[GoJaysGo]

I've been testing the Z10, and have noticed sites with JavaScript are super slow. Take nhl.com for example. It's not uncommon in my tests (on different Z10's) over both LTE and WiFi to have the page freeze, or take forever to load. Running a JavaScript test on the browser show almost double the time it takes an iPhone 5 to do the same test.

I'm curious if you can check the nhl.com page to see if you're seeing similar results.

The JavaScript test page I used is here:
SunSpider JavaScript Benchmark

Z10 Results: 1888.3ms


iPhone 5 Results: 908.9ms


nhl.com screen results:


The white empty boxes and the big black box take a along time to load. These are almost instant when you do the same on an iPhone 5...

[root2]

I haven't done any speed tests but have noticed nhl.com doesn't load particularly well.


Posted using CrackBerry App on BB10

[katesbb]

I watched a browser comparison a ways back... sorry I don't remember the link... but it showed that the BB10 browser did really well versus Android and iPhone EXCEPT for javascript, where it again fell way behind.

I don't know what it is about BlackBerries and javascript, they've always been like this, even with BBOS and the PlayBook (which I assumed was a different browser entirely). It's apparently a problem that's not going away.

[RubberChicken76]

I don't know what it is about BlackBerries and javascript, they've always been like this, even with BBOS and the PlayBook (which I assumed was a different browser entirely). It's apparently a problem that's not going away.

Yeah - I don't understand it either. You leave JavaScript on and the PlayBook sometimes stalls on loading a site or is slow. You turn it off and the thing goes like a bat out of _____. It's bizarre.

[GoJaysGo]

It doesn't appear that you can disable JavaScript on BB10.

[Skeevecr]

I watched a browser comparison a ways back... sorry I don't remember the link... but it showed that the BB10 browser did really well versus Android and iPhone EXCEPT for javascript, where it again fell way behind.

I don't know what it is about BlackBerries and javascript, they've always been like this, even with BBOS and the PlayBook (which I assumed was a different browser entirely). It's apparently a problem that's not going away.

Actually, most tests people posted for that sunspider test showed the bb10 browser to be smack in with all the other devices using arm9-based SoCs with the ip5 being out in front due to apple having done something to reduce the memory bandwidth bottleneck that was the limiting factor for all those results.

One thing to bear in mind, that benchmark is very inconsistent on mobile devices, you can readily see a variation of up to 300ms on repeated tests of the same device, so it does not seem like one that you should attach too much weight to.

[mikeo007]

One thing to bear in mind, that benchmark is very inconsistent on mobile devices, you can readily see a variation of up to 500ms on repeated tests of the same device, so it does not seem like one that you should attach too much weight to.

I've never seen a variation even close to that. On my SGS it's within 100ms every time, i5 it's within about 50ms every time. Heck, even my 9900 (which has the biggest margin for error) is usually within 200ms.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't BB10 using the basic webkit javascriptcore as their JS engine? If that's the case, they're always going to be behind Apple and Google until they develop their own JS engine. Google has their own V8 engine, and Apple's nitro is also ahead of the base WebKit engine as well. Heck, Microsoft's Chakra is faster than both in some tests.

[GoJaysGo]

Forget benchmarks if you think they are "very inconsistent" go to a website (nhl.com) that has javascript, and you'll see the real world performance issues...

[Skeevecr]

Corrected my typo, should have been 300 ms not 500 ms and I have seen that level of variation on both android and bb10.

The idea that they are always behind those you mention is not really true either, the results I tend to get would put bb10 comfortably in the pack of qualcomm-based devices listed in the table on anandtech that tested a wide range of devices AnandTech - iPhone 5/A6 SunSpider Performance: Faster than Intel's Atom Z2460 and as you can see from the few to sneak ahead the limiting factor on that benchmark is the actual chipset in use rather than a device-specific JS engine.

[katesbb]

Has anyone compared BB10 to the PlayBook's browser? Is BB10 faster with JavaScript than the PlayBook?

[mikeo007]

Corrected my typo, should have been 300 ms not 500 ms and I have seen that level of variation on both android and bb10.

The idea that they are always behind those you mention is not really true either, the results I tend to get would put bb10 comfortably in the pack of qualcomm-based devices listed in the table on anandtech that tested a wide range of devices AnandTech - iPhone 5/A6 SunSpider Performance: Faster than Intel's Atom Z2460 and as you can see from the few to sneak ahead the limiting factor on that benchmark is the actual chipset in use rather than a device-specific JS engine.

Right, but aren't they always going to be at a disadvantage since they will always be relying on others' contributions to improve their engine?

That's why google developed v8 in the first place, so that they didn't have to rely on Apple.

Benchmarks aside, like it was mentioned above, BB10 currently struggles with javascript compared to other high-end devices.

[RubberChicken76]

Just for fun, I just ran the test on my PlayBook (running yesterday's OS update), my iPod Touch (last generation device) and my iPhone 4S.

[greatwiseone]

I've never seen a variation even close to that. On my SGS it's within 100ms every time, i5 it's within about 50ms every time. Heck, even my 9900 (which has the biggest margin for error) is usually within 200ms.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't BB10 using the basic webkit javascriptcore as their JS engine? If that's the case, they're always going to be behind Apple and Google until they develop their own JS engine. Google has their own V8 engine, and Apple's nitro is also ahead of the base WebKit engine as well. Heck, Microsoft's Chakra is faster than both in some tests.

RIM ported v8 over to BB10 (see the wiki page here (V8 (JavaScript engine) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) ; it lists BB10; see also RIM's Github page:https://github.com/blackberry/v8). I'm not sure how BB10 uses v8, but I recall seeing somewhere that v8 is not used in the browser...

PlayBook browser also had crappy javascript performance. I would have thought that improvements have been made in BB10. I don't trust these benchmarks 100% though.

[grevan88]

I suppose nhl.com loaded a hit slower than other sites but within like 12 seconds it was loaded in full. Wouldn't have even noticed a difference.

Posted using CrackBerry App on BB10

[peter9477]

I'm not sure how BB10 uses v8, but I recall seeing somewhere that v8 is not used in the browser...

I have no idea if it's used currently in BB10, but I believe Qt5 uses V8 as the JS engine, for QML.

[Sqoon]

Has anyone compared BB10 to the PlayBook's browser? Is BB10 faster with JavaScript than the PlayBook?

Multitudes faster, the PlayBook browser just curls up and dies when it sees Java script.
Loading java script with the PlayBook is ordering a subscription to checkerboardville.

Posted using CrackBerry App on BB10

[samab]

Right, but aren't they always going to be at a disadvantage since they will always be relying on others' contributions to improve their engine?

That's why google developed v8 in the first place, so that they didn't have to rely on Apple.

Benchmarks aside, like it was mentioned above, BB10 currently struggles with javascript compared to other high-end devices.

iPhone 5's great javascript score is based on its chipset's larger memory pipelines --- which is also Intel's argument that why their Intel Atom-based XOXO X900 has much better javascript scores than ARM Cortex A9 chipsets.

Google's need to run huge databases and huge server farms --- led their experimental skunkworks to create several new proprietary computer languages. They have the manpower to do a lot of things RIM can't.

Using other people's codes is also the main effect that the BB10 browser score the highest in HTML5test scores. QNX is POSIX certified --- it acts as a sponge for everything. The only "disadvantage" is when Apple engineers work in secret for months --- create a brand new proprietary javascript engine and then dump it onto the webkit's open source project's lap. Other people have to spend months and months of trying to understand these formerly proprietary codes ---- while Apple ships that code in actual products.

If you just compare with the smartphones with IDENTICAL chipsets running on the same clock (MSM8960 at 1.5 GHz) --- you will find that the z10 runs anywhere between 1600-1800 on sunspider --- which is right at the point of HTC One X (AT&T) and Samsung Galaxy S III (AT&T). Their international variants use different chipsets --- so don't look at those scores.

BB10 also has a browser that is made from HTML5 codes --- a decision that I disagreed with. If RIM made a Cascades-based browser app, they could have squeezed another 5-10% of performance.

[samab]

I have no idea if it's used currently in BB10, but I believe Qt5 uses V8 as the JS engine, for QML.

BB10 uses javascriptcore, not v8.

[mikeo007]

iPhone 5's great javascript score is based on its chipset's larger memory pipelines --- which is also Intel's argument that why their Intel Atom-based XOXO X900 has much better javascript scores than ARM Cortex A9 chipsets.

Google's need to run huge databases and huge server farms --- led their experimental skunkworks to create several new proprietary computer languages. They have the manpower to do a lot of things RIM can't.

Using other people's codes is also the main effect that the BB10 browser score the highest in HTML5test scores. QNX is POSIX certified --- it acts as a sponge for everything. The only "disadvantage" is when Apple engineers work in secret for months --- create a brand new proprietary javascript engine and then dump it onto the webkit's open source project's lap. Other people have to spend months and months of trying to understand these formerly proprietary codes ---- while Apple ships that code in actual products.

If you just compare with the smartphones with IDENTICAL chipsets running on the same clock (MSM8960 at 1.5 GHz) --- you will find that the z10 runs anywhere between 1600-1800 on sunspider --- which is right at the point of HTC One X (AT&T) and Samsung Galaxy S III (AT&T). Their international variants use different chipsets --- so don't look at those scores.

BB10 also has a browser that is made from HTML5 codes --- a decision that I disagreed with. If RIM made a Cascades-based browser app, they could have squeezed another 5-10% of performance.

Only the browser UI is developed in html5. The rendering engine and middleware layer is Built in native code.
This has zero effect on javascript performance.

[samab]

Only the browser UI is developed in html5. The rendering engine and middleware layer is Built in native code.
This has zero effect on javascript performance.

No matter how big or how small the performance gap is --- there is a performance gap between a 100% native c/c++ browser app vs. a 90% native c/c++ browser engine with a 10% HTML5 UI.

And in this cruel blogging age where it's a big thumbs down for small things like boot-up speed --- RIM couldn't afford these little performance give-aways. RIM could have scored a 1550 sunspider with a 100% native c/c++ browser and leave no doubt that BB10 is faster than comparatively spec'd Samsung/LG android phones.

[Carterbits]

Rumor is that BlackBerry will be switching from Webkit to Chromium for the browser. If this is true, Javascript performance should improve because Chromium includes a fast js engine called V8:

"Because of Chromium's unique multi-process architecture, the integration of the V8 JavaScript engine, and other factors,..."
http://googlecode.blogspot.com/2008/...aunch.html?m=1

Download Noted, my 5-star rated, native BB10 notepad app.

[Carterbits]

In case anyone is keeping score, BBOS 10.3 isn't really making any progress with Javascript performance, insofar as I can tell.

I'm on Z10STL100-3/10.3.0.1154 now

Using sunspider 1.0.2 this was my score:

============================================
RESULTS (means and 95% confidence intervals)
--------------------------------------------
Total: 1469.4ms +/- 1.5%
--------------------------------------------

Anandtech bench marked 10.2 and got 1298.2ms and on 10.1 they got 1426.0ms

Just wanted to pass along my findings.

Download Noted, my 5-star rated, native BB10 notepad app.

[Heinz Katchup]

Rumor is that BlackBerry will be switching from Webkit to Chromium for the browser. If this is true, Javascript performance should improve because Chromium includes a fast js engine called V8:

"Because of Chromium's unique multi-process architecture, the integration of the V8 JavaScript engine, and other factors,..."
http://googlecode.blogspot.com/2008/...aunch.html?m=1

Download Noted, my 5-star rated, native BB10 notepad app.

What is your source for this rumor? That's very interesting if true.

Posted with X10 via CB10

[Carterbits]

http://www.berryreview.com/2014/02/1...omium-browser/

Download Noted, my 5-star rated, native BB10 notepad app.

[Dave Bourque]

I hope it's true. Because the biggest weakness for the BlackBerry 10 browser is javascript.

Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.3247