the Canadian company to re-enable the full BB10 with updates, services and all that this platform should offer as it was intended to.
I'm in for 5 or 10 USD per month (or EUR). There are a lot of bb users who will embrace this idea and if only 40% out of that, let's say 1 mil users, will pay a subscription, theat will generate 40mil USD per month to keep the bb heart pumping for a long time to come. Who's with me. If this works we might see new BB10 devices.
Let get the crackberry support for this.
‎‎This should be a pride and joy for all blackberry users out there.

Posted via CB10

I am in agreement with you! I started off with RIM BlackBerry phones way back, an 8200 I believe was the first and many, many BlackBerrys in between. Then I went to Android and also tried iPhones but never liked iOS or Apple's business practices. I really don't like Google/Alphabet's censorship practices as of late either. There needs to be a third competitor and it would be great if BlackBerry could reinvigorate BB10. I have a few BB10 devices just gathering dust (Z10, Q10, Passport) that I would love to be able to use again. I don't like BlackBerry's Android phones. I had a Keyone (keyword being had). I'm currently using an Android phone but I love the BB10 phones because of the ease of access to the Hub, and the functionality of the Hub. It worked much better than the Android version. There were many features of BB10 that worked better than the Android versions. I am still contemplating using my Passport, even with more limited app selection than Android phones.

[glwerry]

To be honest, it isn't a bad idea. It just needs a LOT of money and support, not to mention it has to be executed in the right way.

I'd like to see BlackBerry return to supporting and developing BIS, and with the right resources, that could happen.

It'd just take a LOT of resources.

Sent from my BlackBerry 9780 using CrackBerry

Well, what would it accomplish?
For people like myself there would be no going back (I'm on a Key2 now).

The APPS that I need are not going to be solved by this sort of thing - highly unlikely that the banks are going to support another platform; Facebook, etc., are not going to; Google isn't going to - that right there drops out the major apps that I NEED (Facebook not so much).

SO, I would not be signing up.
Not to mention that the current BB10 hardware MIGHT BE INADEQUATE to run an updated version of the OS.

[i_plod_an_dr_void]

Yeah $50/year or thereabouts for consumer access to BBworld where all the security upate links would be hosted or any kind of OS improvement that might happen by would be awesome.

Wouldn't it be awesome to have the native browser selectively decide whether to load an image or video on user command , rather than automatically - like all old browsers used to do in the golden era before Google (page, site or session)? Wow that would rocket that browsers speed when the images aren't needed......alt-texting advertisers images for the blind should be sufficient for the advertisers. They were supposed to do that anyways.

[eshropshire]

People keep bringing this up ut with no explanation of who would take on the task of offering support. As already stated, BlackBerry Limited is out of the mobile business. BBL no longer has the resources or plans to get back in mobile. They have stated a willingness to license BB10. If those on this forum see this as a good business opportunity they should go for it and build a business around supporting BB10.

[turboron75]

Well, what would it accomplish?
For people like myself there would be no going back (I'm on a Key2 now).

The APPS that I need are not going to be solved by this sort of thing - highly unlikely that the banks are going to support another platform; Facebook, etc., are not going to; Google isn't going to - that right there drops out the major apps that I NEED (Facebook not so much).

SO, I would not be signing up.
Not to mention that the current BB10 hardware MIGHT BE INADEQUATE to run an updated version of the OS.

I'm not sure about the Key2, but I didn't like the Keyone at all. First of all, the first one I got was defective (The right hand most column of keys were dead). That wasn't a good start. It also felt awfully slow for a device with the specs that it had. I had an Android phone with lesser specs and only 2GB RAM. I loaded up all of the BlackBerry apps onto it and it was much faster. The Keyone frequently complained that it was low on resources for some reason. Another reason I would never go with another Android BlackBerry is because the quality is garbage compared to BB10 BlackBerry phones.

Why wouldn't developers support another platform? They did until BlackBerry imploded on itself and devs didn't want to support a dying architecture. There is a huge need for a third competitor in the smartphone market. I don't like Apple, and I'm beginning more and more to not like Google and their left wing practices (I am not a Trump supporter btw, but what they're doing right now is worse than what the Dems accused Russia of doing last election). What are my other options? I've always loved pre-Android BlackBerry devices. They were rock solid and almost indestructible. Why can't we go back to that? If there was enough interest, and BlackBerry noticed that there was enough interest, I think it would be a possibility. Instead of being negative, try to look at the positive. There are a ton of us that love our old BlackBerrys and BB10. If there's a chance that BB10 could be re-invigorated now that BlackBerry has bounced back, I'd love for it to happen. They're developing operating systems for cars, how hard would it be to bring BB10 back to life, or come out with a whole new BB11? I don't think that's far fetched.

[glwerry]

"Why wouldn't developers support another platform?"

COST.

There was a post quite a while ago from an application developer who said that his organization started out with one team for app development / support.
They quickly found that it was better to have TWO teams - one for IOS and a separate one for Android.

I put to you that you're going to have to build a VERY SUBSTANTIAL user base in order to convince the major app developers to build out for a third platform. In order to build that substantial user base you're going to have to offer these same significant apps.

Does that sound like it may present a problem?

"how hard would it be to bring BB10 back to life" - that has been debated at great length. Remember that BB spent BILLIONS of dollars on the BB10 hardware / software. Even if you take the hardware out of the equation it's still going to be a LARGE amount of money to re-work BB10 to run on modern hardware.

I just don't see where the money is going to come from.
The "open source" idea is extremely unlikely because there's propriety security code that BB isn't likely going to place in the public domain.

[Chuck Finley69]

I'm not sure about the Key2, but I didn't like the Keyone at all. First of all, the first one I got was defective (The right hand most column of keys were dead). That wasn't a good start. It also felt awfully slow for a device with the specs that it had. I had an Android phone with lesser specs and only 2GB RAM. I loaded up all of the BlackBerry apps onto it and it was much faster. The Keyone frequently complained that it was low on resources for some reason. Another reason I would never go with another Android BlackBerry is because the quality is garbage compared to BB10 BlackBerry phones.

Why wouldn't developers support another platform? They did until BlackBerry imploded on itself and devs didn't want to support a dying architecture. There is a huge need for a third competitor in the smartphone market. I don't like Apple, and I'm beginning more and more to not like Google and their left wing practices (I am not a Trump supporter btw, but what they're doing right now is worse than what the Dems accused Russia of doing last election). What are my other options? I've always loved pre-Android BlackBerry devices. They were rock solid and almost indestructible. Why can't we go back to that? If there was enough interest, and BlackBerry noticed that there was enough interest, I think it would be a possibility. Instead of being negative, try to look at the positive. There are a ton of us that love our old BlackBerrys and BB10. If there's a chance that BB10 could be re-invigorated now that BlackBerry has bounced back, I'd love for it to happen. They're developing operating systems for cars, how hard would it be to bring BB10 back to life, or come out with a whole new BB11? I don't think that's far fetched.

Where is the need for any third OS and if there was it would still be Windows since the resources already exist. If you believe there’s a need for a third OS, you’re saying that you’re smarter than Bill Gates is.

[eshropshire]

I'm not sure about the Key2, but I didn't like the Keyone at all. First of all, the first one I got was defective (The right hand most column of keys were dead). That wasn't a good start. It also felt awfully slow for a device with the specs that it had. I had an Android phone with lesser specs and only 2GB RAM. I loaded up all of the BlackBerry apps onto it and it was much faster. The Keyone frequently complained that it was low on resources for some reason. Another reason I would never go with another Android BlackBerry is because the quality is garbage compared to BB10 BlackBerry phones.

Why wouldn't developers support another platform? They did until BlackBerry imploded on itself and devs didn't want to support a dying architecture. There is a huge need for a third competitor in the smartphone market. I don't like Apple, and I'm beginning more and more to not like Google and their left wing practices (I am not a Trump supporter btw, but what they're doing right now is worse than what the Dems accused Russia of doing last election). What are my other options? I've always loved pre-Android BlackBerry devices. They were rock solid and almost indestructible. Why can't we go back to that? If there was enough interest, and BlackBerry noticed that there was enough interest, I think it would be a possibility. Instead of being negative, try to look at the positive. There are a ton of us that love our old BlackBerrys and BB10. If there's a chance that BB10 could be re-invigorated now that BlackBerry has bounced back, I'd love for it to happen. They're developing operating systems for cars, how hard would it be to bring BB10 back to life, or come out with a whole new BB11? I don't think that's far fetched.

As someone who runs a large software division in an enterprise software company I can safely say no to supporting another mobile OS. We now support Android and iOS. We did support BB10 until we came out with our next generation apps in 2016. We made the decision to drop BB10 after we were down to on enterprise customer left with BB10 in early 2016. We told them we would not move forward with any new BB10 development. I believe they were told around the same time by BlackBerry about their plans to leave the mobile phone business.

What would it take to get me interested in supporting another mobile platform? The platform would have to get at least 10% of the high end phone business. I don't care how many sub $200 phones they sell. Adding a new platform is expensive. Very few if any major developers are going to support a platform until them have achieved a large enough customer base to be profitable for developers. The same old chicken and the egg problem. General mainstream users are not going to start using a platform that is not supported by developers.