06-06-15 08:38 AM
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  1. that_maynard's Avatar
    From the email app? I doubt it...

    Posted via CB10
    Wow, that is why I love the CB forums.... I thought I could send WITHIN the compose email, but I can send with an attachment if I were surfing the Internet and wanted to copy and paste.

    Honestly, thank you for the correction.

    Via my Q
    01-01-14 09:02 AM
  2. TheoRadu's Avatar
    Wow, that is why I love the CB forums.... I thought I could send WITHIN the compose email, but I can send with an attachment if I were surfing the Internet and wanted to copy and paste.

    Honestly, thank you for the correction.

    Via my Q
    Glad I could help

    Posted via CB10
    01-01-14 09:57 AM
  3. Alex Keb's Avatar
    Honestly, go to an Android forum if you want to see people hostile toward other platforms. Sometimes I feel like BB and iPhone are religions and Android are atheists. Their whole purpose in life is to make sure BB and iPhones users know how wrong they are...

    Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10
    Speak for yourself. I have no spiritual enlightment from plastic and circuitry.

    I have tried all the platforms and it really depends on your budget, needs and availability.

    I switched back to BlackBerry 10 from Nexus 4 but doesn't mean I won't switch again in the future.

    Posted via CB10
    01-01-14 11:04 AM
  4. slagman5's Avatar
    Speak for yourself. I have no spiritual enlightment from plastic and circuitry.

    I have tried all the platforms and it really depends on your budget, needs and availability.

    I switched back to BlackBerry 10 from Nexus 4 but doesn't mean I won't switch again in the future.

    Posted via CB10
    Um, someone needs to look up the word "metaphor."

    Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10
    01-01-14 02:09 PM
  5. reeneebob's Avatar
    Honestly, go to an Android forum if you want to see people hostile toward other platforms. Sometimes I feel like BB and iPhone are religions and Android are atheists. Their whole purpose in life is to make sure BB and iPhones users know how wrong they are...

    Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10
    I've actually stopped visiting android central due to the over the top hostility towards users of other platforms, not to mention attacking each other in manufacturer wars. It's so unwelcoming there, I don't dare post from an iDevice, thankfully my company supplied phone is an Optimus G I could use. Although I HATE that phone. It's such crap, the glass on the back cracked from the temperature change taking it out of my loose fitting dress pants pocket. I owned an iPhone 4 for years and dropped it in and out of cases and the back and front glass were perfect. No excuse for that, LG.

    I had to look up some information this week due to two customers Galaxy S 4's catching fire while charging (turns out, frighteningly happening more often that you'd think), and it only drove home how bad AC has gotten.

    Talk about a snake pit.

    However, one thing about the atheist thing, I am one, I'm so anti organized religion it's not funny, but I don't try to tell people they are wrong for their religion. So not all atheists are like that.


    Sent from my iPad Air using Tapatalk HD
    01-01-14 03:02 PM
  6. slagman5's Avatar
    I've actually stopped visiting android central due to the over the top hostility towards users of other platforms, not to mention attacking each other in manufacturer wars. It's so unwelcoming there, I don't dare post from an iDevice, thankfully my company supplied phone is an Optimus G I could use. Although I HATE that phone. It's such crap, the glass on the back cracked from the temperature change taking it out of my loose fitting dress pants pocket. I owned an iPhone 4 for years and dropped it in and out of cases and the back and front glass were perfect. No excuse for that, LG.

    I had to look up some information this week due to two customers Galaxy S 4's catching fire while charging (turns out, frighteningly happening more often that you'd think), and it only drove home how bad AC has gotten.

    Talk about a snake pit.

    However, one thing about the atheist thing, I am one, I'm so anti organized religion it's not funny, but I don't try to tell people they are wrong for their religion. So not all atheists are like that.


    Sent from my iPad Air using Tapatalk HD
    Hey, sorry if I made it sound like all atheists or all Android users are like that. I just meant the vocal/combative ones. They are the ones you notice on the forums and on facebook and what-not...

    Edit: I'm not religious myself, agnostic here.

    Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10
    reeneebob likes this.
    01-01-14 04:20 PM
  7. n8ter#AC's Avatar
    I love the Flash mentions. Sounds like Lazaridis really sold the full browser experience stuff to some people.

    Android had Flash supports from 2.2 to 4.0.4

    Flash was dropped because it is terrible on mobile. Microsoft updates flash themselves but even they restricted it largely to the desktop browser in Windows 8 for several months before unlocking it.

    I enjoyed flash on my Android phone for about a day before I turned plugins off.

    Most sites media are compatible with apple devices, so unless your browser is worthless flash is barely necessary, if at all...

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
    01-02-14 01:44 AM
  8. slagman5's Avatar
    I love the Flash mentions. Sounds like Lazaridis really sold the full browser experience stuff to some people.

    Android had Flash supports from 2.2 to 4.0.4

    Flash was dropped because it is terrible on mobile. Microsoft updates flash themselves but even they restricted it largely to the desktop browser in Windows 8 for several months before unlocking it.

    I enjoyed flash on my Android phone for about a day before I turned plugins off.

    Most sites media are compatible with apple devices, so unless your browser is worthless flash is barely necessary, if at all...

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
    Yah, having the option to have it or not is such a horrible thing... I love when it is argued that just because it CAN be a bad thing that it's better for a phone to just not have the option at all. Like when someone talks about the notification LED. Some Androids have it and all BB's have it, but iphone fanboys will argue about how annoying they find it so they are glad their phone doesn't have it... You can turn that feature off on the phones that do have it, but at least the option is there... Same thing with Flash support. I like having the option, thanks...

    Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10
    Vorkosigan likes this.
    01-02-14 03:05 AM
  9. n8ter#AC's Avatar
    Yah, having the option to have it or not is such a horrible thing... I love when it is argued that just because it CAN be a bad thing that it's better for a phone to just not have the option at all. Like when someone talks about the notification LED. Some Androids have it and all BB's have it, but iphone fanboys will argue about how annoying they find it so they are glad their phone doesn't have it... You can turn that feature off on the phones that do have it, but at least the option is there... Same thing with Flash support. I like having the option, thanks...

    Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10
    The option was there on Android. Flash performs badly and increases attack surface.

    Not many people miss it as many sites either have apps or have moved to HTML5.

    Again... Option existed. Not the point. Point is its not some killer feature. At least not in the way that word is being used here.

    Flash is dead on mobile.

    Almost all android flagship have a notification LED now. I don't tend to notice mine. My phone has smart alert and that's how I am notified. I pick the phone up and it gives a short vibration. I find the light useful but not a deal breaker if its omitted.

    The iPhone has great camera features and now ships with some of the best mobile productivity and media apps on the market. There's a reason why a lot of people are drawn to them. Apple is good at improving things that matter to consumers now, not just adding a bunch of little things that many people don't care about (something Samsung is often accused of).

    In the end I don't think killer features matter much. Its all about how the user uses the device. Someone who barely emails and doesn't use a calendar heavily will see little draw to BB10, but socialites will be very drawn to iOS and Android because they have better social media apps and services integrated into the platform or ecosystems.

    Its about use case. Most people will settle for iOS and Android because they are safe bets. That is one reason why I decided against the Z10.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
    Last edited by n8ter#AC; 01-02-14 at 12:42 PM.
    Kris Simundson likes this.
    01-02-14 12:31 PM
  10. waterfrontmgmt's Avatar
    Flash is dead on mobile until you need to access a web site on the go, that uses it. Then you are crap out of luck on an iPhone.

    It's a business thing and that is why BlackBerry has a chance in the business and prosumer market. They do the little things iOS doesn't.

    Posted via CB10
    01-02-14 01:08 PM
  11. slagman5's Avatar
    The option was there on Android. Flash performs badly and increases attack surface.

    Not many people miss it as many sites either have apps or have moved to HTML5.

    Again... Option existed. Not the point. Point is its not some killer feature. At least not in the way that word is being used here.

    Flash is dead on mobile.

    Almost all android flagship have a notification LED now. I don't tend to notice mine. My phone has smart alert and that's how I am notified. I pick the phone up and it gives a short vibration. I find the light useful but not a deal breaker if its omitted.

    The iPhone has great camera features and now ships with some of the best mobile productivity and media apps on the market. There's a reason why a lot of people are drawn to them. Apple is good at improving things that matter to consumers now, not just adding a bunch of little things that many people don't care about (something Samsung is often accused of).

    In the end I don't think killer features matter much. Its all about how the user uses the device. Someone who barely emails and doesn't use a calendar heavily will see little draw to BB10, but socialites will be very drawn to iOS and Android because they have better social media apps and services integrated into the platform or ecosystems.

    Its about use case. Most people will settle for iOS and Android because they are safe bets. That is one reason why I decided against the Z10.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
    LOL, wow, I've heard all of that rhetoric before... "Oh, my phone doesn't have this feature, but that's a good thing because that feature is not good." Pretty funny. Also funny about the notification LED in that iOS has an app to make the flash act like one. Yep, no demand for it at all... And your attempts to sound objective are pretty bad... Just so you know.

    And in case you were thinking about turning it around, I've recommended phones from all 3 ecosystems to my friends, it depends on what they want out of their phones, so I don't always recommend BB...

    Of course in the end none of that matters, they just go to the store and buy whatever the salesperson tells them is "cool" at the moment, lol. Silly people...

    Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10
    01-02-14 02:37 PM
  12. n8ter#AC's Avatar
    Don't really care what you use as no one here has ever cared what I've used.

    You can call it rhetoric. That's your prerogative.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
    01-02-14 02:38 PM
  13. TheoRadu's Avatar
    The option was there on Android. Flash performs badly and increases attack surface.

    Not many people miss it as many sites either have apps or have moved to HTML5.

    Again... Option existed. Not the point. Point is its not some killer feature. At least not in the way that word is being used here.

    Flash is dead on mobile.

    Almost all android flagship have a notification LED now. I don't tend to notice mine. My phone has smart alert and that's how I am notified. I pick the phone up and it gives a short vibration. I find the light useful but not a deal breaker if its omitted.

    The iPhone has great camera features and now ships with some of the best mobile productivity and media apps on the market. There's a reason why a lot of people are drawn to them. Apple is good at improving things that matter to consumers now, not just adding a bunch of little things that many people don't care about (something Samsung is often accused of).

    In the end I don't think killer features matter much. Its all about how the user uses the device. Someone who barely emails and doesn't use a calendar heavily will see little draw to BB10, but socialites will be very drawn to iOS and Android because they have better social media apps and services integrated into the platform or ecosystems.

    Its about use case. Most people will settle for iOS and Android because they are safe bets. That is one reason why I decided against the Z10.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
    1. Flash Player runs very well on my BlackBerry 10 device. It's as good as the desktop version. It ran very well on my PlayBook too. Performance was not the reason behind Apple's decision not to include Flash Player in Mobile Safari.

    2. Flash Player still exists on iOS and Android, just not in the browser. What do you think Adobe Air apps are? This again proves that there are no issues with the performance of Flash Player on mobile devices. If it's good for apps, it's good for the browser.

    3. Your point about socialites doesn't make sense. Apps might be a bit better (some, not all), but the integration is not. The sharing capabilities of iOS are extremely poor compared to BlackBerry 10 (and Android). Also, people who spend a lot of time on social media apps want a very good keyboard. iOS doesn't have one.

    Posted via CB10
    01-03-14 11:15 AM
  14. axeman1000's Avatar
    Because people usually watch videos. You can't watch a video while it is in the background. So it makes more sense to pause the video first and let the user decide if they want to unpause it or not. That is a better implementation than BlackBerry's in my opinion.

    BlackBerry fans would flip out if BlackBerry 10 could do that. Why wouldnt you want play and pause buttons for a youtube video in the media control panel? I think it would come in useful.
    You can if the video is pushed out to a TV by Dlna and you want to do something else on your phone, best reason to have it run in the background.....multitasking.

    BlackBerry forever, haters never!
    01-03-14 11:23 AM
  15. axeman1000's Avatar
    1. Flash Player runs very well on my BlackBerry 10 device. It's as good as the desktop version. It ran very well on my PlayBook too. Performance was not the reason behind Apple's decision not to include Flash Player in Mobile Safari.

    2. Flash Player still exists on iOS and Android, just not in the browser. What do you think Adobe Air apps are? This again proves that there are no issues with the performance of Flash Player on mobile devices. If it's good for apps, it's good for the browser.

    3. Your point about socialites doesn't make sense. Apps might be a bit better (some, not all), but the integration is not. The sharing capabilities of iOS are extremely poor compared to BlackBerry 10 (and Android). Also, people who spend a lot of time on social media apps want a very good keyboard. iOS doesn't have one.

    Posted via CB10
    This.....all correct. flash is not dead.

    BlackBerry forever, haters never!
    01-03-14 11:24 AM
  16. TheoRadu's Avatar
    This.....all correct. flash is not dead.

    BlackBerry forever, haters never!
    Not yet at least. All this talk of its death was a bit premature. It started with Jobs' stupid letter in which he said Flash can't run on mobile devices (even if it was and still is running on his precious iPhones and iPads).

    Posted via CB10
    01-03-14 11:47 AM
  17. n8ter#AC's Avatar
    1. Flash Player runs very well on my BlackBerry 10 device. It's as good as the desktop version. It ran very well on my PlayBook too. Performance was not the reason behind Apple's decision not to include Flash Player in Mobile Safari.

    2. Flash Player still exists on iOS and Android, just not in the browser. What do you think Adobe Air apps are? This again proves that there are no issues with the performance of Flash Player on mobile devices. If it's good for apps, it's good for the browser.

    3. Your point about socialites doesn't make sense. Apps might be a bit better (some, not all), but the integration is not. The sharing capabilities of iOS are extremely poor compared to BlackBerry 10 (and Android). Also, people who spend a lot of time on social media apps want a very good keyboard. iOS doesn't have one.

    Posted via CB10
    Performance is more than that. Flash uses more power than html5 video and audio tags. Etc. Apple not supporting it is an excuse. The reason flash waned is because it simply is not a great solution to that issue on mobile.

    AIR is not the same as flash, and it has many of the same performance issues never mind air apps tend to use gobs of ram. RIM was probably one of the few major developers dumb enough to use air that heavily.
    Socialites want the apps to be social, which many don't exist for BB10. My point is fair. Quality and feature parity matter to those people.

    Sharing has nothing to do with it, and neither does the keyboard. What you said would make more sense if the iPhone want outselling BB10 100:1.

    Also. Flash is no longer developed for Android. It barely gets security fixes or anything. It is no longer optimized for newer versions of android and newer hardware. Its more inefficient than ever to use it now than it ever was.

    Its 2014. Stop blaming Steve Jobs for flash dying on the platform with 6x iOS's market share. Flash went out the window because it's just not great tech for mobile devices. The fact that RIM kept using it (and AIR, which is equally terrible) doesn't make it any less bad.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
    Last edited by n8ter#AC; 01-03-14 at 12:06 PM.
    01-03-14 11:54 AM
  18. TheoRadu's Avatar
    Performance is more than that. Flash uses more power than html5 video and audio tags. Etc. Apple not supporting it is an excuse. The reason flash waned is because it simply is not a great solution to that issue on mobile.

    AIR is not the same as flash, and it has many of the same performance issues never mind air apps tend to use gobs of ram. RIM was probably one of the few major developers dumb enough to use air that heavily.
    Socialites want the apps to be social, which many don't exist for BB10. My point is fair. Quality and feature parity matter to those people.

    Sharing has nothing to do with it, and neither does the keyboard. What you said would make more sense if the iPhone want outselling BB10 100:1.

    Also. Flash is no longer developed for Android. It barely gets security fixes or anything. It is no longer optimized for newer versions of android and newer hardware. Its more inefficient than ever to use it now than it ever was.

    Its 2014. Stop blaming Steve Jobs for flash dying on the platform with 6x iOS's market share. Flash went out the window because it's just not great tech for mobile devices. The fact that RIM kept using it (and AIR, which is equally terrible) doesn't make it any less bad.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
    Flash doesn't use more power, where did you read that? Any benchmarks you can show me?

    Here's one that shows that Flash is still a lot faster than JavaScript + HTML 5: http://www.themaninblue.com/writing/...ve/2010/03/22/

    Yes, Adobe Air is not the same as Flash, I never said it is. But most (if not all) Adobe Air apps are Flash based (written in ActionScript and built in Flash Builder) even though Air supports HTML/CSS and JavaScript as well. Adobe Air is basically a browser with Flash support and no address bar. Anyway, here are some Flash games that seem to perform very well on my iPad: http:// gaming.adobe.com/showcase/

    Edit: found another good example of a Flash app/game: Good Ways to Die.

    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by TheoRadu; 01-03-14 at 01:39 PM.
    01-03-14 01:26 PM
  19. n8ter#AC's Avatar
    Flash has always been a battery hog. It doesn't use the CPU as efficiently as other runtimes, for example. Flash also has this effect on notebook and laptop machines though it is less of an issue there.

    ActionScript is a programming language. Flash Builder is an IDE and compiler. Air is not flash. Air is a completely different runtime than the flash player. This is like saying the .NET runtime and Java are equivalent.

    Yes air has flash support, but it is also a memory and CPU hog compared to something like Androids native runtime or the .NET in Windows phone. Almost no one uses AIR on mobile because its bad. People avoid AIR desktop apps due to then being so bloated and memory hungry as well.

    RIM used AIR liberally in the Playbook, and it didn't work out to well for them.

    Air is not a browser. Seriously... its a runtimes on which Applications are built and packaged.

    And there are certainly cases where using air for development and deployment makes perfect sense. Don't get me wrong.

    But I think the raving about Flash and AIR on mobile is laughable. The only people that care anymore are so low in number as to not be a factor. Any site that wants to be taken seriously is compatible with iDevices and Android mobiles. People do tok much content consumption on mobile to ignore it and stick with flash these days.

    Flash games seriously?

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
    Last edited by n8ter#AC; 01-03-14 at 01:42 PM.
    01-03-14 01:31 PM
  20. anon(6038817)'s Avatar
    RIM used AIR liberally in the Playbook, and it didn't work out to well for them.
    The failure of the PlayBook is not because it can run Flash abd AIR. It actually runs both of them quite well, in my experience. That it can do so with only 1 GB of RAM and a 1 GHz dual core CPU without severe battery drain is actually a testament to the robustness of the QNX platform, IMO.
    01-03-14 01:45 PM
  21. n8ter#AC's Avatar
    The failure of the PlayBook is not because it can run Flash abd AIR. It actually runs both of them quite well, in my experience. That it can do so with only 1 GB of RAM and a 1 GHz dual core CPU without severe battery drain is actually a testament to the robustness of the QNX platform, IMO.
    Android phones did flash with 512 mbps ram and 1ghz cpus. The issue isnt the specs. It was thw software (flash and air).

    Also, playbook had tons of memory issues when it was released. You couldn't multitask well and I'm sure that's why BB10 has an 8 limit (6 on alpha device with 1ghz).

    I don't find the memory management very robust, personally.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
    01-03-14 01:48 PM
  22. TheoRadu's Avatar
    Flash has always been a battery hog. It doesn't use the CPU as efficiently as other runtimes, for example. Flash also has this effect on notebook and laptop machines though it is less of an issue there.

    ActionScript is a programming language. Flash Builder is an IDE and compiler. Air is not flash. Air is a completely different runtime than the flash player. This is like saying the .NET runtime and Java are equivalent.

    Yes air has flash support, but it is also a memory and CPU hog compared to something like Androids native runtime or the .NET in Windows phone. Almost no one uses AIR on mobile because its bad. People avoid AIR desktop apps due to then being so bloated and memory hungry as well.

    RIM used AIR liberally in the Playbook, and it didn't work out to well for them.

    Air is not a browser. Seriously... its a runtimes on which Applications are built and packaged.

    And there are certainly cases where using air for development and deployment makes perfect sense. Don't get me wrong.

    But I think the raving about Flash and AIR on mobile is laughable. The only people that care anymore are so low in number as to not be a factor. Any site that wants to be taken seriously is compatible with iDevices and Android mobiles. People do tok much content consumption on mobile to ignore it and stick with flash these days.

    Flash games seriously?

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
    Show me proof please regarding the performance and the battery problems. In the meantime, the benchmark I gave you shows that Flash is faster than Canvas and JS.

    Thanks for telling me things I already know. Yes, ActionScript is a programming language based on ECMAscript (like JavaScript) and Flash Builder is an IDE based on Eclipse. I'm not sure why you felt the need to explain this to me... (I'm a developer by the way)

    And I know that Air is not really a browser, it was a quick explanation for people who are not familiar with it. What I wanted to say is that It is LIKE a browser: it renders apps created with web tech (HTML, CSS, JavaScript, Flash).

    There are a lot of popular Flash games in the iOS AppStore. "Dumb Ways to Die" has 80,353 reviews, almost all of them positive. It runs great on my iPad.

    Posted via CB10
    01-03-14 01:55 PM
  23. n8ter#AC's Avatar
    Yes. They are apps in the app store. Flash isn't on the iphone so calling them flash games is misleading. Some may use air, but I'm mot sure how many.

    Flash performance issues have been widely known since 2010. There is too much info to dump in this thread and I don't really give much credence to synthetic benchmarks because they are what they are.

    Google for the relevant info. Its there and the fact that I don't want to fumble around on a phone to copy and paste links doesn't change that.

    That performance benchmark doesn't address multiple things that affect power usage in mobile devices...

    Microsofts Windows RT/Metro runtime works similar to air yet makes much better use of resources. An air app will never be as performance as a Windows Phone 8 app on hardware like the L520... Why is that?

    We already see how poor flash and air apps perform compared to native and metro apps on desktops with much superior hardware to mobile devices, and we see their excessive memory and CPU usage there as well. Flash has improve a bit with hardware acceleration, but so have browsers.

    The benchmark you linked is from 2010. 3 years and 10 months ago, almost... it's mot useful. Browsers have improved a lot more than mobile flash has. Flash for mobile isn't even in development anymore. Only maintenance mode. Link something more relevant.

    JavaScript and Engines in browsers have improved exponentially over the past 4 years. This is like linking an IE8 benchmark and saying its a slow browser. That benchmark is objectively worthless.

    You do realize almost no browsers were hardware accelerated back then, for example?

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
    Last edited by n8ter#AC; 01-03-14 at 02:08 PM.
    01-03-14 01:58 PM
  24. waterfrontmgmt's Avatar
    Who cares? It's still an iPhone!

    I've been using my iPhone 5 today for GPS. I loathe switching back and forth between apps on it. Love the way the Q handles it.

    Posted via CB10
    01-03-14 02:06 PM
  25. TheoRadu's Avatar
    Yes. They are apps in the app store. Flash isn't on the iphone so calling them flash games is misleading. Some may use air, but I'm mot sure how many.

    Flash performance issues have been widely known since 2010. There is too much info to dump in this thread and I don't really give much credence to synthetic benchmarks because they are what they are.

    Google for the relevant info. Its there and the fact that I don't want to fumble around on a phone to copy and paste links doesn't change that.

    That performance benchmark doesn't address multiple things that affect power usage in mobile devices...

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
    I just gave you an example of an Adobe Air iOS game with 80k+ positive reviews. Try it! It looks just like a native game. And before you say anything, it is a Flash game. The developer says so on his website: http://julianfrost.co.nz/things/dumb-ways-to-die-game/

    Flash is more powerful than you think. I'm not saying it's faster than native code, but it is definitely faster than HTML 5 and JavaScript.

    And regarding battery life, I watch many Flash videos in a day on my BlackBerry Q10 and I've never had any issues.

    Posted via CB10
    01-03-14 02:13 PM
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