[tollfeeder]

dbmalloy pretty much summed it up nicely. I can manage most things under 5 moves - try Android for instance, that's true horror.

Posted via CB10

[tollfeeder]

Most people find Android more logical and easy to use. Give a BlackBerry phone to a teenager and ask him to change the wallpaper, for example. Mobile OS should be intuitive and self explanatory. A new BB10 user needs a manual. Nobody wants to read manuals these days.

Because most people know nothing but Android (some iOS) maybe?! Especially teenagers. What's that got to do with "intuitive and self explanatory"? I didn't need a manual for BB10 I just needed a few minutes for the basics but I always wish I had one when I hold an Android device.

Posted via CB10

[vbdwork]

What's that got to do with "intuitive and self explanatory"?

The simple fact that there are hundreds of millions Android users out there who never needed a manual. My daughters learned how to use Android tablet in 15min without any questions. A week later it was loaded with games and apps I don't even know, running 3rd party launcher, has custom notifications, they even changed the default OS animations.

On BB10 you have to know how to do things, the OS doesn't guide you. You have menu of a menu, on one app on left, on another on top, third one has same thing on the right... the whole OS is very inconsistent and the apps are mess because of no standard guidelines for developers. No default back button, no default home. Focus changes all the time. Example - you're on page 3 of your apps and open the Hub with a gesture up and right, then Back gesture (swipe up or to the left) sends you to the active frames, not to page 3 where you started from. This was fixed in 10.3.1 (I think), 2 years after BB10 release.

[a_bateman]

Many people don't realize that bb10 is still a fledgling OS. It's no different then when I purchased my first smartphone, the HTC Hero, except that this is an advanced system from the get go.

Android in its early days and even up to a year ago, when I switch to Blackberry, was still a mess to use. I've done many system repairs, system cleanings and security checks for people I know with Android. Even with IOS. With my BlackBerry I haven't had to do any of that. It's an amazing early system and I can't wait to see what they do with it when it hits the point that Android gets to.

With that said, my first Android phone needed all kinds of keep up and I needed a run down of how to use it effectively. Still I can get much more done in a shorter period then with a newer android. Those whom I've let play with my Z10 love it compared to their android. It takes some getting used to, less then I needed for Android, but definitely well worth it.

Posted via CB10

[vbdwork]

I've done many system repairs, system cleanings and security checks for people I know with Android.

Using Android since Froyo 2.2 and never had to do any "system cleanings", nor "system repairs". Most apps and tools that "clean" and "repair" actually do more harm than good. Your statements are common BS found everywhere on CB without any demonstration of technical knowledge. If it was that bad, it wouldn't be the most popular mobile OS. BB10 as a whole package is so awesome, that as of 2015 I know nobody still using it. Absolutely nobody. I still keep one Z10 to play with. Got rid of older models long time ago.

[tollfeeder]

The simple fact that there are hundreds of millions Android users out there who never needed a manual. My daughters learned how to use Android tablet in 15min without any questions. A week later it was loaded with games and apps I don't even know, running 3rd party launcher, has custom notifications, they even changed the default OS animations.

On BB10 you have to know how to do things, the OS doesn't guide you. You have menu of a menu, on one app on left, on another on top, third one has same thing on the right... the whole OS is very inconsistent and the apps are mess because of no standard guidelines for developers. No default back button, no default home. Focus changes all the time. Example - you're on page 3 of your apps and open the Hub with a gesture up and right, then Back gesture (swipe up or to the left) sends you to the active frames, not to page 3 where you started from. This was fixed in 10.3.1 (I think), 2 years after BB10 release.

So you asked hundreds of millions of Android users whether they needed a manual or not? And BlackBerry users as well? That would settle it. But you daughter as an example would not. As I said I did not need a manual myself and so did others. Actually there are guidelines to be found in BlackBerry's documentation. It's called Cascades for starters. Furthermore I neither miss the back button nor the home one I rather find the gesture driven OS to be a brilliantly (bit borrowed from Nokia) experience.

Posted via CB10

[tollfeeder]

Using Android since Froyo 2.2 and never had to do any "system cleanings", nor "system repairs". Most apps and tools that "clean" and "repair" actually do more harm than good. Your statements are common BS found everywhere on CB without any demonstration of technical knowledge. If it was that bad, it wouldn't be the most popular mobile OS. BB10 as a whole package is so awesome, that as of 2015 I know nobody still using it. Absolutely nobody. I still keep one Z10 to play with. Got rid of older models long time ago.

See - it all comes back to personal preference. So it's all BS now. Ok. And then I just learned that quantity equals quality - nice! You could say the same thing about Microsoft Windows and still some people think it's utter frack.

Posted via CB10

[bzavitz]

No worries. Always willing to help out a fellow BlackBerry owner.

If you already have some groups created, depending on the number of additional contacts you want to add to an existing group, I would do the following:
- Add one contact: Select the contact from the 'Contacts' app, press the 3 dot button (i.e. bottom right), select 'Add to Group,' then pick the group.
- Add multiple contacts: Select the group from the 'Contacts' app, press 'Edit,' press 'Add Contacts,' then select all the contacts you want added.

The second option would be faster for multiple contacts since you can highlight as many contacts to add as you like. However, the first option allows you to select one or more preferred contact methods for the contact you're adding. For example, if you had a contact who had a work number and a personal number, you could add their work number to a work group and their personal number to a different group.

OK, I had found the second method, but was unsure about the first. Once you add the contact to the group, the message on the screen says: "Select one or more contact methods to be used when communicating with this group." That is what made me think the "Contacts" feature was for broadcast lists. So for sure this means "Select one or more contact methods to be used for this particular contact when communicating with this group."?

[vbdwork]

See - it all comes back to personal preference.

Fair enough. Use BB10 and be happy. No comments about other OS needed, especially if you have very limited experience.

So it's all BS now. Ok. And then I just learned that quantity equals quality - nice! You could say the same thing about Microsoft Windows and still some people think it's utter frack.

Some people may think and talk whatever they want. I'm an IT guy, not just a forum fan or a user who doesn't read manuals.

[bzavitz]

Pretty simple.. the more complicated you make something to use.... the more hoops you jump through to use it. Back in the olden days you had a 13 channel dial for TV selection you simply turned the dial to the 3 or 4 channels that were available..... was great as it added to your fitness as there was not remote control...... no couch potatoes back then.,.,,Now you have PVR with hundreds of channels... with option to record......so what would the OP expect.... as we all have different preferences you will never ever please everyone. One person will say it is too complicated ( People coming to BB ) some will say it is too simplistic (your typical Apple user who wants simple )... no... in the long run you will never keep everyone happy... thus whey we have forums like this.. the electronic coffee clutch if you will...

I have no problem with the complexity-- I expected that. But while the BB is highly configurable, it is not so customizable. E.g. one of the excellent features of the Palm was that the keyboard buttons were assignable-- the user could access their particular most-used functions with one or two clicks, by assigning a button and then the arrangement of a menu, if necessary. But . . . I'm gradually learning some work-arounds, and much appreciate the good help here.

[bzavitz]

Many people don't realize that bb10 is still a fledgling OS. It's no different then when I purchased my first smartphone, the HTC Hero, except that this is an advanced system from the get go.

Android in its early days and even up to a year ago, when I switch to Blackberry, was still a mess to use. I've done many system repairs, system cleanings and security checks for people I know with Android. Even with IOS. With my BlackBerry I haven't had to do any of that. It's an amazing early system and I can't wait to see what they do with it when it hits the point that Android gets to.

With that said, my first Android phone needed all kinds of keep up and I needed a run down of how to use it effectively. Still I can get much more done in a shorter period then with a newer android. Those whom I've let play with my Z10 love it compared to their android. It takes some getting used to, less then I needed for Android, but definitely well worth it.

Posted via CB10

Actually, there's no contradiction between your comment and that of "vbdwork" above. RIM was an engineering company, and their engineering is still world class, top-o-the-heap. But their user interface needs some serious improvement.

[ChrisLeNeve]

Things on modern OSes are a lot less focused on productivity for common tasks than they were on the older ones. This includes BB 10 and you would have most of the issues you're dealing with on Android and iOS. It's just not as productive for certain things. If the learning curve is too steep, my advice is to take a Bold 9900 to start with.
For the Alt or Caps lock, you can either hold those buttons for a sec longer or, if you want to go fast, press and hold alt + right shift for caps lock, alt + left shift for alt lock.

[benmhall]

I just migrated to a BB Classic from a 6-year old Palm Treo 650. It certainly is a huge advance technologically-- a beautiful machine with lots of pretty animations-- but from the standpoint of functional utility/UX design I find it very poor in comparison. If I could go back to the Palm I would. Why is everything 5 - 6 moves away, instead of 1 or 2?

SNIP

What am I missing here?

I feel your pain. PalmOS was incredibly efficient, albeit limited. I have a BlackBerry Passport and love it, but honestly, for pure efficiency of PIM functionality, you really can't beat PalmOS. They solved the problem of PIM on day one.

That said, BlackBerry 10 is without a doubt in my mind, the best option of what is currently on the market for a former PalmOS user. It has a lot of very handy shortcuts and features buried deep. I've been using OS 10 almost since release and am still finding shortcuts that have apparently been around for years.

There's a lot of depth to the system. As a long time PalmOS user, I'm sure you'll come to appreciate it. Just stick with it a bit.

(Besides, if you find BlackBerry OS 10 confusing or inefficient, you should try the alternatives. For my uses, they're all much worse. )

[dwisetyoaji]

I have no problem with the complexity-- I expected that. But while the BB is highly configurable, it is not so customizable. E.g. one of the excellent features of the Palm was that the keyboard buttons were assignable-- the user could access their particular most-used functions with one or two clicks, by assigning a button and then the arrangement of a menu, if necessary. But . . . I'm gradually learning some work-arounds, and much appreciate the good help here.

You mean keyboard shortcuts ? I'm sure classic have it. It's under settings.

Posted from CB10 with BlackBerry Z3

[dguy123]

I have no problem with the complexity-- I expected that. But while the BB is highly configurable, it is not so customizable. E.g. one of the excellent features of the Palm was that the keyboard buttons were assignable-- the user could access their particular most-used functions with one or two clicks, by assigning a button and then the arrangement of a menu, if necessary. But . . . I'm gradually learning some work-arounds, and much appreciate the good help here.

Same on the keyboard BlackBerrys.
While on the home screen, press and hold a key... say the 'v' key. When the pop up says the key is unassigned and would you like to assign it... click yes and set the key to launch an app or take some other action.
Love this feature!
Not sure when it was added... may be post 10.3.1

Posted via CB10

[clareberry]

Thanks so much to MPG Vancouver. I am returning to BB from a long stint on iPhone. I bought a used Z30, after VZW said they weren't selling them anymore...(Long, tired story with horrible customer service idiocy that we have all heard or experienced). I have been using it purely on wifi to see if I could survive with the necessary apps I need to do my job - costume design, communications, travel, banking. Your post tonite gave the me last piece of my puzzle and I am so grateful. You know, when someone comes back after a long absence, it really can be overwhelming. It is difficult to wade through all the new information and new techniques for bringing our beloved BB devices to the leading edge of moving forward. I always appreciate the patience and kindness shown to those of us, who may seem silly and ignorant, but we are just out of touch with the faster moving tech. When you let go of the rope, its hard to catch up. Thanks again to you and all who have been so helpful. I was able to install 3 leaks this week and do some work arounds 'cause of helpful info in the last week!

[FF22]

I am technically literate (a web designer), I expected a period of adjustment, and HAVE been reading the Help files and searching online and asking at several associated phone stores. Gradually getting some answers, but it was slow going,

I had built up quite a level of frustration, as you can probably tell, and I think the main contributor was that the basic questions were not being answered by staff at the (Bell) phone stores, so it looked like I couldn't do many things with the phone I wanted to. The answers here have been extremely helpful-- I just didn't realize that the people who sold me the phone would be so unfamiliar with it ;->

Carriers are not very BB centric these days. They prefer other devices and not to knock your bb-newbie status, but they, too run into learning curves and don't bother dealing with learning BB devices. They'd prefer it you got an apple or android device. But I see you have already picked up some good answers.

Frankly, Android is a bit of a mixed bag on BB. It has gotten both better (the android runtime is better) and worse (Google makes sure to force Google Play dependencies into apps and that is not supported at BB).

[FF22]

I have no problem with the complexity-- I expected that. But while the BB is highly configurable, it is not so customizable. E.g. one of the excellent features of the Palm was that the keyboard buttons were assignable-- the user could access their particular most-used functions with one or two clicks, by assigning a button and then the arrangement of a menu, if necessary. But . . . I'm gradually learning some work-arounds, and much appreciate the good help here.

There's a relatively new app that can do that for Physical keyboard devices. Some are native to the BB platforms while in difference apps (t for top and b for bottom in the browser, and there are more).

[Al moon]

you can create any shortcut with the keyboard just assign a letter to the app and keep it pressed theres a lot of nooks and crannies with blackberry its just a matter of patience, once you have your machine set up it'll be just as productive as your palm was also a lot of the stuff you mention can be done just a matter of understanding the OS

[a_bateman]

Using Android since Froyo 2.2 and never had to do any "system cleanings", nor "system repairs". Most apps and tools that "clean" and "repair" actually do more harm than good. Your statements are common BS found everywhere on CB without any demonstration of technical knowledge. If it was that bad, it wouldn't be the most popular mobile OS. BB10 as a whole package is so awesome, that as of 2015 I know nobody still using it. Absolutely nobody. I still keep one Z10 to play with. Got rid of older models long time ago.

I tend to attempt write, or speak, without using too many technical terms due to the fact that not everyone understands them...

Android, in its early days (I had used it from 1.5 to 4.0), would wipe the device if there were too many apps installed.
System apps would install updates in user space and progressively fill storage space.
Caches gained size exponentially and required manual wiping.
Having too many texts would prevent the text messaging app from opening.
I've had to reinstall or do a factory reset of the OS for my old phones as well as the phones of friends.
Some issues and even some apps can only be fixed or used, respectively, by rooting the system.

I see no technical knowledge in your post, either. Does it make a difference to the experiences my friends and I have had with Android that no one you know uses Android? I'm baffled as to why that needed to be added to a criticism of my post?

It's no different then Microsoft Windows. It's the most used desktop OS on the market but it's far from the best. I'm missing how having the largest market share makes a product ultimately a better system. Please elaborate on this statement.

Posted via CB10

[extisis]

i came from a Treo 650, best move you ever did. and no more learning curves with APKs, just download and install.

[joelsf12003]

Bold 9900 is amazing - the best out there but not fancy and not all the bells

[mad_mdx]

Most people find Android more logical and easy to use. Give a BlackBerry phone to a teenager and ask him to change the wallpaper, for example. Mobile OS should be intuitive and self explanatory. A new BB10 user needs a manual. Nobody wants to read manuals these days.

Got my z10 early 20s, took me all of 2 minutes to customize everything I wanted to at the time.

Picked up an android phone a little while later, holy crap was it complicated to do the most basic things. No built in apps, everything has to be downloaded, browser was a mess...

But of course I was used to my phone by then. So obviously it was complicated. The difference was the android phone was complicated every single time with tons of useless options that did nothing for anyone.

[MPG Vancouver]

Thanks so much to MPG Vancouver ... and all who have been so helpful. I was able to install 3 leaks this week and do some work arounds 'cause of helpful info in the last week!

You're welcome! Happy to help.


Posted via CB10

[a_bateman]

When did CB get a fairy tales section?

Yes, I can't speak outside of my experience with a system. I'm telling the experiences my friends and myself have had... I picked up a Blackberry and found its experience to be better than that of my androids. The most recent I've owned the the Xperia.

It was pretty laggy, I had issues with the messaging app and loading with a ton of messages and had to clean the caches often.

Posted via CB10