04-22-18 08:24 PM
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  1. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Thank you. No where in my post was I comparing BlackBerry to anyone.. you are the first to pick this up.

    Posted via CB10
    I didn't write that in response to your post. Some one else compared the company revenues.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    09-20-17 03:06 PM
  2. app_Developer's Avatar
    Good question. To the best of my knowledge, they are popular in Asia, they are just starting to gain recognition in North America.

    I believe their hardware is at par with most higher quality phones with a fraction of the price.

    I honestly think price and quality of phones that are at par will be Apples Achilles heal. Why pay over $1000 for a phone that has an apple Symbol when I can get an at par product for a third of the cost.

    As a father of 3 boys. I bought 3 Samsung s outright at Costco in the summer for less then one apple phone

    Posted via CB10
    Because the Apple stuff just works. And if it doesn't, you walk into a nearby Apple Store and walk out with a new one. Most things with Apple are very easy.

    I pay for Macs, iPhones, iPads and Google WiFi for my family and parents and in-laws because I don't want to be our tech support. If I can buy good tech for everyone, and pay a little extra to have it all work without much fuss, then that's worth it to me. Even for myself, I just want everything to work.

    That's Apple's market. It's not the majority of the market, but it is a very lucrative segment and Apple does very well there. And they've done well there for quite a few years now.
    Troy Tiscareno likes this.
    09-20-17 03:37 PM
  3. bobshine's Avatar
    Read my post..

    Thank you for proving my point...

    Walkman. -People would buy portable tape players from other manufacturers and call them walkmans

    Kleenex - my nose is running, pass me a Kleenex.. instead of tissue..

    Xerox- did you Xerox that paper? Instead of copy...

    What I was getting at was that many people don't do research on what they are buying. Apple is a marketing company selling mobile phones. People hear the buzz, see their amazing commercials and just blindly buy it.

    Their sales numbers have the largest penetration in the North American Market not worldwide. People are paying a premium just to say they have an apple device. It has become a status symbol as was BlackBerry less then a decade ago. (when their share prices where above $120 per share).

    They are the most popular manufacturer in North America and THIRD largest worldwide. (behind Samsung and Huawei.). Huawei just passed apple last month but will fall again to third once apple launches the new devices.

    https://www.idc.com/promo/smartphone...t-share/vendor

    PeriodSamsung AppleHuawei
    2016Q123.8%15.4%8.4%
    2016Q222.7%11.7%9.3%
    2016Q320.9%12.5%9.3%
    2016Q418.0%18.2%10.5%
    2017Q123.3%14.7%10.0%


    Everything has a lifespan. Yes apple has a loyal following but I question for how long. North Americans tend to jump ship after a while to the next status symbol device.

    So, my other point is. When apple users talk about valuable companies, BlackBerry users where there a few years ago as where Nokia prior to them... One day in our lifetime, their products will be replaced by other manufacturers and the value of apple will lower..

    Irony is that Apple is putting all their apples into one basket. Iphones..

    Apple is an ok device with great marketing is what I'm saying... Unless you buy into their complete line of products, it's not really that efficient..
    But that's another conversation...

    Posted via CB10
    You may be right that Apple rely too much of their iPhone that’s why they are trying to divest from it by offering subscription based music, buying contents, Apple watch...

    But Apple isn’t a marketing company! They do research and lots of it. They have the fastest mobile CPU out there and maybe the fastest mobile GPU too.

    And they have a well defined target market and solely concentrate on them. Maybe you like to compare specs and prices. But there’s maybe 30 to 40% of population that have no idea what RAM is. Or GPU or any or that jargon. What they care is that the device works.

    So Apple sees that and sells an experience. You ever saw their ads? They don’t sell the phone, the camera, the amount of RAM. They sell souvenirs, healthy lifestyle.

    The iPhone 6 to 8 is probably the most ugly phone on the market in premium devices and people still buy them by the millions cause they don’t buy the phone! They buy the experience.

    And they are loyal to it. Spec shoppers will just compare and buy the highest specs for lowest price. No loyalty there... you just said it. You compare and choose. Apple doesn’t care about those customers.

    Why do you think Coca Cola lasted so long as a brand? They don’t sell the taste of the drink! It’s actually not that good. They sell the image and the lifestyle.

    That’s where Kodak, BB, Sony (sort of cause they were very good once upon if time), and whoever you name failed cause they sell a product.

    I am not saying that Apple will continue to succeed. What I am saying is that their customers are not ignoring and just buy into their marketing. They are VP, CEO, Lawyers... that just want a phone that works and don’t care about all that tech stuff.
    09-20-17 04:05 PM
  4. app_Developer's Avatar
    Apple is really good at marketing. There is no question about that. But that's not all. They are really good at design. Really great at hardware and software engineering. They are excellent at supply chain. They are really good at support and service.

    As companies go, they are the complete package. This is why they are worth $800B

    It's absurd to think that they just fool people into buying average products at high prices. Their segment really isn't that stupid.
    stlabrat likes this.
    09-20-17 04:36 PM
  5. bobshine's Avatar
    Apple is really good at marketing. There is no question about that. But that's not all. They are really good at design. Really great at hardware and software engineering. They are excellent at supply chain. They are really good at support and service.

    As companies go, they are the complete package. This is why they are worth $800B

    It's absurd to think that they just fool people into buying average products at high prices. Their segment really isn't that stupid.
    Finally someone that understands!

    Also... people that can afford 1000$ plus iPhones are usually not stupid. They are CEOs, lawyers, doctors. They just don’t go online and compare RAM or how many billions of pixels the screen has.

    They just want results. And Apple sells the result.

    That’s also why Apple isn’t that strong in the asian market. The culture is different there... customers buy specs and price in Asia.
    09-20-17 04:43 PM
  6. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Apple is really good at marketing. There is no question about that. But that's not all. They are really good at design. Really great at hardware and software engineering. They are excellent at supply chain. They are really good at support and service.

    As companies go, they are the complete package. This is why they are worth $800B

    It's absurd to think that they just fool people into buying average products at high prices. Their segment really isn't that stupid.
    There is no question, from a market strategy perspective, that Apple is the only real winner in mobile hardware. They have successfully catered to the folks who desire a sense of luxury in a relatively uncomplicated product. As a result, they make most of the profits.

    But, it's also important to acknowledge that most buyers of smart phones don't appear to want an Apple device. Their market share is small, and declining.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    09-20-17 04:53 PM
  7. app_Developer's Avatar
    There is no question, from a market strategy perspective, that Apple is the only real winner in mobile hardware. They have successfully catered to the folks who desire a sense of luxury in a relatively uncomplicated product. As a result, they make most of the profits.

    But, it's also important to acknowledge that most buyers of smart phones don't appear to want an Apple device. Their market share is small, and declining.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    Don't want or can't afford the product (some blend of the two) That's true for all high end products in every industry ever.

    Apple is definitely in a niche market. I don't own as much AAPL now for that reason. But they do make an enormous amount of $$ in their niche. If you're going to pick a niche, that's a good one.
    09-20-17 04:59 PM
  8. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Don't want or can't afford the product (some blend of the two) That's true for all high end products in every industry ever.

    Apple is definitely in a niche market. I don't own as much AAPL now for that reason. But they do make an enormous amount of $$ in their niche. If you're going to pick a niche, that's a good one.
    Yes. My opinion about iPhone is, "best business strategy, lowest common denominator usability."

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    09-20-17 05:07 PM
  9. app_Developer's Avatar
    Yes. My opinion about iPhone is, "best business strategy, lowest common denominator usability."

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    I think it's a bit hard to argue LCD when they have the most powerful SoC's in the market, really great software, beautiful warm screens, all the best apps, high quality integrations, great support, etc.

    I think they make high quality, expensive products best suited for people who aren't really tinkerers. Or don't want to tinker on their phones.

    I'm a tinkerer, but I prefer to tinker on my business or my cars or other things. I just want my phone to work brilliantly with no fuss with all the services/apps I feel like using. I'll pay a couple hundred extra for that. That's their market.
    09-20-17 05:35 PM
  10. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    I think it's a bit hard to argue LCD when they have the most powerful SoC's in the market, really great software, beautiful warm screens, all the best apps, high quality integrations, great support, etc.

    I think they make high quality, expensive products best suited for people who aren't really tinkerers. Or don't want to tinker on their phones.

    I'm a tinkerer, but I prefer to tinker on my business or my cars or other things. I just want my phone to work brilliantly with no fuss with all the services/apps I feel like using. I'll pay a couple hundred extra for that. That's their market.
    My experience with the iPhone crowd, is generally overindulged fat little girls and or pretty status seeking girls with obnoxious tongues, gossiping and slandering each other and everyone else for fun on social networks, in a way no inhouse school-yard shaming and cat-fighting ever did. As to what the rest of the phone does, they could care less. But boy do they harass mom or dad for the latest model, like their year-old iphone is last year's running shoe with holes in it.

    Google android on the other hand is a hodge podge of geeks created on a leash from mega-corps trying to look folksy,geeky and democratic and home-made, but it really ain't. Basically 10cent phones with a 5 minute shelf life....with the ever-watchful eye peering down at you and tracking everything you do. Privacy? What is that? It's a fairy tale invented by some Western clown who also babbles on about Human rights and the like. Like what you do every living moment is ONLY their BUSINESS and their's alone...and not yours.

    (Just to be fair to all for the BlackBerry bb10 bashing on this bb10 thread, I think that counter-balances the hyperbole reasonably well. And just to top the cake I'll add: Blackberry: What you do on your phone, is none of our business, just don't try to crack it, unless you're a brick-layer)
    stlabrat likes this.
    09-20-17 07:25 PM
  11. palewhiteninja's Avatar
    It's really ingenious/insidious how they made the specs on the iphonex identical to the iPhone 8. It adds a subliminal value to the cheaper models without cannibalising any possible sales. It's just overall very forward thinking. So many of their decisions are ruthless nickel and diming schemes like accessories, $80 to use quick charge etc) but man is it ever smart from a financial gain perspective
    09-20-17 09:32 PM
  12. app_Developer's Avatar
    It's really ingenious/insidious how they made the specs on the iphonex identical to the iPhone 8. It adds a subliminal value to the cheaper models without cannibalising any possible sales. It's just overall very forward thinking. So many of their decisions are ruthless nickel and diming schemes like accessories, $80 to use quick charge etc) but man is it ever smart from a financial gain perspective
    It's also helpful for developers to have the same SoC in the 8 and X. Now if developers take advantage of the neural engine and the additional hp, that will work with a larger set of users each month.
    09-20-17 09:46 PM
  13. donnation's Avatar
    My experience with the iPhone crowd, is generally overindulged fat little girls and or pretty status seeking girls with obnoxious tongues, gossiping and slandering each other and everyone else for fun on social networks, in a way no inhouse school-yard shaming and cat-fighting ever did. As to what the rest of the phone does, they could care less. But boy do they harass mom or dad for the latest model, like their year-old iphone is last year's running shoe with holes in it.

    Google android on the other hand is a hodge podge of geeks created on a leash from mega-corps trying to look folksy,geeky and democratic and home-made, but it really ain't. Basically 10cent phones with a 5 minute shelf life....with the ever-watchful eye peering down at you and tracking everything you do. Privacy? What is that? It's a fairy tale invented by some Western clown who also babbles on about Human rights and the like. Like what you do every living moment is ONLY their BUSINESS and their's alone...and not yours.

    (Just to be fair to all for the BlackBerry bb10 bashing on this bb10 thread, I think that counter-balances the hyperbole reasonably well. And just to top the cake I'll add: Blackberry: What you do on your phone, is none of our business, just don't try to crack it, unless you're a brick-layer)
    Yawn.
    MikeX74 likes this.
    09-21-17 06:27 AM
  14. psskid's Avatar
    Finally someone that understands!

    Also... people that can afford 1000$ plus iPhones are usually not stupid. They are CEOs, lawyers, doctors. They just don’t go online and compare RAM or how many billions of pixels the screen has.

    They just want results. And Apple sells the result.

    That’s also why Apple isn’t that strong in the asian market. The culture is different there... customers buy specs and price in Asia.

    Most CEO of companies and most employees don't buy their own phones, they are issued to them by the company. Many companies are switching to BYOD but that is proving to be a problem with some companies because of device content Control and device liability. (who pays for the device if it's broken performing company duties ?)

    I'm obviously not a fan of apple, never have been, I just don't like the OS plain and simple, it has nothing to do with their evaluation as a company, the look or feel of the phone or even specs, it's the OS, I've tried it. Can't stand it. It actually makes me go nuts using it. I've thrown it across the room once because it's not efficient to use.

    I realize that BB10 is fading out, but for productivity, can't beat the OS.

    I run two small business and coach a a rep hockey team. The hub integration and calendar using multiple email address makes IOS unusable to me.

    The limitations IOS has with media transfer and lack of an SD card is also a pain. There are people I deal with that use IOS and they can not receive or send media via Bluetooth or WiFi direct. For example, during a hockey tournament, I was able to take some photos of the team warmly up, took some videos of the post game celebration, I was able to transfer the media to the coaches and parents that had BB10 and Android. IOS coaches and parents... no go. Can't..

    They need air drop. Or some kind of data service to get it.

    People in Asia do look at specs more then we do in North America because they have options and want the best bang for their money .

    I was with a client last week that Just moved to North America from China. He had an Android phone I've never seen before. I asked him what it was and if would get a new one now that he's in North America. He laughed at me and said that his phone had better performance then his wife's IPhone and was way cheaper. It works here so he will just keep it.

    Bottom line. Yes apple is simple to use for some people, if you have 1 email and just text. But if you need to manage more then 2-3-4 emails, Apple becomes a toy..

    OK now. Let's start the apple defense. Lol.

    Posted via CB10
    09-21-17 08:44 AM
  15. bobshine's Avatar
    Most CEO of companies and most employees don't buy their own phones, they are issued to them by the company. Many companies are switching to BYOD but that is proving to be a problem with some companies because of device content Control and device liability. (who pays for the device if it's broken performing company duties ?)

    I'm obviously not a fan of apple, never have been, I just don't like the OS plain and simple, it has nothing to do with their evaluation as a company, the look or feel of the phone or even specs, it's the OS, I've tried it. Can't stand it. It actually makes me go nuts using it. I've thrown it across the room once because it's not efficient to use.

    I realize that BB10 is fading out, but for productivity, can't beat the OS.

    I run two small business and coach a a rep hockey team. The hub integration and calendar using multiple email address makes IOS unusable to me.

    The limitations IOS has with media transfer and lack of an SD card is also a pain. There are people I deal with that use IOS and they can not receive or send media via Bluetooth or WiFi direct. For example, during a hockey tournament, I was able to take some photos of the team warmly up, took some videos of the post game celebration, I was able to transfer the media to the coaches and parents that had BB10 and Android. IOS coaches and parents... no go. Can't..

    They need air drop. Or some kind of data service to get it.

    People in Asia do look at specs more then we do in North America because they have options and want the best bang for their money .

    I was with a client last week that Just moved to North America from China. He had an Android phone I've never seen before. I asked him what it was and if would get a new one now that he's in North America. He laughed at me and said that his phone had better performance then his wife's IPhone and was way cheaper. It works here so he will just keep it.

    Bottom line. Yes apple is simple to use for some people, if you have 1 email and just text. But if you need to manage more then 2-3-4 emails, Apple becomes a toy..

    OK now. Let's start the apple defense. Lol.

    Posted via CB10
    Not sure what you’re talking about managing multiple emails on iOS. Configuration is automated and multiple emails are all managed through a consolidated inbox.

    New contacts, phone numbers and addresses are automatically suggested to update phone book.

    The biggest issue is that they don’t fully support IMAP, but that’s not a problem with the corporate world.

    And the reason why big corporations choose iPhones is that it’s so much easier to secure and to manage, kind of how BB was.

    Again, what I am arguing is that iOS is not good for people who want to customize, to see how much memory they have available, to compare their specs with their friends.

    It’s a device for people that just buy the result. That’s why they advertise a picture, not a camera. Or people running, not a watch.

    And there is a whole market segments of non tech, non “geeky” people that are really really smart, but in their own field. They just want something that Apple has already set up for them.

    So they buy an iPhone, Apple TV, Earpod, iPad... and plug them in and magic, they work.

    So if we get back to topic: yes their gesture are oddly similar to BB10. But there’s a huge difference: BB didn’t give a compelling reason for people to use gesture. Whereas apple with iPhone X has an Edge to edge to edge to edge full screen. That’s why BB failed with their gesture push and Apple might finally succeed (remember they introduced gestures a long time ago but not many used them)
    09-21-17 11:36 AM
  16. early2bed's Avatar
    One big difference between the BB10 and the iPhone X is that future iPhone users aren’t going to be asking for a trackball, tool belt, or physical keyboard. BlackBerry’s failure to establish a consistent UI identity and caving into what the user thinks that they need is part of its huge failure. Remember when John Chen talked to all the customers and heard that they wanted the Classic?
    09-21-17 12:52 PM
  17. DreadPirateRegan's Avatar
    One big difference between the BB10 and the iPhone X is that future iPhone users aren’t going to be asking for a trackball, tool belt, or physical keyboard. BlackBerry’s failure to establish a consistent UI identity and caving into what the user thinks that they need is part of its huge failure. Remember when John Chen talked to all the customers and heard that they wanted the Classic?
    With that said, they have an identity now, yet in a saturated market beings the only android with a physical keyboard? I still think they did have some bad marketing. Also, how come amazon was able to get up to lollipop "forked" runtime yet BlackBerry had so much trouble. I wonder..

    I share this web page: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_OS from QBrowser Pro

    From Gingerbread to Lollipop..

    I never heard anyone say they didn't try.

     Passport SE  -Working wiDe!...
    09-21-17 01:08 PM
  18. app_Developer's Avatar
    Not sure what you’re talking about managing multiple emails on iOS. Configuration is automated and multiple emails are all managed through a consolidated inbox.
    Yeah, I don't get it either. I have multiple email and calendar accounts on my iPhone. I can view them as one inbox when I want, or I can view just one box if I want to focus on one account for a while. I'm not understanding why people are finding this difficult on any modern phone?
    09-21-17 02:08 PM
  19. app_Developer's Avatar
    The limitations IOS has with media transfer and lack of an SD card is also a pain. There are people I deal with that use IOS and they can not receive or send media via Bluetooth or WiFi direct. For example, during a hockey tournament, I was able to take some photos of the team warmly up, took some videos of the post game celebration, I was able to transfer the media to the coaches and parents that had BB10 and Android. IOS coaches and parents... no go. Can't..
    It all depends on how you work, I guess. I do not sit around after a football game playing file transfer with the other parents or coaches. Why would I want all their raw footage and unedited pics anyway?! That's a lot of wasted time/space.

    Instead, we play/watch the game and then some time later I upload my highlights to teamsnap and I see what the other moms and dads have done. The coaching staff also upload aerial all-22 highlights there as they review the game.

    That works perfectly fine on any device on my own schedule and seems a lot better than walking around the stadium playing sneakernet in 2017, doesn't it? Teamsnap (which is what we use around here) keeps everything organized, keeps me from having to wade through a lot of garbage, and allows me to upload good edited content so other people aren't wading through tons of my own raw footage.

    Think about the objective: the objective is not to share files. The real objective is for me to collect good pictures and video from my children's sports for our memories and for us to share with others.
    09-21-17 02:18 PM
  20. cbvinh's Avatar
    With that said, they have an identity now, yet in a saturated market beings the only android with a physical keyboard? I still think they did have some bad marketing. Also, how come amazon was able to get up to lollipop "forked" runtime yet BlackBerry had so much trouble. I wonder..

    I share this web page: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_OS from QBrowser Pro

    From Gingerbread to Lollipop..

    I never heard anyone say they didn't try.
    They did a big marketing push for BB10, but didn't really know how to do it effectively - Superbowl commercial, Alicia Keys, etc., then put the company on sale, which threw company confidence (for themselves, business and consumers) into disarray, then switched up strategy completely (hardware to software). So... more than some bad marketing.

    Amazon forked and they can't run all the Android apps, like those that use Google Services. BlackBerry has already been down that road... It's not a matter of ability but what the end result would be, which is still a lack of key apps which would hinder adoption.
    09-21-17 02:25 PM
  21. psskid's Avatar
    It all depends on how you work, I guess. I do not sit around after a football game playing file transfer with the other parents or coaches. Why would I want all their raw footage and unedited pics anyway?! That's a lot of wasted time/space.

    Instead, we play/watch the game and then some time later I upload my highlights to teamsnap and I see what the other moms and dads have done. The coaching staff also upload aerial all-22 highlights there as they review the game.

    That works perfectly fine on any device on my own schedule and seems a lot better than walking around the stadium playing sneakernet in 2017, doesn't it? Teamsnap (which is what we use around here) keeps everything organized, keeps me from having to wade through a lot of garbage, and allows me to upload good edited content so other people aren't wading through tons of my own raw footage.

    Think about the objective: the objective is not to share files. The real objective is for me to collect good pictures and video from my children's sports for our memories and for us to share with others.
    Lol. I'm getting our team manager to crush Teamsnap....garbage. All the coaches and some parents hate it. We use Hudl for video coaching.

    Point is that I'm not going to go home, edit a picture or video, download it to an app just for a parent to see it. It's much easier to link the phones and quickly dump the data to each other. Much more efficient.. only takes minutes.... parents use it all the time


    Posted via CB10
    09-21-17 02:29 PM
  22. app_Developer's Avatar
    Also, how come amazon was able to get up to lollipop "forked" runtime yet BlackBerry had so much trouble. I wonder..
    FireOS is a fork of the complete Android stack from the kernel up (including the kernel). That's a lot easier to maintain than what BB did.

    From a legal/risk perspective, Amazon is not a member of the OHA, so that's another advantage that Amazon has.
    09-21-17 02:30 PM
  23. DreadPirateRegan's Avatar
    FireOS is a fork of the complete Android stack from the kernel up (including the kernel). That's a lot easier to maintain than what BB did.

    From a legal/risk perspective, Amazon is not a member of the OHA, so that's another advantage that Amazon has.
    Wow, what do they gain by being a member besides limitations? I did not know this, for anyone else who doesn't..

    I share this web page: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Handset_Alliance from QBrowser Pro

     Passport SE  -Working wiDe!...
    09-21-17 02:39 PM
  24. app_Developer's Avatar
    Wow, what do they gain by being a member besides limitations? I did not know this, for anyone else who doesn't...
    What BlackBerry got is access to Google Play.

    Amazon decided not to join the OHA, and what they got instead was a complete failure of their phone strategy. Their phone failed because it didn't have access to Google Play.
    Troy Tiscareno likes this.
    09-21-17 02:43 PM
  25. MikeX74's Avatar
    It is possible that Apple is paying a royalty fee to BlackBerry for the use of its proprietary feature.
    I didn’t realize BlackBerry invented swipe gestures. Please provide a link to the BlackBerry patent for them.
    donnation likes this.
    09-21-17 02:48 PM
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