[qbnkelt]

I think if professionals are travelling internationally, they can just ping back to their BES server back in their home country correct? Or am I talking a load of nonsense and showing I am a moron when it comes to understanding BES? (Admittedly, I have never used BES, so that will have to be factored in!)

LOL!!!! You are NOT a moron!!! How have you been???? Missed you loads!!!

You might have professionals not on a BES service. small business owners might not have that option. Or a free lance contractor who travels internationally and receives loads of content on the go. I know of one such person right now who fits that description who is L I V I D about this change and I feel horrible for him. The advantage of data compression is something he dearly depended on.

[silversun10]

if BIS is that important, the good news is, only BB10 dropped it,
still available on the other phones, setting the stage for BB OS8...

[Chriz]

hmm interesting. They are using a compression ratio of 10:1 for emails, i was thinking BB compression was around 4:1

Maybe it is 4:1, but you dont pull the whole eMails complete from the Server with BIS. Only Headers were pushed. Then You decide. The calculator seems more to be a realistic usage of Data.

Sorry if this was answered before...not enough time to read all..

[Daniel Ratcliffe]

LOL!!!! You are NOT a moron!!! How have you been???? Missed you loads!!!

Well, that's one way to get called out! I've been fine, just camping out over at WPCentral more these days (I'm actually an Ambassador on their forums. Also, I'm in progress on developing a radio app for WP7/WP8), but yeah, it's been alright. Gonna be visiting CB a bit more nowadays as BB10 has definitely reinvigorated my interest in BlackBerry (I'm sorry, but OS7 did absolutely nothing for me). It does have a few hurdles in bringing me back. Namely: Financial, Parents (links to financial), and Integration (I have a heavy integration with the MS ecosystem so it can't be my only phone). As my profile shows, I'm now rocking a Nokia Lumia 920. Beasty phone by the way. How's things been over at CB with you?

You might have professionals not on a BES service. small business owners might not have that option. Or a free lance contractor who travels internationally and receives loads of content on the go. I know of one such person right now who fits that description who is L I V I D about this change and I feel horrible for him. The advantage of data compression is something he dearly depended on.

Again, at the risk of sounding na�ve (I'll avoid the word moron after the unbelievable calling out I got for it!), isn't there a BESx option available for them? Then again, I have to admit it can be a pain to set up. I never managed to figure out how to get BESx working (I was going to try and set up my own BESx using my desktop tower unit at home).

[MTL]

Why offer it if the phone is not going to use it. It has been said many many times that pre BB10 devices will continue to require BIS, BB10 requires NO BIS. If you need BIS, remain on your pre BB10 device.

The phone might not need it, but some users like myself do need it. I have a flat unlimited international plan. Which means no international data roaming. I used to make fun of my coworkers using iphones and android because they had to turn off their data while abroad.
Now I will have to do the same??? THAT REALLY SUCKS!

[MTL]

Unlike USA many users in Europe and RoW do travel internationally, or live close enough to a border so the phone hops onto a cross-border carrier's network. Looking at the examples cited for BIS -v- BB10 this is will eradicate the BB advantage for roaming users and make a massive financial killing for the networks. Rates equivalent to around $10/megabyte are not unusual for roaming data and many will see even higher charges. In Europe there is a mandatory cap on billing which can get roaming users disconnected until they arrange an exception (yup, listen the Hold music on roaming voice, because your data is shut down) or return home.

I live in the USA and travel abroad quite often. Everywhere. I never worried about international data roaming charges.
I know BB cannot please everybody but they shouldn't get rid of one of the biggest advantages they have.

[qbnkelt]

Well, that's one way to get called out! I've been fine, just camping out over at WPCentral more these days (I'm actually an Ambassador on their forums. Also, I'm in progress on developing a radio app for WP7/WP8), but yeah, it's been alright. Gonna be visiting CB a bit more nowadays as BB10 has definitely reinvigorated my interest in BlackBerry (I'm sorry, but OS7 did absolutely nothing for me). It does have a few hurdles in bringing me back. Namely: Financial, Parents (links to financial), and Integration (I have a heavy integration with the MS ecosystem so it can't be my only phone). As my profile shows, I'm now rocking a Nokia Lumia 920. Beasty phone by the way. How's things been over at CB with you?



Again, at the risk of sounding na�ve (I'll avoid the word moron after the unbelievable calling out I got for it!), isn't there a BESx option available for them? Then again, I have to admit it can be a pain to set up. I never managed to figure out how to get BESx working (I was going to try and set up my own BESx using my desktop tower unit at home).

I'm OK....getting flamed for using iPhones and Androids right and left and being told to leave CB by my most ardent fans, but I brush it off!!!
On the BESX, I'm not sure how that would play out for him. But that is a solution to a problem that should not be created. I'm not sure where his mind is on that. For me, it makes no sense to do that since my travel is not as frequent as his......but my point is that this is a loss that should not have happened. A customer should not have to go to BES in order to not have roaming where before BB10 it wasn't an issue.

Frankly I realise that I'm in the minority, but data compressions was a huge advantage for BB in my book.
In my hugely humble opinion.

[cgk]

I guess the logic goes like this - If are in the developed world and you need BIS, you aren't the customer profile they are looking for with BB10 at the moment, If you are a teenaged girl or a C2DE stick to cheap BB07 devices

Equally, while they aren't going out and saying it, I would think that in many emerging markets, they expect BB07 to be their most competitive options for a couple of years at least.


BB10 seems solidly placed as a way to try and win back premium customers paying premium prices - either to the care or outright purchase - we might see cheaper options in the future but at the moment, the aim is to increase ASP for the company and restore margins on hardware (which it partly has to do to offset the fact that there is no BIS revenue on those devices).

[CrackBerry Kevin]

BIS isn't killed off. It still plays a roll in BB10. Services like BBM, BBProtect, etc. all go through the BIS.

We're going to do another post further clarifying the roll of BIS in BB10. the big thing is that you don't need a special data plan now to use BB services... but the architecture is still being put to use in a big way.

Maybe they need to rebrand BIS to BlackBerry Cloud Services or something like that.

[ffejrobins30]

BIS isn't killed off. It still plays a roll in BB10. Services like BBM, BBProtect, etc. all go through the BIS.

We're going to do another post further clarifying the roll of BIS in BB10. the big thing is that you don't need a special data plan now to use BB services... but the architecture is still being put to use in a big way.

Maybe they need to rebrand BIS to BlackBerry Cloud Services or something like that.

This is exactly what they should do!

[cgk]

BIS isn't killed off. It still plays a roll in BB10. Services like BBM, BBProtect, etc. all go through the BIS.

We're going to do another post further clarifying the roll of BIS in BB10. the big thing is that you don't need a special data plan now to use BB services... but the architecture is still being put to use in a big way.

Maybe they need to rebrand BIS to BlackBerry Cloud Services or something like that.

So you are having to post a clarification post to a post that explain what was happening with BIS? Sounds like Blackberry made a hash of explaining this change.

[GTiLeo]

BIS isn't killed off. It still plays a roll in BB10. Services like BBM, BBProtect, etc. all go through the BIS.

We're going to do another post further clarifying the roll of BIS in BB10. the big thing is that you don't need a special data plan now to use BB services... but the architecture is still being put to use in a big way.

Maybe they need to rebrand BIS to BlackBerry Cloud Services or something like that.

i thought so we know there was goign to be tiering of BIS would this mean if you are currently using a BIS plan and want to keep it that all the legacy BIS features will still be around for one the push e mail service and data compression or are these features dead

[GTiLeo]

So you are having to post a clarification post to a post that explain what was happening with BIS? Sounds like Blackberry made a hash of explaining this change.

don't think so Thorsten did say that they would have a tiered BIS for those that wanted it or those that don't want all the features, alot of people have jumped to a conclusion about this, i mailed kevin and bla1ze abotu further clarification on the whole BIS thing as i have known abotu the tiering and seen the BIS icon on crackberry blogs, i was just unsure if Kevin got my message as it did not give me a notification that it was delivered

[smithjohn57]

I can't belive the lack of information on the role of BIS going forward. I personally want to know if it will have any role in email, particularly POP3 push.

[GTiLeo]

I can't belive the lack of information on the role of BIS going forward. I personally want to know if it will have any role in email, particularly POP3 push.

i would think that BIS should be explained by your carrier as they are the ones doign the charging and pay BlackBerry the fees on our account, i would think they should be the once explaining how BIS is goign to effect BB users and what levels they want, my carrier Rogers did no such thing for any of my BB plan for any of my BB devices i was unaware of these untill i joined the crackberry community

[Daniel Ratcliffe]

BIS isn't killed off. It still plays a roll in BB10. Services like BBM, BBProtect, etc. all go through the BIS.

We're going to do another post further clarifying the roll of BIS in BB10. the big thing is that you don't need a special data plan now to use BB services... but the architecture is still being put to use in a big way.

Maybe they need to rebrand BIS to BlackBerry Cloud Services or something like that.

So does this mean if I purchase a BB10 device, I can use BBM et al on my device using my T-Mobile Full Monty SIM that's designed for my Nokia Windows Phone?

[Tim Maclennan]

I've spent hours on the phone with Vodafone, Support Tickets with Streamline.net and contacted RIM/BlackBerry about 2 email accounts I can't get unless I go on a BIS tarrif which is going to cost me an extra �15/month. This really needs to be cleared up. I am now contemplating adding the Exchange 2010 on my Streamline.net doman teknikaltim.co.uk to see if that will work? At least I can use google's email forwarding for the time being but this is really frustrating.

[Chriz]

BIS isn't killed off. It still plays a roll in BB10. Services like BBM, BBProtect, etc. all go through the BIS.

We're going to do another post further clarifying the roll of BIS in BB10. the big thing is that you don't need a special data plan now to use BB services... but the architecture is still being put to use in a big way.

Maybe they need to rebrand BIS to BlackBerry Cloud Services or something like that.

Thanks Kevin. Cant wait to hear how BIS works now. And pls tell us, what we loose with the new BIS in BB10 too.

[ssbtech]

It was an absolutely necessary decision
BIS makes you depend on BB servers, make your phone not working out of the box for multimedia if you don't have BIS
For non pro consumers , it brings more problems than it solves

IMO, BIS features outweigh whatever drawbacks they come with.

[ssbtech]

Again, at the risk of sounding na�ve (I'll avoid the word moron after the unbelievable calling out I got for it!), isn't there a BESx option available for them? Then again, I have to admit it can be a pain to set up. I never managed to figure out how to get BESx working (I was going to try and set up my own BESx using my desktop tower unit at home).

There's no "BESx" for BB10.

[ReigerZA]

I was looking so much forward to BB10 but now I'm extremely disappointed over this move. The only reason why Blackberry is doing so great in developing countries like South Africa is because of a service like BIS against INSANE data prices. I'm sorry to say but without unlimited BIS Blackberry (10) is going to have NOTHING over other phones. Killing of the unlimited BIS service for BB10 is going to be the downfall of Blackberry.

I can understand that LTE is going to make phones much more data intensive and an unlimited data plan is going to put a lot of strain on a network. I hope that there is decent data managing apps available for BB10.

I would even suggest and settle for something like this:

- Services running from unlimited BIS, even if throttled at normal 3G speeds: unlimited email, bbm text, facebook, twitter, whatsapp, linkedin, on device browsing, etc.
- Services running from normal data costs over LTE speeds: bbm video and data calls, music and video streaming, downloads and uploads, etc.

But I�m still waiting to hear what our offerings are going to be, if not worthwile I will be going to Android.

Oh and hi Crackberry. Have been following the boards for a while now and sorry my first post is a rant. It�s just that I�m very sad over this move

[ssbtech]

i thought so we know there was goign to be tiering of BIS would this mean if you are currently using a BIS plan and want to keep it that all the legacy BIS features will still be around for one the push e mail service and data compression or are these features dead

Some form of tiered BIS would have been great. Users who want it could have it, users who don't (unknown why they wouldn't) can leave it.

[BBJonbo]

[QUOTE=Omnitech;7925696]Actually it was only pull on the client side. On the server side, Blackberry's POP clients bang on your provider's POP server every 2 minutes or so in order to send emails to clients relatively quickly. (I know this because I operate some of those servers)

That's my point. BIS on the server side did all the PULLing and only when it found mail it Pushed it to my phone. Now my phone has to do the pulling of POP3 mail accounts.

It would be very beneficial and helpful to everyone reading this thread if you could upload pictures of the settings within BB10 that allow me just to download headers and limit the size of attachments which BIS did for me for POP3. If they truly are there then this will be awesome and the email client obviously is far more advanced then the PB version.

I definitely would like to learn more ways to limit and control POP3 emails being sent to BB10 as well how to implement it as PUSH vs PULL. For me, PULL is not an option as again it would be a real killer on the pocket book while roaming. If you are not from Canada, then you will not be privy to the horrendous roaming charges we pay not only abroad but also in the US. Our roaming charges while out of country is higher then most 3rd world countries local plans. I have many friends from the US that pay $60 a month for unlimited text, email and voice minutes in North America. Unfortunately, the Canadian carriers gouge us and $50 barely gets you any coverage.

We are worse off in Canada with our roaming charges than many 3rd world countries so YES I take exception to losing BIS.

The other point is that BIS provided an smtp relay. My mail is with my local ISP which I can only send outbound emails when I am directly connected to their network. So I not only am losing PUSH POP3 email via the best solution on the planet, BIS, I also will not longer be able to send emails without the awful [on behalf off] tacked onto the sender.

I am sure for you losing BIS is no loss but you will have to trust me and accept the fact that for many it is in fact a huge loss and a big fall down to be on the same lower playing field as the competition. For many of use, the loss of a valuable feature may be the tipping point.

I fully appreciate and accept that for you this is not the case.

[BBJonbo]

It was an absolutely necessary decision
BIS makes you depend on BB servers, make your phone not working out of the box for multimedia if you don't have BIS
For non pro consumers , it brings more problems than it solves

Many consumers around the world would have to pay for BIS

BB gives the choice with BB balance and BES 10
Keeping BIS would have killed BB



Envoy� depuis mon GT-I9300 avec Tapatalk

So why couldn't they have come up with a solution that didn't require BIS for those who didn't want it nor needed it but kept it for those that did.

Why abandon your loyal customers and drop some of the most competitive feature that made you the best.

I understand having to compete with the prosumer and making it as easy and painless as the completion.

What I don't understand is why you couldn't accomplish both.

[GTiLeo]

IMO, BIS features outweigh whatever drawbacks they come with.

i agree with you here, and i have always said it, whatever the cost it saves you on your monthly bill. it is worth whatever few bucks a month i have to pay for it