12-07-15 02:30 AM
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  1. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    BB10 only has a small number of devices in the wild, so I would suspect its numbers would still not register in any significant way regardless with respect to BYOD.
    Again you are making assumptions. I got back from an IT conference in the spring. For regulated markets and large enterprises, the consultant from the US stated that BlackBerry still makes between 25-30 percent of the NA market.
    12-05-15 08:31 PM
  2. conite's Avatar
    Again you are making assumptions. I got back from an IT conference in the spring. For regulated markets and large enterprises, the consultant from the US stated that BlackBerry still makes between 25-30 percent of the NA market.
    In BYOD? Not a chance.
    12-05-15 08:33 PM
  3. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    In BYOD? Not a chance.
    Again, please look at the facts. That article you used to state your BYOD "facts" had no breakdown for BYOD. You are assuming that all enterprise activations are BYOD. All Good talked about was activations which could have been BYOD or company supplied.

    So. Do you have any facts about how prevalent BYOD is in the enterprise field?
    12-05-15 08:38 PM
  4. conite's Avatar
    Again, please look at the facts. That article you used to state your BYOD "facts" had no breakdown for BYOD. You are assuming that all enterprise activations are BYOD. All Good talked about was activations which could have been BYOD or company supplied.

    So. Do you have any facts about how prevalent BYOD is in the enterprise field?
    What I was actually getting at was showing that Android is making up a significant percentage of the BYOD space and growing. I wasn't really trying to get into a debate about BB10.
    12-05-15 08:41 PM
  5. crucial bbq's Avatar
    Keep in mind that Good mainly had products for iOS and Android, their service for BB10 was limited outside of MDM I believe.

    Posted via CB10
    12-05-15 08:49 PM
  6. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    What I was actually getting at was showing that Android is making up a significant percentage of the BYOD space and growing. I wasn't really trying to get into a debate about BB10.
    Again. You don't have any information about the percentage of Android in the BYOD space. You have a percentage of activations of Android for Good but no breakdown for BYOD. That is all.

    BYOD is also on the decrease because of a couple of court rulings and concerns about security. It wasn't the cost savings that businesses thought it would be.
    12-05-15 08:51 PM
  7. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    Keep in mind that Good mainly had products for iOS and Android, their service for BB10 was limited outside of MDM I believe.

    Posted via CB10
    Good actually didn't support BB10 at all.
    Superfly_FR likes this.
    12-05-15 08:51 PM
  8. Superdupont 2_0's Avatar
    Because we didn't have to go buy 70,000 phones from Good. Worst case, if Good went under we could switch to airwatch or boxtone (when that decision was made) and still be able to use the phones with the new MDM. No massive rollout of new hardware to everyone.
    Thank you for these points, but on a second look it isnt convincing for me.

    Vast majority of Android phones running on outdated OS version, the rest are the expensive flagships.
    From a cost point of view, back in 2013 I could have bought two BB10 devices (Q5 or Z10s) for one Android flagship.

    Since all Android OEMs except Samsung are making losses and Android security is a complete joke, going Android is neither sustainable nor secure. Also hopping MDM solutions is easier said than done.

    I still have the feeling that I am missing something, like a stupid political decision, because staying with BlackBerry would have been less risky, less costly and more sustainable than going Android.

    Plus small new company which hasn't yet turned a profit, but is growing, is much less scary than giant old company that is shrinking every quarter. It's a question of the direction each company is trending.
    May I reword:
    A (loss making small company with a) good product is less scary than a (loss making giant company with a) bad product;
    Sure OS 10.1 and BES 10 had deficits in 2013, but overall customers who stick with BlackBerry get good products over time.

    Employees demand iPhones and Galaxies and big companies are developing internal apps which require iOS and Android.
    I believe that is the major problem. On one hand good IT should avoid any unnecessary paternalism for employees, on the other hand we sometimes must educate them about the need of a good costs:security balance.

    Developing internal apps seems to be a reasonable argument. I could imagine the labor market is saturated with cheap Android developers.
    Qt4 of BB10 is in many ways not a sustainable strategy, I don't think app developers in 2016 would still like to deal with Qt4, though it seems you can make good money with enterprise apps.
    12-06-15 05:58 AM
  9. Richard Buckley's Avatar
    Great post, I would just add a few points..

    Thank you for these points, but on a second look it isn’t convincing for me.

    Vast majority of Android phones running on outdated OS version, the rest are the expensive flagships.
    From a cost point of view, back in 2013 I could have bought two BB10 devices (Q5 or Z10s) for one Android flagship.

    Since all Android OEMs except Samsung are making losses and Android security is a complete joke, going Android is neither sustainable nor secure. Also hopping MDM solutions is easier said than done.

    I still have the feeling that I am missing something, like a stupid “political” decision, because staying with BlackBerry would have been less risky, less costly and more sustainable than going Android.

    ...
    I hadn't know, until recently, that Google is providing their 30% cut on applications sales from Play to phone manufacturers. This changes the profit loss equation slightly, and could explain why companies that aren't profiting on sales stay in the game. But what happens if the erosion of handset profitability continues and this additional funding is not sufficient for major players to stay in the game? Maybe Google has the resources, and is willing to spend them to preven a catastrophic change in the Android market, but this makes the whole Android sustainability model precarious, in my opinion.


    Developing internal apps seems to be a reasonable argument. I could imagine the labor market is saturated with cheap Android developers.
    Qt4 of BB10 is in many ways not a sustainable strategy, I don't think app developers in 2016 would still like to deal with Qt4, though it seems you can make good money with enterprise apps.
    Having written BB10, Qt 4 and Qt 5 applications the issue is not that BB10 is based on Qt 4.8. It is only really based on Qt at all in the way an application that is built on Xt widgets is based on Motif/CDE. Unfortunately when TAT created Cascades they didn't build it on top of Qt, they gut way down into the object model and build Cascades based on low level Qt classes. This means that it will be a very difficult job to update Cascades to Qt 5, if you wanted to take advantage of the improvements that were made between Qt 4.8 and the current version. Their other options are to port Cascades as it is to Qt 5, which would not result in any differences or improvemnts to Cascades, but would put it on top of a supported code base; or essentially rewrite Cascades from the ground up to be based on Qt 5 in such a way that future improvements to Qt would be easily incorporated into Cascades. The former seems like a waste of time, particularly if BB10 and Cascades only have one or two years of life left anyway. The latter would be a huge undertaking. I suppose there is a third option. Just chuck Cascades entirely and move BB10 to a pure Qt based UI. But such a change would only make sense if they were going to go all in on a QNX based mobile OS again. We will have to wait to see how well the Priv and other Android based BlackBerry phones succeed, and what BlackBerry does after that.
    12-06-15 10:06 AM
  10. ArchGalileu's Avatar
    I like very much BlackBerry 10

    It is what we I call an intelligent OS and that is possible to work with.

    About Priv, it has Google code there, it is possible to do something about, but it always has the Google hand and that's not good, at least for me.

    Another chance is Linux phone, with same philosophy than BB10, that should be very interesting.

    PlasmaPhone already is happening, in very very slow speed, but I already spoke about what is the main thing: HUB and communications build up.

    So, the if BlackBerry goes down, I will invest on my Plasma Phone.

    IOS and Android are different philosophy, it is analyzed like this:

    Usually how people use their IOS and Android that you know??

    Best regards ArchGalileu PassportSQW100-1/10.3.2.2813
    12-06-15 10:25 AM
  11. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    Then why buy Good is BES12 is so good?
    Good had :
    1/ A non overlapping portfolio of clients (brings instant market shares - yes, BES+Good is #1 worldwide by a significant number, say 15%+)
    2/ A well recognized, known and already installed MDM solution for iOS devices (+/- 60%) and other platforms where they do had more experience than BlackBerry (talent recruitment by external growth)
    3/ (as mentioned before) A vast portfolio of "containerized apps" ready to roll that I won't be surprised to find sooner than later also supporting BES (alone or via a "compatibility plug-in") and a new interest from their editors for anything BlackBerry.
    The platform has more than 2,000 independent software vendor and custom applications built today.
    (link)
    Good was
    1/ Near bankruptcy (extremely cheap)
    2/ Somehow the best worst friend of BlackBerry since their CEO declared that they will "kill" BlackBerry and Chen stated they'll hear from them sooner than they believe (or the likes).

    Wrap-up : Cheap acquisition of market shares plus talents and technology plus editors de facto enrollment.
    Nice move, John.

    Back on topic ? Last item (SW vendors) is 100% on topic
    12-06-15 12:37 PM
  12. thanhvx's Avatar
    With current BB 10 OS? As long as they make *good* BB Maps and good Camera software then I'll be happy.

    That being said: trying to find what (apps) users need most and improve or bring them to BB 10 then we (they) should be good.

    No need to drop BB 10.
    12-06-15 02:02 PM
  13. Ronindan's Avatar
    I am from Canada and BB devices are being phased out from the corporate world as well. Corporations are moving away from issuing BB's and adopting the BYOD model. In my company - BYOD is being implemented by next year and now iphones and Samsung are the devices being issued to employees that does not want to buy their own devices. And when I used to work for the Canadian Federal Government - BB's were also being phased out. One thing to remember is the public sector is slow in adapting new technologies but change is happening as new public sector employees are more vocal in wanting to use their own devices and not a bb.
    12-06-15 07:52 PM
  14. glamrlama's Avatar
    Actually nope. For all employees in the banks that have email access on phones. I see that a lot. If you want/need email access on your phone, it is BlackBerry only.
    My friend works for TD Waterhouse as a financial advisor; he uses a galaxy S5 with Good for his phone.
    Last edited by glamrlama; 12-06-15 at 09:02 PM.
    12-06-15 08:48 PM
  15. hoytbowhunter's Avatar
    Does anyone know if the BlackBerry Vienna will have the touchscreen keyboard like the BlackBerry Z10? If so I want it. I took back my BlackBerry Priv because it was to big and also because I missed my BlackBerry Z10, so I bought a new BlackBerry Z10 #FinsUp🐬🆙🏈
    If BlackBerry 10 gets dropped, they should open source it-img_20151206_210108.png
    If BlackBerry 10 gets dropped, they should open source it-mockit_06122015210453.jpg

    Posted via CB10
    12-06-15 09:05 PM
  16. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    AFAIK, rumored Vienna (that's all, a rumor - specs wise) will be a PKB device.
    Unlike the Priv (slider with choice P/SW) it would more likely handle the KB like the Passport i.e : no SW KB.
    12-07-15 02:30 AM
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