[Wigley458]

Just thought I would start a thread for a debate on whether or not OS leaks are good or bad for a COMPANY FIRST then consumer, BlackBerry specifically, but certainly not exclusively.

Just keep in mind. That BlackBerry tried extensively to get the US carriers to allow for BlackBerry to push updates and What people don't realize is BlackBerry tried to take a update model similar to the PlayBook where they can push Updates to everyone. However the carriers wanted none of that. And they are dependent on the carriers Unlike apple android. They also don't have a good rep with the issues in older os's.

The alternative to the release model is everyone waits for the US Carriers. Then everyone gets it world wide same time. And that wouldn't be good either. In fact. That would downright suck.

Maybe when BlackBerry gets bigger. They can push their weight around. To have the updates in their hands. And not in the hands of companies that feel the urgents need to push them to their customers in a timely matter.

So. Leaks have popped up. And good or bad. Have saved lots of people from headaches and pain of being stuck on their carriers outdated and not working platforms. Is that good? Well. From a company perspective. No. As this puts out to the competition what's in store and being worked in. And gives them a leg up and trying to put it out themselves. It also Kills the excitement of that new feature being put out there for when it actually does comes out officially.

Not to mention what blaze already did. That people don't understand or read for some reason and feel leaks are condoned and straight from BlackBerry then complain all over the Internet on how bad BlackBerry os is when it doesn't work properly. Or they themselves messed up the install and blame everyone else for such a bad OS.

Now for those techies. Like me. Who like to screw up their devices and test cause their bored with a working os lol. We love them. And don't want them to stop. And why we keep putting out what we test to be workable. Its just plain fun to do.

EDIT: is it a leak if it was released by one carrier already, And just not others? Or is it only considered a leak if it hasn't been given or released by a carrier like 10.2?

OK. Rant over Lmao.

Please join in with ur voice and lets debate the issue.

Z10STL100-3/10.2.0.93 & Posted from my awesome Z10 via cb10. My Channel pin http://channelpin.com/C000B3B57

[Wigley458]

And yes. I just realized I posted this to wrong area. Maybe a mod can move it for me please. Sorry.

Just not sure how to move while using phone cb10

Z10STL100-3/10.2.0.93 & Posted from my awesome Z10 via cb10. My Channel pin http://channelpin.com/C000B3B57

[Kris Simundson]

Moved to the proper forum :P

[Wigley458]

Thanks Kris. Oooops

Z10STL100-3/10.2.0.93 & Posted from my awesome Z10 via cb10. My Channel pin http://channelpin.com/C000B3B57

[Bla1ze]

I think they're both good and bad...

Good for those who can't update and realize that what they're using is an unfinished product that may fix some issues but also create others. But that's also the bad part, people get it in their heads that a leak SHOULD work tip top when really that's not the case at all. They see things broken or have issues and want to know why it's not working properly or they sit around and complain, blaming BlackBerry for things that were never meant for the public to begin with.

Plus, people assume a leak is the latest.. it's not. It very rarely is. Leaks are always behind and what you're complaining about being broken in a leak, has already been documented, noted and likely fixed. Instead, people take those issues to BlackBerry and complain about them, have folks like Michael Clewley responding to nonsense someone saw in a leak.

I won't even get into apps.. and the amount of reviews people leave on apps complaining how an app doesn't work on their BlackBerry 10.2 King Cobra Super Duper Hybrid v10.1.1.10.1.001.22223399947 Alpha-Beta-STL-10-000. Seriously, how the hell do you expect developers to even debug some OS that was baked off of 5 different OS'?

[saint613]

I would say bad, I get flamed here is why. First I love leaks, and they are great for the geeks who like to play and trek and hack or Crack or even brick and figure out how to un brick.


Sorry why are they bad, because people who don't know how to heed warnings try them and blame BlackBerry.

Posted via CB10

[Wigley458]

I think they're both good and bad...

Good for those who can't update and realize that what they're using is an unfinished product that may fix some issues but also create others. But that's also the bad part, people get it in their heads that a leak SHOULD work tip top when really that's not the case at all. They see things broken or have issues and want to know why it's not working properly or they sit around and complain, blaming BlackBerry for things that were never meant for the public to begin with.

Plus, people assume a leak is the latest.. it's not. It very rarely is. Leaks are always behind and what you're complaining about being broken in a leak, has already been documented, noted and likely fixed. Instead, people take those issues to BlackBerry and complain about them, have folks like Michael Clewley responding to nonsense someone saw in a leak.

I won't even get into apps.. and the amount of reviews people leave on apps complaining how an app doesn't work on their BlackBerry 10.2 King Cobra Super Duper Hybrid v10.1.1.10.1.001.22223399947 Alpha-Beta-STL-10-000. Seriously, how the hell do you expect developers to even debug some OS that was baked off of 5 different OS'?

Very well written and greats points. Hard not to agree fully. Thanks blaze

Z10STL100-3/10.2.0.93 & Posted from my awesome Z10 via cb10. My Channel pin http://channelpin.com/C000B3B57

[TheRatedR]

They are not bad. I'm on 10.2.0.98 on my z10 stl1003 and I think this is one of the better release of the 10.2 so far. For 10.1 I would try 10.1.0.2354 has been solid for me but I want to get on 10.2. I have tried 10.2.0.228 and dev 10.2.0.348 but had too many bugs.

Posted via CB10

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Good and Bad

Without leaks many users would still be enduring reboots from 10.0 OS and horrible battery life. If I hadn't installed a leak and gotten my battery life more in line with what should be expected... might have gone with a different device before my 30 days were up.

That said I've wasted a lot of time trying different combinations of OS and Radio and then having to reload Sideloaded Apps..

I REALLY - REALLY - REALLY wish that BBRY could test each OS in house, then do some Beta Testing with a select group of users on each carrier. And then release an Official OS to everyone AT THE SAME TIME.

[NetworkGuy]

I personally like using leaks as they tend to correct most of the problems that exist with the "certified" releases. However, in a business world, when my company pays for BBRY support for the phones and BDS server, you have to use the certified vendor releases to get support. I've even tried to use one of the leaks (i forget the build number) that was official in Romania and was told that because the build was not official with AT&T, I had to revert back before getting support. Now with AT&T pushing then pulling 10.1, my one business app still doesn't work and I can't get support since it still isn't the official AT&T version. I could write another paragraph on that crap, but that's for a different thread.

[georojas]

Bla1ze summed it up pretty well! always read the warnings, its called a Leaked or Hybrid for a reason! Either learn to live with it or don't use it.

[Wigley458]

Good points all. But one of the main ? 's asked in op was. Is this good or bad from a company perspective. Not just from customer perspective.

Z10STL100-3/10.2.0.93 & Posted from my awesome Z10 via cb10. My Channel pin http://channelpin.com/C000B3B57

[just_luc]

I'm also in the good and bad camp, for the reasons Bla1ze mentioned and also for the following 2

Good, because while yes a lot of issue that crop up in leaks have been noted and fixed, not all will be. No beta tester can put a device through every single real life scenario. Once that build gets out into the wild and people start using it as a daily driver, new issues are bound to be discovered. Rep's from BlackBerry do read these forums, and I'm sure changes are often made before an official release based in part of things that were read here. Some of that can be bugs, but it can also be just the reaction members had to a particular feature or how it was implemented.. maybe it works fine but people just don't like it. Going to learn a lot more about that on the forum then from internal beta testers working off a check list. - it SHOULD go without saying anyone choosing to install a Leak SHOULD be fully aware that a leak is not final software though, and should hold a tight line between voicing constructive criticism and complaining about BlackBerry and the quality of unreleased software.

And bad, in my opinion is its simply letting the competition know what's in new builds before they hit the open market. Apple has that one right. No leaks until they are on stage with a lot of fanfare saying to the world "look, we did it first, we are innovators"!! Where as I'm sorry to say, the way all BlackBerry's specs and new features leak out, by the time the product launches the competitors are months into adding the same features, and people are less wowed with the same features as they would have been if they were a surprise.

Posted via CB10

[papped]

Good points all. But one of the main ? 's asked in op was. Is this good or bad from a company perspective. Not just from customer perspective.

Bad. You are not really getting useful feedback from your users because:
1 - it's not organized/structured feedback.
2 - People don't know what they are or aren't supposed to be looking at, change wise.
3 - The builds are too old to matter.
4 - They aren't supposed to leak in the first place.

[Hamilton Guy]

On balance leaks are good in that they allow Z10 owners to move forward with the development of the OS even if their carrier is being extremely slow in releasing updates (Hello AT&T). However, as Bla1ze points out, these are often unfinished products and things, such as apps or even fairly core functionality, may not work. Don't blame BBRY and especially don't blame the poster of the leak if this happens.

Anybody getting into leaks has to assume responsibility for their actions. They are downloading and installing a version of the OS that is probably an improvement but there are no guarantees from anybody. If the leak doesn't work properly, certainly seek help on this forum, but do so in a positive fashion not whining or suggesting its someone's fault. If the collective wisdom of the group can't resolve the issue then cheerfully go back to your last fully functioning OS version, be it a previous leak or the last official version for your carrier.

[LP_Rigg]

They are good for the user who is willing to assume the risk; and they are good for BBRY as it gets beta/hybrid type OS in the field where we tear them apart and find the good, bad and down right ugly at times. All the while, at least the people smart enough to be on this site, know that it was not "officially" released by BBRY and should not attribute any negatives to them - imho.

[Lendo]

I like leaked OS's They give me something to do.

Posted via CB10 from my B@d@ss Z10

[Havoc65]

I think they're both good and bad...

Good for those who can't update and realize that what they're using is an unfinished product that may fix some issues but also create others. But that's also the bad part, people get it in their heads that a leak SHOULD work tip top when really that's not the case at all. They see things broken or have issues and want to know why it's not working properly or they sit around and complain, blaming BlackBerry for things that were never meant for the public to begin with.

Plus, people assume a leak is the latest.. it's not. It very rarely is. Leaks are always behind and what you're complaining about being broken in a leak, has already been documented, noted and likely fixed. Instead, people take those issues to BlackBerry and complain about them, have folks like Michael Clewley responding to nonsense someone saw in a leak.

I won't even get into apps.. and the amount of reviews people leave on apps complaining how an app doesn't work on their BlackBerry 10.2 King Cobra Super Duper Hybrid v10.1.1.10.1.001.22223399947 Alpha-Beta-STL-10-000. Seriously, how the hell do you expect developers to even debug some OS that was baked off of 5 different OS'?

100% agrees with this statement

Posted via CB10

[Luiserafim]

Great to me...
My carrier doesn't update.... so..

Posted via CB10

[Its Spade]

i like leaks, but to me when they become official.. it loses its spark... to me they are nothing new.. to people who have no idea about the leaks its the greatest thing since sliced bread...

[balenax]

I love leaks. One of the many things I love about my BlackBerry. Usually leaks brins new stuff to the table and improvements in the general os behaviour. Remember 9900, how bad was 7.0 comparing to the 7.1 and stuff. And this translates, for me, in a better relationship with my phone , and a better experience as a user. I didn;t jump on 10.2 leaks yet. I am waiting for a decent, complete one. Just got the new alarm clock, as I needed the multi alarm thingie. So, for me, they are great. Keep them coming

Sent from the Dark Side

[NickMcBride]

Good! Shows blackberry is doing something to help the customers even though they've released the os to carriers and they are taking their pretty time with bug testing.

Posted via CB10

[Pete The Penguin]

Potentially bad for the company if things go wrong.
For the customer, that depends on whom you're a customer of. Usually, you're customer of the carriers (unless buying factory unlocked).
If they don't release timely updates, leaks can be a good thing. If you use a leak not designed for your particular model, it's potentially bad.

End of the day, it's up to the individual to weigh up the pros and cons.

For me, a leak is beneficial if it adds, improves or fixes something.

Posted from the tap-dancing mouse

[Kris Simundson]

I think Bla1ze put it perfectly, I mean before I was tapped to be a leak tester before posting it to the forums, I jumped all over the 10.1 dev beta and first leak from it. I was excited to have something like my android nightlies. But that being said this is so far from nightlies it's not even funny. After all as open source as BlackBerry is trying to be, their core OS is not meant for open source. There are ups and downs, and to be honest, I'm glad the leaks have started to slow. I'm quite honestly tired of seeing apps get bad reviews because it doesn't work with 10.2! Like come on people, you complain about no instagram yet turn around and bash every dev out there because their app isn't working with the latest and greatest LEAK. This is why we have disclaimers in place. Companies won't want to develop for a platform where a member will give it a 1 star review because it doesn't work with a OS that's not due out for a few more months, and the developer kit just launched.

I understand the positive to leaks, it's amazing that we found the fix to the reboots through 2354 before BlackBerry even updated their KB. That's huge for a community, but again doesn't look good on a company, as it makes them look like they were slacking on a answer, when in reality they were trying to take every possible angle into consideration.

I think I've ranted on long enough, I could go on, however I won't.

Posted via my Q10 SQN100-1

[jonty12]

Good for practical reasons the same way beta testing is good. It's not just for the software developer, it's for the customer too. By downloading and installing all the 10.1 leaks on my Z and Q I new more than a month ago that my company was going to have serious mail issues on the Q10 and as soon as the U.S. carriers update the Z to 10.1. By knowing that in advance, we know to tell our people NOT to upgrade to 10.1 unless it's a build that we know works. By working directly with BlackBerry we've been able to test and verify a Z10 build for AT&T that works (later build than the latest leaks), but not yet for the other carriers. There is no Q10 build that we've tested yet that works properly, but BlackBerry assures us they know what they issue is and have corrected it - we just need to test it.

Bottom line is that because of leaks we have our staff currently holding off on buying Q10s and they've been told to NOT upgrade to 10.1 on their Z10s until the right build is released. It has saved us an enormous amount of time in eliminating complaints and has save BlackBerry an enormous amount of potential reputation damage.