[ssbtech]

The other point is that BIS provided an smtp relay. My mail is with my local ISP which I can only send outbound emails when I am directly connected to their network. So I not only am losing PUSH POP3 email via the best solution on the planet, BIS, I also will not longer be able to send emails without the awful [on behalf off] tacked onto the sender.

Ugh, I had forgotten about that. My ISP does this as well.

I didn't realize how good BIS was until I'm learning of all the features that it provides as they're going away.

iDroid users have been putting up with all this crap all along and still rant and rave about their mediocre messaging platforms?

[howarmat]

Ugh, I had forgotten about that. My ISP does this as well.

I didn't realize how good BIS was until I'm learning of all the features that it provides as they're going away.

iDroid users have been putting up with all this crap all along and still rant and rave about their mediocre messaging platforms?

Most people on iphones and androids probably use a well known email carrier (gmail, hotmail/outlook, etc) and not the ISP emails. I would agree the experience with BIS and ISP email providers is far above the experience on another OS.

[cgk]

So does this mean if I purchase a BB10 device, I can use BBM et al on my device using my T-Mobile Full Monty SIM that's designed for my Nokia Windows Phone?

Yes - at least that is what someone said on another thread - everything works with a BIS plan.

[cgk]

i agree with you here, and i have always said it, whatever the cost it saves you on your monthly bill. it is worth whatever few bucks a month i have to pay for it

Depends where you are - I have an unlimited data plan, 300 minutes and 5000 texts for �10 a month.

[BBJonbo]

Most people on iphones and androids probably use a well known email carrier (gmail, hotmail/outlook, etc) and not the ISP emails. I would agree the experience with BIS and ISP email providers is far above the experience on another OS.

I have been fortunate and was able to implement free POP3 email for unlimited users.

With my small company, I have 12 individuals with about 35 email addresses and I don't have to pay a cent for hosting POP3 email.

No doubt for personal email this is true and personally we don't use the ISP for personal email. We use it just for the SMTP relay services for our business.

Having BIS has allowed all of us to receive PUSH POP3 emails from this free hosted service as well send replies from our Blackberries all without anyone being the wiser.

I guess it is time to pay the piper and upgrade our mail services for the lot of us.

I count my blessings and the savings that BIS has given us for almost 9 years. It's the reason I have commented so feverishly on the loss of BIS.

To us, BIS really has been a blessing and a wonderful feature that made work life and communicating easier.

I guess I can take those savings suck it up and pay for Google Apps or the likes for the group.

Just pointing out that for many of us, BIS has been a god send and it truly will be missed for it's advanced POP3 email capabilities.

We will adapt and adjust and no doubt will get past this issue.

As far as how to deal with the considerable data increase while roaming that will be more difficult to address and to come to terms with. Either you pay the piper and accept your roaming costs are going to be higher and deal with it, or simply use WiFi only and not be as readily available.

I guess we will have to monitor and gauge the increase in costs and take it from there but no doubt the roaming costs will be considerably higher.

BIS is still there for BBM on BB10 but no POP3 PUSH email nor SMPT relay any longer.

Enough said and time to accept and adapt as BIS for POP3 PUSH email and SMTP relay is dead


R.I.P BIS, you were truly a unique offering that held you high above the rest and will be sadly missed by many switching to BB10.

[Daniel Ratcliffe]

There's no "BESx" for BB10.

They canned BlackBerry Enterprise Server Express? The free version for small businesses.

Yes - at least that is what someone said on another thread - everything works with a BIS plan.

I'm going to presume you meant everything works without a BIS plan as my Nokia Lumia's contract doesn't have BIS (naturally, given it's a Windows Phone!)

[GTiLeo]

I have unlimited SMS/MMS and e mail along with social messaging, 500mb data voice mail caller Id unlimited evenings and weekend 300 daytime minutes. For $54 a month canadian

[cgk]

I'm going to presume you meant everything works without a BIS plan as my Nokia Lumia's contract doesn't have BIS (naturally, given it's a Windows Phone!)

Opps! yes.

[qbnkelt]

Yah I just found out that BESX is gone too.

OK, I honestly believe BBRY is trying to off itself.

[GunzRx]

Listen guys, I think there's still data compression and there's still 'BIS' you just don't have to pay for it.

[Omnitech]

Australia is a 3rd word country? Since when??

I'm the original poster and we have unlimited data through BIS with a BlackBerry handset.

My apologies, perhaps I had you confused with the person who commented here that the elimination of BIS was going to be a big problem in 3rd-world countries.

[Omnitech]

Maybe they need to rebrand BIS to BlackBerry Cloud Services or something like that.

Reminds me of some recent Dilbert strips. Especially since BB recently dumped their "real" cloud service, re-branding BIS as "Blackberry Cloud Services" would be so Dilbert'esque.

[Omnitech]

The phone might not need it, but some users like myself do need it. I have a flat unlimited international plan. Which means no international data roaming. I used to make fun of my coworkers using iphones and android because they had to turn off their data while abroad.
Now I will have to do the same??? THAT REALLY SUCKS!

After spending time reading/posting in this thread I feel like I have come to 2 main conclusions:

1. Probably the absolute main reason Blackberry has the significant marketshare they currently do in non-wealthy countries is their free BIS data feature which distinguishes them from every other competitor, in places where data costs are a real burden for the average citizen there.
2. I'd be willing to bet that one of the main (or even top) reasons Blackberry got as much carrier buy-in to the BB10 launch that they did was because they dangled "no more free BIS" as a carrot to certain carriers.

I'll bet you most carriers in the non-wealthy countries, and perhaps even wealthy countries, consider traditional BIS to be a hugely costly service to provide, because in many cases it clearly takes away data revenue from the carriers. Blackberry offering to take away such a service would seem to be a strong motivator for carriers who I'd imagine are eager to get additional data revenues from such a change.

The fact that Blackberry hasn't been very public about the details of that change don't surprise me at all - as we can see in this thread, it has the potential to turn their userbase bitterly against them.

On the flip side, Blackberry in some ways really needed to make this change, because it has been a thorn in their side for a while now. No other mobile ecosystem has this "BIS Achilles Heel" where a glitch in your proprietary network can potentially knock millions of your customers around the world offline. (Let the carriers worry about network problems, just like with every other device, and not divert limited resources into network operations.)

[Omnitech]

Actually it was only pull on the client side. On the server side, Blackberry's POP clients bang on your provider's POP server every 2 minutes or so in order to send emails to clients relatively quickly. (I know this because I operate some of those servers)

That's my point. BIS on the server side did all the PULLing and only when it found mail it Pushed it to my phone. Now my phone has to do the pulling of POP3 mail accounts.

It would be very beneficial and helpful to everyone reading this thread if you could upload pictures of the settings within BB10 that allow me just to download headers and limit the size of attachments which BIS did for me for POP3. If they truly are there then this will be awesome and the email client obviously is far more advanced then the PB version.

I can't personally do that because there are no retail BB10 devices in the USA yet and I'm not a developer with a pre-launch device.

My point was that it is not a difficult challenge from a technical standpoint to accomplish pre-download filtering of POP3 or IMAP mailboxes. Whether those features are available in the BB10 default mail client I don't know yet.

If you are not from Canada, then you will not be privy to the horrendous roaming charges we pay not only abroad but also in the US.

The USA had this same problem with international roaming charges until the last few years or so when customer and political pressure forced some changes there. My understanding is that telecom charges in general often gets back to national balance-of-trade issues when ie telecom charges in one direction (ie incoming calls) are charged vastly different fees than telecom charges in the other direction. (ie outgoing calls)

When it comes to voice rates, this issue was addressed several years ago. In the data realm, US carriers are now moving more towards "fixed MB/GB plans" which customers like for their predictability, though the lighter users tend to subsidize the heavier users. But roaming data prices in general have trended downward as customers got increasingly angry over the high prices. But that requires cooperation on the other side: Verizon can't give me 1GB of international data for $10 if the carrier I'm using in the country I'm in is charging Verizon $200 for that data consumption.

The other point is that BIS provided an smtp relay. My mail is with my local ISP which I can only send outbound emails when I am directly connected to their network. So I not only am losing PUSH POP3 email via the best solution on the planet, BIS, I also will not longer be able to send emails without the awful [on behalf off] tacked onto the sender.

Honestly I think you need to get a better ISP. (One good option, if you want to just check out their services as an example of what's out there, is http://www.fastmail.fm)

Back in the days when ISPs didn't have the technology to authenticate SMTP sessions it was common to limit outgoing SMTP relay to source IPs on their own network, but SMTP AUTH pretty much eliminates that excuse, particularly if you are running that over an encrypted session where your credentials can't be stolen.

Also, perhaps somewhat ironically, many cellular carriers here used to offer SMTP relay hosts to their customers that needed to send email from mobile devices, but some of them discontinued those services as so many people stopped using traditional ISP POP services and migrated everything to webmail providers.

[Omnitech]

Re: BBJonbo's query about minimizing data usage using non-BIS email clients.

K-9 Mail is an open-source project that was forked from Google's original Android email client. I use it on my own Android tablet.

Apparently it's been ported to the Playbook, here's the BB World page at least for the US: BlackBerry World - K-9 Mail

I don't know which version of the K-9 code that is, but it looks pretty recent (December 2012), and under "supported devices" includes the Z10. (They use their own version numbering - in this case "1.0", rather than the K-9 version numbering. The version on my Android tablet says it's v4.200.)

K-9 Mail allows you to limit the size of retrieved content, so for example if you have that set to "32kb", and you have an email waiting on a POP server that includes a 10MB file attachment, you can check the headers and probably beginning of the body without having to download the entire 10+ MB message. You can then later choose to download the entire message if you want. If the entire message fits within 32kb, it will retrieve the entire message.

32kb is the smallest and default retrieval size, that's the setting I use for my POP accounts. It works well. It can also notify you of new mails without actually downloading any 32kb chunks. (Though I typically don't use the notification thing as I don't have my tablet on that often, I typically run the email client and then just shut it off when I'm done. If I were using it on a smartphone I'd imagine I'd want the notifications to be active most of the time.)

[kill_9]

hmm interesting. They are using a compression ratio of 10:1 for emails, i was thinking BB compression was around 4:1

Text email and HTML email excluding images has always achieved 90% compression which applied to BIS and BES data plans. With BlackBerry 10 data usage looks as though it will gobble through the data plans of most wireless carrier subscribers much faster resulting in extra data charges once the data cap is reached. In Canada there are no unlimited data plans yet the various carriers keep promoting use of smartphones and so-called superphones for streaming video and music. Imagine watching The Hobbit on the BlackBerry Z10...good-bye data cap and hello overage fees.

[kill_9]

Well then, this plan seems reasonable. Unlimited Data | Our New Unlimited Data Plan | T-Mobile One could dump their cable tv with this plan, run hdmi out to tv, etc.

Sadly, in Canada there is no T-Mobile and certainly no unlimited 4G data plans from any of the three major wireless carriers. I suddenly feel the urge to return to Texas.

[Daniel Ratcliffe]

Well then, this plan seems reasonable. Unlimited Data | Our New Unlimited Data Plan | T-Mobile One could dump their cable tv with this plan, run hdmi out to tv, etc.

I'll see your Unlimited Data Plan and raise you The One Plan. I used to be on this plan. About $45/mth - one month rolling contract. Tethering included.

Search Results

[kill_9]

Yah I just found out that BESX is gone too.

OK, I honestly believe BBRY is trying to off itself.

Yep. We are deploying BlackBerry Enterprise Service 10 on Microsoft Small Business Server 2012 (Microsoft Windows Server 2012 Essentials) which includes Microsoft Exchange 2010. This is not a BlackBerry supported configuration so we hope it will work since Microsoft Small Business Server 2012 is based upon Microsoft Windows Server 2008 which is supported. Don't get me started on the BlackBerry Bridge fiasco for BlackBerry OS 10. Could you dispatch a few hungry dragons to Waterloo, Ontario, Canada?

[decoy7]

Right now on t-mobile in the UK, when I travel abroad I can pay �15 for 30 days of unlimited data anywhere in the world thanks to BIS.

Now with the new BB10 they've done away with that and your only option is to buy a data bundle at standard roaming rate costs like iPhone or Android users have to.

I'm really struggling to see what the benefits of having the blackberry are now if moving to the new platform.

Do they plan on bringing out new handsets on the old platform?

For the past 6 months countless people I know with a 9900 have walked into the phone shop to upgrade and been shown the phone they've already got as the flagship device they can upgrade to, needless to say a **** of a lot of custom has been lost by Rim.

If you lose the core of what set you apart you lose your customers...especially when you offer nothing the competitors don't...that's where Rim are heading?

Without Bis what have they got?

[silversun10]

"Without Bis what have they got? "

what did BIS do for RIM, a 2% market share in the US, who is kidding who?

[mjolnirgs]

Imagine my pain:

I currently run my own e-mail server, and have it configured to push mail when it comes in, onward to the BB BIS servers, which then push it to my phone. True end to end push mail that I have been doing for 10 years now, on a very low budget. If I upgrade to BB10.. Gone.. I'll have to purchase Exchange or some other mail server like Zimbra that provides the active sync protocol, or pay for an online service (yuk) Major step backward for me. Major reason for me not to get BB10, or recommend it to family and friends either. Without these unique selling points that used to differentiate BB from iPhone and Android, I see no reason to go through all the pain of migrating all the content and apps, Since now BB10 is all just the same thing as iOS and Android. With a different look to it. on an average device.

Unless of course it will be possible to use BIS with BB10, in which case I will be a much more interested in upgrading.

[Real Estate Appraiser]

Can one still get BIS if they want?

[joeldf]

"Without Bis what have they got? "

what did BIS do for RIM, a 2% market share in the US, who is kidding who?

BIS had nothing to do with the decline of RIM in the U.S. It was invisible to most users as the carriers never passed on the cost to customers (I doubt a lot of users even knew it existed). BES is a different story - that extra cost was and is passed on.

[BBOttawa]

Imagine my pain:

I currently run my own e-mail server, and have it configured to push mail when it comes in, onward to the BB BIS servers, which then push it to my phone. True end to end push mail that I have been doing for 10 years now, on a very low budget. If I upgrade to BB10.. Gone.. I'll have to purchase Exchange or some other mail server like Zimbra that provides the active sync protocol, or pay for an online service (yuk) Major step backward for me. Major reason for me not to get BB10, or recommend it to family and friends either. Without these unique selling points that used to differentiate BB from iPhone and Android, I see no reason to go through all the pain of migrating all the content and apps, Since now BB10 is all just the same thing as iOS and Android. With a different look to it. on an average device.

Unless of course it will be possible to use BIS with BB10, in which case I will be a much more interested in upgrading.

Or just switch to using Outlook.com from Microsoft and get free push through Activesync. Or deal with waiting a few minutes to get an email. Or pay Google to get Activesync through them.