12-30-17 02:20 PM
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  1. cbvinh's Avatar
    I'm sorry, but you're wrong.

    Jolla’s Sailfish OS is now compatible with Android apps and hardware - The Latest Gadget News and Reviews - GadgetNerdly

    Jolla Sailfish started running Apk files on September 16th 2013.


    https://m.crackberry.com/blackberry-...-os-developers

    BlackBerry released 10.2.1 beta to developers on November 15th 2013.


    BB10 couldn't run Android apps until months after Jolla Sailfish could do it. Honestly I don't think BlackBerry would have ever allowed apk files on BlackBerry 10 if it weren't for Jolla doing it first.
    Um... BB10 could run Android apps, but they had to be repackaged, as you've mentioned. 10.2.1 allowed direct apk install. September to November isn't "months after", unless you mean public hands, in which case the September announcement was just that, an announcement, not release to the public.

    BlackBerry's motivation to allow direct apk install wasn't because they saw Jolla doing it "first". They needed more apps... quickly. They already had the Android Runtime, going back to the PlayBook.
    09-13-17 03:07 PM
  2. JordiVC's Avatar
    I hope Apple copy the BlackBerry HUB

    Posted via CB10
    09-13-17 03:36 PM
  3. JordiVC's Avatar
    And virtual keyword

    Posted via CB10
    09-13-17 03:37 PM
  4. Witmen's Avatar
    Um... BB10 could run Android apps, but they had to be repackaged, as you've mentioned. 10.2.1 allowed direct apk install. September to November isn't "months after", unless you mean public hands, in which case the September announcement was just that, an announcement, not release to the public.

    BlackBerry's motivation to allow direct apk install wasn't because they saw Jolla doing it "first". They needed more apps... quickly. They already had the Android Runtime, going back to the PlayBook.
    Once repackaged they were no longer Android apps though. They were BlackBerry apps. A bar file isn't the same thing as an apk file. Believe me I know I converted literally hundreds of apks to bars back in those days.

    Jolla announced it first, and they released it officially to end users first. Jolla Sailfish users were using Android apps, including even the Google Play Store officially back in late November of 2013. Long before the feature ever left the developer only beta on BlackBerry 10.

    I remember users on this forum were throwing a fit over it and disappointed that BlackBerry had let Jolla pass them by.

    Of course they were also claiming that Jolla had copied BB10 even though Sailfish is just an official continuation of MeeGo. Lol

    To your last point, BlackBerry could have always allowed Apk files to run natively on the PlayBook and BB10. I've met and spoke with Alec Saunders about this very topic. He told me face to face that they themselves put in the restrictions that required the apps to be converted to bar files. If they just "needed more apps", why didn't they remove the bar file requirement sooner? Why did they wait for Sailfish to come along and do it first?

    I think a lot of it has to do with they wanted someone else to do it before them so they didn't have to tick off Google by themselves. Like Alec himself said "we only run BlackBerry apps, so there isn't much Google can do to stop it". I think Jolla removed some fears BlackBerry had about potential backlash from Google.
    09-13-17 03:40 PM
  5. Bogdan Tudor Dan's Avatar
    Always makes me laugh when I see people complain of other companies copying BB10. When I look back on my time with BB10 I honestly can't think of anything about it that wasn't already available on other platforms.

    The UI is a direct copy of Meego Harmattan. The swipe down notifications panel and quick reply were from Android. The Hub was from BlackBerry OS. The gestures were from WebOS. Even the piggybacking off of Android by running it's apps was done first by Jolla Sailfish. BB10 to me always felt like a "me too" OS and never felt like a true BlackBerry. My KEYone feels more like a BlackBerry than any of my BB10 devices.
    I agree with all you said except the last part. What does the keyone more like a BlackBerry? Android? It's an Android device with a pkb and some BlackBerry apps.

    Posted via CB10
    09-13-17 04:01 PM
  6. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    I agree with all you said except the last part. What does the keyone more like a BlackBerry? Android? It's an Android device with a pkb and some BlackBerry apps.

    Posted via CB10
    You just said it, the PKB...
    09-13-17 04:09 PM
  7. donnation's Avatar
    Its honestly surprising to me that so many in this thread think that BB came up with these things that they are claiming Apple copied. Have you ever used any other device? People claim that Apple are blind sheep but this thread is proof positive that there are some people in here that think BB came up with every smartphone concept. In reality, what they did was make inexpensive web and email with BBOS. Everything else they've done is just a rehash or built upon what others have done. I'm not saying Apple doesn't do the same thing, but please get a clue. BB hasn't innovated anything in years, and that includes the hub, which was around before BB's in different variations.
    09-13-17 04:24 PM
  8. Bogdan Tudor Dan's Avatar
    You just said it, the PKB...
    Clasic has apkb, Passport has a pkb, Q10 has a pkb, Q5 has a pkb. These are all BB10 devices.

    Posted via CB10
    09-13-17 04:41 PM
  9. cbvinh's Avatar
    Once repackaged they were no longer Android apps though. They were BlackBerry apps. A bar file isn't the same thing as an apk file. Believe me I know I converted literally hundreds of apks to bars back in those days.

    Jolla announced it first, and they released it officially to end users first. Jolla Sailfish users were using Android apps, including even the Google Play Store officially back in late November of 2013. Long before the feature ever left the developer only beta on BlackBerry 10.

    I remember users on this forum were throwing a fit over it and disappointed that BlackBerry had let Jolla pass them by.

    Of course they were also claiming that Jolla had copied BB10 even though Sailfish is just an official continuation of MeeGo. Lol

    To your last point, BlackBerry could have always allowed Apk files to run natively on the PlayBook and BB10. I've met and spoke with Alec Saunders about this very topic. He told me face to face that they themselves put in the restrictions that required the apps to be converted to bar files. If they just "needed more apps", why didn't they remove the bar file requirement sooner? Why did they wait for Sailfish to come along and do it first?

    I think a lot of it has to do with they wanted someone else to do it before them so they didn't have to tick off Google by themselves. Like Alec himself said "we only run BlackBerry apps, so there isn't much Google can do to stop it". I think Jolla removed some fears BlackBerry had about potential backlash from Google.
    I don't know enough about the internals of apk vs bar, but for Android apps, I can't imagine a converted bar file being any more than a wrapper around the apk. If it wasn't, what's the point of an Android Runtime if they could convert apk code into native BlackBerry API bar files?

    Are you sure about Jolla using the official Google Play Store? At the time, I recall them getting around Google by using other stores, the same ones BB10 users gravitated to because those apps were already vetted for not using certain Google API's.

    Jolla continued from MeeGo, but the Android Runtime part wasn't in MeeGo, unlike PlayBook OS into BB10, where PlayBook OS already had the Android Runtime.

    I think they didn't want to remove the restriction earlier because they still thought they could grow their own app store. They could monetize that - not so much if people went to Android app stores. Further, while Android apps could run, they weren't always 100%, so letting the general public access to potentially broken apps didn't seem like a good idea.

    I don't think Jolla played a role in BlackBerry's decision making to allow direct Android apk's. Legally, between Jolla and BlackBerry, BlackBerry would have a target on their back as they were directly competing with Google... and have money. Jolla's move didn't remove those fears.
    09-13-17 04:43 PM
  10. gebco's Avatar
    Sigh. As I stumbled across a couple videos showing the iPhone gestures, I realized how much I still miss the BB10 UI. Not enough to go back mind you. Nor enough to buy an iPhone. But damn those gestures just became so second nature and fluid.
    mapperav likes this.
    09-13-17 07:59 PM
  11. Uzi's Avatar
    Sigh. As I stumbled across a couple videos showing the iPhone gestures, I realized how much I still miss the BB10 UI. Not enough to go back mind you. Nor enough to buy an iPhone. But damn those gestures just became so second nature and fluid.
    The iPhone looks tempting but not the price
    09-13-17 08:27 PM
  12. G_Unit MVP's Avatar
    Nice (and fair) quick view from Mr. Mobile:

    madh263362 and Fret Madden like this.
    09-13-17 09:11 PM
  13. DaedalusIcarusHelios's Avatar
    Why couldn't BlackBerry have brought BB10 gestures to it's Android implementation? Instead, the next BlackBerry branded all-touch is supposed to have a home button. Now that's ironic.
    09-13-17 10:37 PM
  14. gebco's Avatar
    The iPhone looks tempting but not the price
    Even if it was cheaper, it doesn't meet my needs. No file manager. No native cross platform sharing such as bluetooth file or photo sharing. Apple really only plays nice with Apple.
    09-13-17 10:55 PM
  15. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Even if it was cheaper, it doesn't meet my needs. No file manager. No native cross platform sharing such as bluetooth file or photo sharing. Apple really only plays nice with Apple.
    I appreciate that some folks feel great about Apple, but I wouldn't pay $200 for the X. It just doesn't work for me.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    09-13-17 11:04 PM
  16. SDTRMG's Avatar
    It's important to remember that iOS itself was never that impressive.

    Apple's big innovations were hardware design, gesture navigation, and the app store business model that they based on the iTunes partnership with the music industry.

    Those were huge, game-changing innovations, and BlackBerry never had any similar "magic" to bring to the table.

    What BlackBerry did have was a team of great UX designers focused on the way email and phones were used by business users in an Enterprise setting. BB10 was a very efficient OS with great BlackBerry native apps for a very limited set of applications.

    It wasn't enough to challenge Apple in the consumer space, but it was very, very good in its own limited way. I hope Apple and Android continues to improve to the point where I won't miss BB10 anymore!

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    I agree with this, bb10 was to late had BlackBerry not miss the boat and released it during the iPhone 4ish days they would be in a good spot today.
    09-13-17 11:22 PM
  17. EFats's Avatar
    Once repackaged they were no longer Android apps though. They were BlackBerry apps. A bar file isn't the same thing as an apk file. Believe me I know I converted literally hundreds of apks to bars back in those days.
    ....
    To your last point, BlackBerry could have always allowed Apk files to run natively on the PlayBook and BB10. I've met and spoke with Alec Saunders about this very topic. He told me face to face that they themselves put in the restrictions that required the apps to be converted to bar files. If they just "needed more apps", why didn't they remove the bar file requirement sooner? Why did they wait for Sailfish to come along and do it first?
    Well, maybe they knew a bit of history. Letting APK run unaltered on BlackBerry? That would've given BlackBerry a boatload of apps, but there would be an unfortunate side effect.

    Go way back when there was a desktop OS from IBM called OS/2. In many ways in was technically superior to Windows 3.1 (not hard!). It also had the ability to run DOS and Windows 3.1 apps directly, near seamlessly and sometimes they ran even better than on the "native" systems. You even had more control over how the apps ran in some ways. Sound familiar?

    Ah well the problem was that since OS/2 ran DOS & Windows apps so well, there was absolutely no incentive to develop a native version of the apps. So then they ran into the app issue we are so familiar with nowadays.

    Imagine if BB10 ran Android apps directly and perfectly. Why would anyone spend the effort developing a BB10 native app? I suspect the end would be the same but even faster.

    At least with a BAR I suppose there was a bit of a hurdle and some implication that perhaps an Android app would be sub-optimal on BB10



    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk
    09-13-17 11:24 PM
  18. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    Gestures do not magically conjure up developers, carrier support, and a user base.
    Apparantly Pierre Trudeau's middle digit gesture did just that very thing a few decades back. I know quite bizarre. So in the magical world of marketing dreams do come true...but only sometimes.
    09-13-17 11:32 PM
  19. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    Warp speed ahead for OS/2! It was far superior to Windows in a zillion ways (especially the DOS support) .but IBM jettisoned the warp core cause it was costing boatloads apparantly to try to market it successfully....and they had other fish to fry at the same time...so the big shots killed it off pretty early. Who's to say it was a wise decision long term for IBM? Don't know, mabye never will. Good analogy to BB10 though.
    09-13-17 11:40 PM
  20. Carjackd's Avatar
    Now Mr. Chen take a seat and learn how to do a real marketing campaign to sell millions of devices using an idea you developed.
    Chen does run marketing campaigns for devices, BlackBerry Mobile does
    09-13-17 11:51 PM
  21. Carjackd's Avatar
    And for a tag price of 1000 usd.
    Should be under 500
    i_plod_an_dr_void likes this.
    09-13-17 11:58 PM
  22. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    I smell an opportunity here for Blackberry. They can repackage the Leap and claim it has some of the Latest Apple features at a fraction of the cost.
    G_Unit MVP likes this.
    09-13-17 11:58 PM
  23. Carjackd's Avatar
    Gestures do not magically conjure up developers, carrier support, and a user base.
    I have a gesture that usually works for me
    i_plod_an_dr_void likes this.
    09-13-17 11:59 PM
  24. Carjackd's Avatar
    I smell an opportunity here for Blackberry. They can repackage the Leap and claim it has some of the Latest Apple features at a fraction of the cost.
    They just need some apps to go with it
    09-13-17 11:59 PM
  25. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    I smell an opportunity here for Blackberry. They can repackage the Leap and claim it has some of the Latest Apple features at a fraction of the cost.
    Quick dust off BB10 and slap it on a newly manufactured device!
    09-13-17 11:59 PM
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