04-22-18 08:24 PM
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  1. cbvinh's Avatar
    Exactly... and so many questions have NEVER been truly answered... only the same tired excuses over and over and over and over again... doesn't make them valid.
    They can't ever be 100% truly answered to any one particular person's "agenda".
    09-15-17 12:10 PM
  2. cbvinh's Avatar
    Or just post in the "Armchair CEO" forum, which is what it's for!
    Yes!
    09-15-17 12:32 PM
  3. Bogdan Tudor Dan's Avatar
    I've been thinking about why I feel that way and it is really hard to put my finger on. You must keep in mind that I didn't stay with BlackBerry 10 till the end. So there may be some features that were added BB10 that I wasn't around to use and don't know about.

    With that said - One part of it is BB10 doesn't have a real home screen. When you swipe up to go home, you're brought to a task switching screen and then the app drawer. With legacy BlackBerry OS and the KEYone, you have a home screen to customize, the app drawer and a task switching view.

    Both BBOS and the KEYone offered significantly more customization options than BB10. I used to love making themes for BBOS.

    With BlackBerry OS, the Hub, which was called Messages back then, was entirely optional. I didn't use BB10 long, but for the entire time I was using it they basically forced you to use the Hub. With my KEYone and BlackBerry OS, I had icons for each individual account on my phone. Those icons bring me directly to the account I need instantly. With both the KEYone and BBOS I only ever use the Hub/Messages at the end of the day to delete things I no longer need. At the time that I had BB10 devices that wasn't possible. I'm not sure if it has been added now or not.

    I can do way more with my KEYone than I could ever do with BB10. My KEYone has all of the apps I could ever need and with Android, I have split screen multitasking. A feature I use practically everyday with my KEYone. The huge assortment of apps, and better multitasking enables me to do far more with my KEYone than I ever could with any of the BB10 devices I had. I am way more productive with a KEYone than I could ever be with BB10. And to me, BlackBerry phones are about getting stuff done.

    The last big part of it is the keyboard. My KEYone has already lasted longer without a single double type than my Q10 or Dev Alpha C did. The double type issue that plagued every single physical keyboard BB10 device I touched was the nail in the coffin for my use of BlackBerry 10. My Q10 had its first double type within weeks of arriving. I got a replacement, and it still double typed. I even seen a store display Q10 that was double typing and them store displays didn't last long.

    So far (I'm knocking on wood in real life), the KEYone's keyboard is flawless. With a real physical keyboard BlackBerry, you can type out complete sentences without unwanted double lettering. That's something none of my BB10 devices could offer me.

    For me, using a KEYone feels more like using a Bold 99 than any of the BB10 devices I used.
    I think I see your point, but from what I understand the keyone is more as a BlackBerry than a BB10 device because you have to open separate apps for messages when you want to see it and it bothers you if have to acces them in the hub. From this point of view you are right, with BB10 you don't have the option to do things in a more complicated way, while on BBOS and Android you did have it. For example if I had to open something from the Messages app it opened it in the dedicated app, not inside "Messages". I am saying this maybe without knowing as much as you do about BBOS, I wasn't a heavy user of it.

    About BB10, there is something I don't understand. I see some posts with issues, people complaining about certain things that I never had on my Z10 or my Passport. The double typing happened to me only like a couple of times, but maybe this is also because I use the autocorrect.

    Only fault I had was a bluetooth bug with my firs passport SE which was fixed with a security wipe and in the end after almost 1.5 years the microphone didn't work properly.

    I don't know how is the multitasking on the keyone, but the only one I found better than on BB10 was on Samsung Note with the option of having multiview. But I don't remember BBOS having multitasking.

    I didn't use any of the Android Blackberries, but from all the reviews I've I found it to be just like any Android device (OS related).

    Posted via CB10
    09-15-17 03:08 PM
  4. Bogdan Tudor Dan's Avatar
    BlackBerry marketed the hell out of he Z10 and Q10 at launch here in the US and in Canada. People didn’t buy the phones because there was no reason for them to.
    US and Canada it's not the same with worldwide.

    Posted via CB10
    09-15-17 03:15 PM
  5. Witmen's Avatar
    I think I see your point, but from what I understand the keyone is more as a BlackBerry than a BB10 device because you have to open separate apps for messages when you want to see it and it bothers you if have to acces them in the hub. From this point of view you are right, with BB10 you don't have the option to do things in a more complicated way, while on BBOS and Android you did have it. For example if I had to open something from the Messages app it opened it in the dedicated app, not inside "Messages". I am saying this maybe without knowing as much as you do about BBOS, I wasn't a heavy user of it.

    About BB10, there is something I don't understand. I see some posts with issues, people complaining about certain things that I never had on my Z10 or my Passport. The double typing happened to me only like a couple of times, but maybe this is also because I use the autocorrect.

    Only fault I had was a bluetooth bug with my firs passport SE which was fixed with a security wipe and in the end after almost 1.5 years the microphone didn't work properly.

    I don't know how is the multitasking on the keyone, but the only one I found better than on BB10 was on Samsung Note with the option of having multiview. But I don't remember BBOS having multitasking.

    I didn't use any of the Android Blackberries, but from all the reviews I've I found it to be just like any Android device (OS related).

    Posted via CB10
    BlackBerry OS most definitely did have multitasking. A long press of one of the menu buttons brought up a panel which allowed you to switch through your opened apps.

    How is having individual icons for accounts more complicated? It is more options, more options is better. With KEYone I have the option to go directly into the account I need or go into the Hub and then search threw everything to find what I'm looking for. Having both options is certainly better than not having them like BB10.

    The BlackBerry KEYone has split view multitasking that is similar to what Samsung does, whereas more than one app can be opened in the foreground at a time.

    I never had a Passport, so maybe it wasn't effected, but the double typing problem is very well documented on other BB10 devices. If you didn't run into it, count yourself as being one of the lucky people. Lol

    Millions of BlackBerry OS users for whatever reason decided not to move to BB10. The situation was so bad that BlackBerry OS was still out selling BB10 for a very long time after it launched. BlackBerry even went back to making BlackBerry OS devices briefly.

    I don't think I'm alone when I say that BlackBerry 10 didn't feel like a BlackBerry. BlackBerry flavored Android may not be perfect, but for me it is closer to what I want/need from a BlackBerry device than BB10 ever got.
    09-15-17 03:22 PM
  6. Bogdan Tudor Dan's Avatar
    Remember this awfulness:

    http://www.smh.com.au/technology/tec...430-1xvui.html

    Followed by these terrible ads that ran constantly:




    I mean they had a SuperBowl commercial for gods sakes. It’s always hilarious to me when I see “If BlackBerry would have only done marketing the devices would have sold.” They did do marketing, it’s just that no one bought the devices.
    I am from Europe, for God's sakes. I don't watch American football. Maybe it's just me but if I would have to guess how many people in Euro-Asia are watching American Football - my guess would be : "not many"

    Posted via CB10
    09-15-17 03:23 PM
  7. Bogdan Tudor Dan's Avatar
    Provide links to threads spread over six years? Even Conite doesn't do that. It's a significant impact to look up and provide these links; if it wasn't, these new posters would have read them and not repeated known debates.

    The main problem with these divergent posts is that they clog up a thread on another topic. We were talking about the new iOS gestures and how they relate to BB10. The thread has diverged into another "failings of BlackBerry and what they could have done better".

    The questions you ask have been asked before and debated over before... many, many times. If you truly seek the answers, then Google those questions as CrackBerry threads have provided those very answers.
    I might be crazy, but if on a topic about Apple introducing some BB10 features someone is asking why BlackBerry couldn't sell the same thing, especially taking into account the fact that those features were something important at the launch of Iphone X, it's right on the subject.

    You don't have to answer to all the questions, especially if they can be found with Google. You will not get a ticket if you don't answer. Just ignore, that's the secret.

    If you really want to bring back into attention the main topic of the thread, say something about it. That would be more efectiv than criticising. For example now you are basically chatting with me about what people should ask and what not on a thread about Apple using features from BB10. Do you see the irony in it?

    Posted via CB10
    DreadPirateRegan likes this.
    09-15-17 03:36 PM
  8. Bogdan Tudor Dan's Avatar
    BlackBerry OS most definitely did have multitasking. A long press of one of the menu buttons brought up a panel which allowed you to switch through your opened apps.

    How is having individual icons for accounts more complicated? It is more options, more options is better. With KEYone I have the option to go directly into the account I need or go into the Hub and then search threw everything to find what I'm looking for. Having both options is certainly better than not having them like BB10.

    The BlackBerry KEYone has split view multitasking that is similar to what Samsung does, whereas more than one app can be opened in the foreground at a time.

    I never had a Passport, so maybe it wasn't effected, but the double typing problem is very well documented on other BB10 devices. If you didn't run into it, count yourself as being one of the lucky people. Lol

    Millions of BlackBerry OS users for whatever reason decided not to move to BB10. The situation was so bad that BlackBerry OS was still out selling BB10 for a very long time after it launched. BlackBerry even went back to making BlackBerry OS devices briefly.

    I don't think I'm alone when I say that BlackBerry 10 didn't feel like a BlackBerry. BlackBerry flavored Android may not be perfect, but for me it is closer to what I want/need from a BlackBerry device than BB10 ever got.
    having individual icons for accounts more complicated because it's like instead of having the hammer and the screwdriver in the same box, I keep them in separate boxes. Just imagine having each tool in your garage into a separate box instead of having all of them into one box. And what is nice is that with BlackBerry Hub is just like having one box with all the tools, but all the tools are in their own group. That means that you have Al the accounts as separate accounts in the hub. That way I always look in the same place and just select the account I want. I can have separate accounts in the hub. I don't have to look for a certain app to open a message. It's in the hub.

    While millions of people decided not to go with BB10, for me BB10 is what I like and not BlackBerry in general. BTW, I think BlackBerry lost those millions of users before they released BB10. When BB10 was released most of them were Android or IOS users. After that they didn't care to go back to BlackBerry. I was already having my Z10 and when people heard I have a BlackBerry, but without seeing it they were saying: " I know BlackBerry, but those are old phones with buttons", they didn't even know BlackBerry has a new fresh OS, they all thought Blackberries are stil on old BBOS.

    Yes, BlackBerry started to sell again Bold 9900 after the Z10 came out.

    Posted via CB10
    09-15-17 03:51 PM
  9. app_Developer's Avatar
    I am from Europe, for God's sakes. I don't watch American football. Maybe it's just me but if I would have to guess how many people in Euro-Asia are watching American Football - my guess would be : "not many"

    Posted via CB10
    I think it's true that BB spent much more of their advertising budget in the US and Canada than in other countries.

    But it didn't really help, did it? So if you're looking at this as an experiment, the results in the US with significant investment weren't very good. If anything it just drove more returns.

    Canada is a special case of course because of the patriotic support.
    09-15-17 03:52 PM
  10. donnation's Avatar
    I might be crazy, but if on a topic about Apple introducing some BB10 features someone is asking why BlackBerry couldn't sell the same thing, especially taking into account the fact that those features were something important at the launch of Iphone X, it's right on the subject.

    You don't have to answer to all the questions, especially if they can be found with Google. You will not get a ticket if you don't answer. Just ignore, that's the secret.

    If you really want to bring back into attention the main topic of the thread, say something about it. That would be more efectiv than criticising. For example now you are basically chatting with me about what people should ask and what not on a thread about Apple using features from BB10. Do you see the irony in it?

    Posted via CB10
    Those features weren’t important to the launch of the iPhone X. No one is going to run out and buy the iPhone x because it has a swipe feature. They will buy it because of all the other features. It’s grasping at straws thinking otherwise.
    09-15-17 03:53 PM
  11. donnation's Avatar
    I am from Europe, for God's sakes. I don't watch American football. Maybe it's just me but if I would have to guess how many people in Euro-Asia are watching American Football - my guess would be : "not many"

    Posted via CB10
    It doesn’t matter where you are from. If they would have done the same marketing in Europe the devices would have failed. They were half baked, but ridden phones at launch with no apps and terrible cameras. People had already moved on from Blackberry. Those are just the facts.
    09-15-17 03:55 PM
  12. Witmen's Avatar
    having individual icons for accounts more complicated because it's like instead of having the hammer and the screwdriver in the same box, I keep them in separate boxes. Just imagine having each tool in your garage into a separate box instead of having all of them into one box. And what is nice is that with BlackBerry Hub is just like having one box with all the tools, but all the tools are in their own group. That means that you have Al the accounts as separate accounts in the hub. That way I always look in the same place and just select the account I want. I can have separate accounts in the hub. I don't have to look for a certain app to open a message. It's in the hub.

    Posted via CB10
    Ok maybe you don't understand what I'm talking about. The icons on BBOS and KEYone are just account shortcuts to the Hub. I'm still using the Hub, just by using the account icon I'm going directly into the account I need from the home screen. It isn't more complicated at all. It just makes things faster because I don't have to enter the Hub and see stuff from apps or accounts I don't need.

    Even if the confuse you, which who knows why they would - you don't have to use them. They are an option. Lol

    Buy a KEYone and try it with an open mind. You might be surprised how lacking BB10 is in comparison.
    09-15-17 03:58 PM
  13. Bogdan Tudor Dan's Avatar
    I think it's true that BB spent much more of their advertising budget in the US and Canada than in other countries.

    But it didn't really help, did it? So if you're looking at this as an experiment, the results in the US with significant investment weren't very good. If anything it just drove more returns.

    Canada is a special case of course because of the patriotic support.
    I don't know how many devices they sold in US, but with better advertising outside US and Canada, maybe it would have been better. In the same time, I used BB10 only starting the beginning of 2014 and I had an 10.2.1 update available. From what I read on CB, when they released BB10, it wasn't that good as 10.2.1. I am also thinking that they shoud have been release it later in a more stable version.

    Posted via CB10
    09-15-17 04:22 PM
  14. Bogdan Tudor Dan's Avatar
    Ok maybe you don't understand what I'm talking about. The icons on BBOS and KEYone are just account shortcuts to the Hub. I'm still using the Hub, just by using the account icon I'm going directly into the account I need from the home screen. It isn't more complicated at all. It just makes things faster because I don't have to enter the Hub and see stuff from apps or accounts I don't need.

    Even if the confuse you, which who knows why they would - you don't have to use them. They are an option. Lol

    Buy a KEYone and try it with an open mind. You might be surprised how lacking BB10 is in comparison.
    Yes, you are right. I misunderstood what you were saying.

    Thanks for the advise, but I don't think I'll buy an Android device. There is a big chance that my next phone will be an Iphone. I am glad they implemented some things I like from BB10, but they still have to improve some things. Or maybe they already have it and I don't know.

    Posted via CB10
    09-15-17 04:28 PM
  15. Bogdan Tudor Dan's Avatar
    It doesn’t matter where you are from. If they would have done the same marketing in Europe the devices would have failed. They were half baked, but ridden phones at launch with no apps and terrible cameras. People had already moved on from Blackberry. Those are just the facts.
    Maybe at the launch, but they could advertise it after it was improved. But in reality, the think that Facebook and other social media companies didn't want to support them killed the chances of survival.

    Posted via CB10
    09-15-17 04:30 PM
  16. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    US and Canada it's not the same with worldwide.

    Posted via CB10
    It didn't and wouldn't have mattered. Advertising in additional parts of the planet would have just led to more dissatisfied customers on additional continents. The problem with BB10 was not the advertising, it was the product itself and timing of the introduction about 5 years too late.

    Even if BlackBerry had overcome all those obstacles, they never had the resources of Apple, Google and Microsoft. Even with all those resources, only two of three succeeded anyways...
    09-15-17 05:55 PM
  17. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Maybe at the launch, but they could advertise it after it was improved.
    By the time 10.2.1 was released, it was already into 2014, and BB10 had already failed, resulted in 2 huge write-downs totaling $5.4 Billion US, Heins had been fired, the company had been put up for sale, were unable to find a buyer, and was in such a bad financial state that they had to borrow $1.25 Billion from Fairfax just to survive.

    Not only did BB not have two nickles to rub together for advertising, but they'd already lost all momentum in the enterprise (big corporations like to buy things from companies that are likely to continue to be in that business for a long time, and when you put your company up for sale, and then can't find a buyer, you tend to get removed from the "buy from them" list), and were in free-fall with consumers.

    BB was *supposed* to have gotten all of those things right back for the original BB10 release date of Jan/Feb 2012 - not Feb 2013 when BB10 was actually launched, and certainly not Feb 2014 when 10.2.1 was released. CBK himself made a list of (about 8) things BB *HAD* to get completely right at launch in order for BB10 to have any chance of success. BB failed on every single point - but it really all goes back to Mike refusing to consider anything but BBOS for way, WAY too long. Mike essentially ordered BB to stand on the sidelines and watch Apple, and soon after Google, fly right by BB, all the while trying to convince everyone that their way was wrong and his way was right, and that it wouldn't be long before everyone came crawling back to BB.

    We all know how that worked out.
    09-15-17 07:26 PM
  18. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    By the time 10.2.1 was released, it was already into 2014, and BB10 had already failed, resulted in 2 huge write-downs totaling $5.4 Billion US, Heins had been fired, the company had been put up for sale, were unable to find a buyer, and was in such a bad financial state that they had to borrow $1.25 Billion from Fairfax just to survive.

    Not only did BB not have two nickles to rub together for advertising, but they'd already lost all momentum in the enterprise (big corporations like to buy things from companies that are likely to continue to be in that business for a long time, and when you put your company up for sale, and then can't find a buyer, you tend to get removed from the "buy from them" list), and were in free-fall with consumers.

    BB was *supposed* to have gotten all of those things right back for the original BB10 release date of Jan/Feb 2012 - not Feb 2013 when BB10 was actually launched, and certainly not Feb 2014 when 10.2.1 was released. CBK himself made a list of (about 8) things BB *HAD* to get completely right at launch in order for BB10 to have any chance of success. BB failed on every single point - but it really all goes back to Mike refusing to consider anything but BBOS for way, WAY too long. Mike essentially ordered BB to stand on the sidelines and watch Apple, and soon after Google, fly right by BB, all the while trying to convince everyone that their way was wrong and his way was right, and that it wouldn't be long before everyone came crawling back to BB.

    We all know how that worked out.
    One of the most difficult challenges for a successful business is to disrupt a business model that is throwing off mountains of cash before a competitor does it for you. BlackBerry would have had to start surrendering its BIS revenue for a new approach soon after the iPhone launch, but it wasn't willing/able to do that.

    The same thing brought down Kodak, who had working CCD tech early, but wouldn't disrupt it's lucrative chemical processing business.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    app_Developer likes this.
    09-15-17 07:38 PM
  19. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    That's one thing Steve Jobs understood. He "got" that if he didn't let/force Apple to disrupt its own older products with newer ones (such as, iPads eating into iMac and MacBook sales), that other companies would be happy to do it for him, and then Apple might never get ANY of that revenue back.

    But, yeah, Xerox developed almost everything that was important in computers in the 80s and 90s back in the 70s - but none of it would help sell more copiers or paper management, so they let it all go. Kodak had huge leads in digital cameras, but wouldn't undercut its film developing business. There are plenty of other examples - and they lost tens or hundreds of billions by not disrupting their own legacy businesses. BB rode that same train. And it isn't like no one was aware of the danger - there used to be articles about it in the early 2000s - but at the time, there was no immediate danger, and Mike continued to operate like there never would be, instead of looking ahead for the inevitable. He liked his BBOS, BIS, and BES, and the SAF revenue, and didn't want to hear about anything else. And that is why BB failed.
    09-15-17 07:44 PM
  20. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    That's one thing Steve Jobs understood. He "got" that if he didn't let/force Apple to disrupt its own older products with newer ones (such as, iPads eating into iMac and MacBook sales), that other companies would be happy to do it for him, and then Apple might never get ANY of that revenue back.

    But, yeah, Xerox developed almost everything that was important in computers in the 80s and 90s back in the 70s - but none of it would help sell more copiers or paper management, so they let it all go. Kodak had huge leads in digital cameras, but wouldn't undercut its film developing business. There are plenty of other examples - and they lost tens or hundreds of billions by not disrupting their own legacy businesses. BB rode that same train. And it isn't like no one was aware of the danger - there used to be articles about it in the early 2000s - but at the time, there was no immediate danger, and Mike continued to operate like there never would be, instead of looking ahead for the inevitable. He liked his BBOS, BIS, and BES, and the SAF revenue, and didn't want to hear about anything else. And that is why BB failed.
    Exactly. If they were not going to disrupt their business, they should have had the good sense to simply reduce expenses and rake in the cash from BIS, harvest the business, distribute the billions in profit to shareholders, and wind down the business.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    09-15-17 08:13 PM
  21. howarmat's Avatar
    have a read....i think it will open some eyes for some of you lol

    https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/15/1...ures-nostalgia
    app_Developer and donnation like this.
    09-15-17 10:16 PM
  22. Bogdan Tudor Dan's Avatar
    It doesn’t matter where you are from. If they would have done the same marketing in Europe the devices would have failed. They were half baked, but ridden phones at launch with no apps and terrible cameras. People had already moved on from Blackberry. Those are just the facts.
    You could be right, I was just saying they didn't have a good marketing as Apple has.



    Posted via CB10
    09-16-17 12:36 AM
  23. donnation's Avatar
    You could be right, I was just saying they didn't have a good marketing as Apple has.



    Posted via CB10
    I won't argue with you there. In fact I think that most people would agree that their marketing is/was/always has been awful.

    Any time a company has a commercial with a woman that says "I respond to over 1000 emails a day, try doing that with a touchscreen." And then you're very next phone is a touchscreen, something isn't right. Forget about the fact that it would be impossible for her to even respond to 1000 emails per day.
    09-16-17 02:47 AM
  24. YesAndNo's Avatar
    BB10 is simply the best Os!

    Posted via CB10
    09-16-17 03:59 AM
  25. johnny_bravo72's Avatar
    BB10 is simply the best Os!

    Posted via CB10
    Was.
    09-16-17 04:25 AM
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