06-06-15 07:38 AM
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  1. TheoRadu's Avatar
    Yes. They are apps in the app store. Flash isn't on the iphone so calling them flash games is misleading. Some may use air, but I'm mot sure how many.

    Flash performance issues have been widely known since 2010. There is too much info to dump in this thread and I don't really give much credence to synthetic benchmarks because they are what they are.

    Google for the relevant info. Its there and the fact that I don't want to fumble around on a phone to copy and paste links doesn't change that.

    That performance benchmark doesn't address multiple things that affect power usage in mobile devices...

    Microsofts Windows RT/Metro runtime works similar to air yet makes much better use of resources. An air app will never be as performance as a Windows Phone 8 app on hardware like the L520... Why is that?

    We already see how poor flash and air apps perform compared to native and metro apps on desktops with much superior hardware to mobile devices, and we see their excessive memory and CPU usage there as well. Flash has improve a bit with hardware acceleration, but so have browsers.

    The benchmark you linked is from 2010. 3 years and 10 months ago, almost... it's mot useful. Browsers have improved a lot more than mobile flash has. Flash for mobile isn't even in development anymore. Only maintenance mode. Link something more relevant.

    JavaScript and Engines in browsers have improved exponentially over the past 4 years. This is like linking an IE8 benchmark and saying its a slow browser. That benchmark is objectively worthless.

    You do realize almost no browsers were hardware accelerated back then, for example?

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
    Yes, the benchmark is from 3 years ago. Your point? I didn't tell you to run the benchmark in an old browser.

    Posted via CB10
    01-03-14 01:17 PM
  2. n8ter#AC's Avatar
    I just gave you an example of an Adobe Air iOS game with 80k+ positive reviews. Try it! It looks just like a native game. And before you say anything, it is a Flash game. The developer says so on his website: http://julianfrost.co.nz/things/dumb-ways-to-die-game/

    Flash is more powerful than you think. I'm not saying it's faster than native code, but it is definitely faster than HTML 5 and JavaScript.

    And regarding battery life, I watch many Flash videos in a day on my BlackBerry Q10 and I've never had any issues.

    Posted via CB10
    You'd have to compare to HTML5. Its all comparative.

    I don't play any games on my devices and I'm not downloading any AIR apps on my device either. On Android it requires a runtime install (iOS developers embed the runtime, I think).

    Canvas has been outperforming Flash since IE added hardware acceleration, BTW :-)

    The only semi have for flash is audio and video. HTML5 is better for both and any website worth its salt is compatible with iphone and android browsers (safari and chrome).

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
    01-03-14 01:17 PM
  3. n8ter#AC's Avatar
    Yes, the benchmark is from 3 years ago. Your point?

    Posted via CB10
    Its clearly worthless. Thats the fact of that matter.

    Its basically 4 years. Not just 3.

    Its an IE8 era benchmark... before any major browsers (except maybe safari?) Had hardware acceleration implemented.

    The Galaxy S wasn't even on the market. Nor the iPhone 4. Not any OS7 devices.

    Yes. If you wanted hardware accelerated graphics back then flash was necessary. Its why it gained such prominence as a plugin. Because it provided that.

    Why are you linking worthless benchmarks?

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
    01-03-14 01:18 PM
  4. waterfrontmgmt's Avatar
    It really doesn't matter to the end user which is better...your phone just needs the ability to access flash. it's not complicated.

    Posted via CB10
    01-03-14 01:21 PM
  5. TheoRadu's Avatar
    Its clearly worthless. Thats the fact of that matter.

    Its basically 4 years. Not just 3.

    Its an IE8 era benchmark...

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
    You don't seem to understand what hardware acceleration is. You don't have to change your code to use it. The browser will automatically use it.

    Posted via CB10
    01-03-14 01:23 PM
  6. n8ter#AC's Avatar
    It really doesn't matter to the end user which is better...your phone just needs the ability to access flash. it's not complicated.

    Posted via CB10
    Your phone. Not everyone's.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
    01-03-14 01:24 PM
  7. n8ter#AC's Avatar
    You don't seem to understand what hardware acceleration is. You don't have to change your code to use it. The browser will automatically use it.

    Posted via CB10
    It didnt exist back then in those browsers.

    Why can't you understand that?

    IE didn't have that until version 9. FF around a similar time frame (maybe even a little before). Chrome and Opera were after those.

    You don't automatically gain this. Browser engines and JavaScript engines had to be engineered to do that.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
    01-03-14 01:24 PM
  8. TheoRadu's Avatar
    It didnt exist back then in those browsers.

    Why can't you understand that?

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
    I know that, but I don't understand why it's relevant. I didn't ask you to read the results from 4 years ago, I'm not an *****. Run the benchmarks on your modern browser now and you will realise that Flash is still more powerful than Canvas.

    Posted via CB10
    01-03-14 01:27 PM
  9. n8ter#AC's Avatar
    I have seen benchmarks that said otherwise. And, for a lot more than just Canvas.

    You picked then first search result seen it looked good for you and linked it here. I just ran the search and see that. Limit the date range of your search results. It helps avoid old useless material.

    Also my system is inappropriiate for synthetic benchmarks since it doesn't have anything resembling a set-up for it. Have someone else do that.

    Thread was derailed. Lets give the other posters room to discuss other things. PM me if you want to discuss further.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
    01-03-14 01:33 PM
  10. TheoRadu's Avatar
    I have seen benchmarks that said otherwise. And, for a lot more than just Canvas.

    You picked then first search result seen it looked good for you and linked it here. I just ran the search and see that.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
    I honestly haven't seen any that say Canvas or SVG are faster than Flash. It would be great if you could send me a link or something.

    Did you try that game on your iPhone/iPad yet?

    I used to be an ActionScript developer and then I moved on. I am aware of the limitations of Flash (I actually prefer JavaScript and HTML 5 now), but performance isn't one of them. I don't understand why people (like you) prefer to just jump on the "Flash sucks" bandwagon without even opening Flash Builder or running a simple benchmark.

    Posted via CB10
    01-03-14 01:45 PM
  11. n8ter#AC's Avatar
    I honestly haven't seen any that say Canvas or SVG are faster than Flash. It would be great if you could send me a link or something.

    Did you try that game on your iPhone/iPad yet?

    I used to be an ActionScript developer and then I moved on. I am aware of the limitations of Flash (I actually prefer JavaScript and HTML 5 now), but performance isn't one of them. I don't understand why people (like you) prefer to just jump on the "Flash sucks" bandwagon without even opening Flash Builder or running a simple benchmark.

    Posted via CB10
    Performance is more than synthetic benchmarks. You seem to have continuously ignored that simple fact in your attempt to defend flash.
    Apple didn't reject flash because it was slow. PMs please now.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
    01-03-14 01:46 PM
  12. TheoRadu's Avatar
    Thread was derailed. Lets give the other posters room to discuss other things. PM me if you want to discuss further.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
    Yeah, I agree.

    Posted via CB10
    01-03-14 01:46 PM
  13. waterfrontmgmt's Avatar
    Regardless, there are still lots of flash web sites out there. Any phone that can't access them is at a disadvantage.
    Performance is more than synthetic benchmarks. You seem to have continuously ignored that simple fact in your attempt to defend flash.
    Apple didn't reject flash because it was slow. PMs please now.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk


    Posted via CB10
    01-03-14 01:50 PM
  14. TheoRadu's Avatar
    Performance is more than synthetic benchmarks. You seem to have continuously ignored that simple fact in your attempt to defend flash.
    Apple didn't reject flash because it was slow. PMs please now.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
    Which is why I asked you to try Dumb Ways to Die on your phone/tablet and see for yourself.

    Anyway, I'm out. Good chat.

    Posted via CB10
    01-03-14 01:55 PM
  15. n8ter#AC's Avatar
    Which is why I asked you to try Dumb Ways to Die on your phone/tablet and see for yourself.

    Anyway, I'm out. Good chat.

    Posted via CB10
    I'd need two versions of the same game to make a comparison. And no developer does that. I can't compare battery drain and CPU use in that fame with Angry Birds. Its allies and oranges.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
    01-03-14 01:58 PM
  16. n8ter#AC's Avatar
    Regardless, there are still lots of flash web sites out there. Any phone that can't access them is at a disadvantage.




    Posted via CB10
    You can say that about tons of apps not on BB10.

    Most people didn't care about Flash. How many tech blogs reported user outrage when FW updates removed it from people's phones?

    Flash was big in 2010 because Flash was still to mobile videobwhat Blackberry was to smartphones back then.

    Things changed. Its simply not a factor anymore.

    Great, you have flash. +1 for blackberry.

    There are iOS and Android browsers that can play flash video anyways, but that wasn't the focus of the discussion we were having.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
    01-03-14 02:01 PM
  17. waterfrontmgmt's Avatar
    The "focus" of your argument was irrelevant to the thread topic.

    Be that as it may. The iPhone fails on Falsh. Switching apps is slow compared to BB10. Calendar integration is bad on the iPhone.

    The iPhone is a great entertainment device. That's about it.

    Posted via CB10
    01-03-14 02:10 PM
  18. Alex Keb's Avatar
    I hate flash, I want it to die. At first I was indifferent but now I just plain out hate it.

    Buggy, slow and insecure. Another crap to constantly upgrade.

    Universal standards is the best way to go!

    Posted via CB10
    01-03-14 02:41 PM
  19. TheoRadu's Avatar
    A few other cool/useful features (I don't believe they were mentioned): Internet Tethering, Parental Controls, Default apps, Device/Card Encryption, App Manager, setting songs as ringtones and FM radio.

    Posted via CB10
    01-03-14 02:45 PM
  20. TheoRadu's Avatar
    I hate flash, I want it to die. At first I was indifferent but now I just plain out hate it.

    Buggy, slow and insecure. Another crap to constantly upgrade.

    Universal standards is the best way to go!

    Posted via CB10
    You starting this again

    Posted via CB10
    01-03-14 02:45 PM
  21. slagman5's Avatar
    Wow, who to believe, someone who provides a link to an actual benchmark or someone when pressed to give proof simply says "it is known."

    Man, this is such a tough decision...

    It's so weird that one cannot even provide anecdotal evidence when it is such a "widely known fact." Examples should be easy to come by then wouldn't it?

    Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10
    01-03-14 02:57 PM
  22. GadgetTravel's Avatar
    The "focus" of your argument was irrelevant to the thread topic.

    Be that as it may. The iPhone fails on Falsh. Switching apps is slow compared to BB10. Calendar integration is bad on the iPhone.

    The iPhone is a great entertainment device. That's about it.

    Posted via CB10
    Again, I hate to sound like a broken record but the iPhone is vastly better than a BB as a mobile computing device. There are some particular uses where the BB is good for exactly what you do, which is great and shows the real benefit to the community of diversity in devices. But for many other things requiring an ecosystem and software BB is out of the picture at this point I think and I don't see any way they can compete on mobile computing with Apple, Google and Microsoft. Those guys drip companies the size of BB out of their development programs.
    01-03-14 05:07 PM
  23. waterfrontmgmt's Avatar
    So you are saying BlackBerry is like Mercedes? Good point!

    Actually, I agree. The iPhone is a better mobile computing device.

    BlackBerry is a better communication device.

    Posted via CB10
    01-03-14 05:29 PM
  24. carrollmikej's Avatar
    So you are saying BlackBerry is like Mercedes? Good point!

    Actually, I agree. The iPhone is a better mobile computing device.

    BlackBerry is a better communication device.

    Posted via CB10
    And I third that.

    Posted via CB10
    waterfrontmgmt likes this.
    01-03-14 05:43 PM
  25. carrollmikej's Avatar
    And I should add that I feel lucky that I don't have to choose.

    Posted via CB10
    01-03-14 05:48 PM
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