[Yoox_II]

That would open the door for people like us who still want to use it and see it change and update, while they could detach themselves from it and focus on android powered devices, if that's actually what they end up doing. Wouldn't that sort of solve this abandonment argument? Basically, they would open up most but not all aspects of the OS to be accessed by people like us, allowing changes to be made and stuff. Would that work?

Posted via CB10

[thurask]

Wouldn't that mean open sourcing QNX, too?

[Yoox_II]

I'm not sure if they are considered a separate entity, but you're probably right. Never mind

Posted via CB10

[Bobert_123]

I hope they license it to a big phone manufacturer like samsung or LG.

Sent from my Passport

[thurask]

I hope they license it to a big phone manufacturer like samsung or LG.

Sent from my Passport

Heins tried that, but nobody took him up on it.

[BerryRipe]

Heins tried that, but nobody took him up on it.

Success comes from not giving up. BB10 is worth not giving up on...I'm not giving up my Q10, not until I utterly have to.

Posted via CB10

[Superdupont 2_0]

Heins tried that, but nobody took him up on it.

I believe OS 10.3 is worth trying it again.

The OS is mature and there is a certain established BB10 community.
Also, if BBRY really lost only about $100 per device (as rumored on CB sometimes), there should be a way to make OS 10.3 profitable.

However, it is only a true BB10 if we get hardware root of trust, and it seems to me only Apple and Samsung can do this.

[Soulstream]

I believe OS 10.3 is worth trying it again.

The OS is mature and there is a certain established BB10 community.
Also, if BBRY really lost only about $100 per device (as rumored on CB sometimes), there should be a way to make OS 10.3 profitable.

However, it is only a true BB10 if we get hardware root of trust, and it seems to me only Apple and Samsung can do this.

The problem is that BB cannot exactly ask for money to licence BB10 to anyone. Both Android and Windows Phone are free to licence to anyone and come with a better native ecosystem than BB10.

[early2bed]

HP tried to do that with webOS but it went absolutely nowhere. One of the big problems was that there are significant components of the OS that they do not own that are licensed from other companies. Those components have to be stripped out before open sourcing. What you are left with is a crippled OS that costs time and money to implement.

[Superdupont 2_0]

The problem is that BB cannot exactly ask for money to licence BB10 to anyone. Both Android and Windows Phone are free to licence to anyone and come with a better native ecosystem than BB10.

What counts is that BB10 has a user base willed to pay for BB10, namely OS 10.3.
Android has no more growth potential, while BB10 has; at least in the niche of already existing BB10 user base + further privacy&security focused users.

However, either way, I understand the license fee would be rather symbolic and it's also debatable how to maintain services like BBW or BB ID.

[Superfly_FR]

Android has no more growth potential

SayWhaaaat ?

Feature phone and smartphone shipments worldwide
from 2008 to 2020

[thurask]

What counts is that BB10 has a user base willed to pay for BB10, namely OS 10.3.
Android has no more growth potential, while BB10 has; at least in the niche of already existing BB10 user base + further privacy&security focused users.

However, either way, I understand the license fee would be rather symbolic and it's also debatable how to maintain services like BBW or BB ID.

I don't think the current user base is willing to pay for anything, personally. Even then, if the entire BB10 user base were to suddenly start paying monthly for their OS (which very few would), it still wouldn't be more than a drop in a bucket, unless BlackBerry either charges extortionate rates or somehow convinces a few dozen million people to pick up BB10 and pay for it.

As for growth potential, Android is what's on the bottom of the barrel phones for places like India and Africa (i.e. places with growth) while phones for decrepit middle managers who declare jihad on anything different from "just how it should be", not so much. Even with the Priv being priced out of the third world and lower market, the ecosystem gives it the edge over BlackBerry's other offerings.

[Superdupont 2_0]

SayWhaaaat ?

Okay, I agree the global smartphone market will grow, and in developing countries people will probably buy cheap Androids.
However, in the western world, where we have the target markets of BlackBerry, the Android segment is saturated and actually people start "upgrading" from Android to Apple.

To quote Tim Cook: "We recorded the highest rate on record for Android switchers last quarter at 30 percent."

And just in case it has been forgotten: The Google Android OEM business model is only profitable for Google, see here.

All in all, I don't see why Android should grow in western countries, neither from the consumer side nor from the OEM manufacturer side.

BB10 is an alternative OS model, the growth potential is not spectacular, but significant (hard to believe the BB10 market share will further decrease).
The OS is mature and potentially interesting for people who want to go away from Google.

I don't think the current user base is willing to pay for anything, personally.
Even then, if the entire BB10 user base were to suddenly start paying monthly for their OS (which very few would),

Oh, don't get me wrong, I wouldn't pay a monthly fee for BB10 either.
I would pay +$200 more for a BB10 device, but only once and every 2 years a new device and that's it.

With regards to the BB10 user base, I have difficulties to see a consistent picture..
We can afford a Priv or switch to iOS, in case BB10 is really gone, right?
Well, then my best guess would be that the BB10 user base would (be able to) pay more for a Z50, Classic 2 or Passport 2 just to keep OS10.3 in the game.
Does this make sense?

As for growth potential, Android is what's on the bottom of the barrel phones for places like India and Africa (i.e. places with growth) while phones for decrepit middle managers who declare jihad on anything different from "just how it should be", not so much. ...

With regards to growth potential in western world, I must clearly admit that it is just my own bet:
I believe that a small but significant portion of Google Android users will start looking for alternatives in the future, because they are tired of being spied by Google and malicious apps or being exposed to critical OS vulnerabilities, most probably upgrade to Apple, some switch to Microsoft or BB10... as I said couple of times, OS 10.3 is mature enough to compete.

[Bluenoser63]

SayWhaaaat ?

Feature phone and smartphone shipments worldwide
from 2008 to 2020

Units have nothing to do with profits. Unless you are Samsung, you will not make money on Android phones. BlackBerry will just be another Android OEM not making money. A year to 18 months from now, I suspect BlackBerry will announce that they are getting out of the hardware business.

[early2bed]

The HP/webOS experience should shows us something that should be obvious - no matter how popular it once was if an OS is discontinued by the hardware manufacturer (no new models) then it pretty much vanishes until it's picked up by another company for and repurposed (webOS was licensed by LG for their smart TVs).

Any other way to keep a mobile OS going may work as a hobby but technical barriers will prevent these devices from being used as a primary smartphone.

[gruv4u]

BB10 OS is great technology. Too good to throw away. Everyone knows that. It will not go away.

 Z10 STL 100-3 with vitamin 10.3.2.2639 on AT&T

[conite]

BB10 OS is great technology. Too good to throw away. Everyone knows that. It will not go away.

 Z10 STL 100-3 with vitamin 10.3.2.2639 on AT&T

Hmm

[Superfly_FR]

Units have nothing to do with profits. Unless you are Samsung, you will not make money on Android phones. BlackBerry will just be another Android OEM not making money. A year to 18 months from now, I suspect BlackBerry will announce that they are getting out of the hardware business.

What you describe is not related to the answer I made re: "Android has no more growth potential".
Android does have a huge growth potential and we should not focus only on smartphones (see my first graph).

The way I see things is a different.
I believe Android option has legs thanks to the "end to end" mantra in enterprises.
In short : general market will add the mandatory volumes (with little to none profit) while it'll push enterprise in the "all BlackBerry" scheme again (with SW & services large margins).
I'm yet to ear something from BlackBerry stating they lost their focus on enterprises.
As of date, I didn't ...

[Drenegade]

What a huge waste of time and money if they abandon it. Would be such a shame.

Posted via CB10

[Superdupont 2_0]

Hmm

Would be interesting to see the net profits in $ and compare these with net profits of HTC, Sony, LG etc etc. ...
Will they all disappear?
BB10 has at least a core user base for a polished unique OS.

[conite]

What a huge waste of time and money if they abandon it. Would be such a shame.

Posted via CB10

If they don't, it will mean even more time and money.

[conite]

Would be interesting to see the net profits in $ and compare these with net profits of HTC, Sony, LG etc etc. ...
Will they all disappear?
BB10 has at least a core user base for a polished unique OS.

And they lose millions and millions every quarter.

Getting even close to breakeven on the Priv would be a triumphant success.

[Bluenoser63]

Hmm

Sales have nothing to do with how good the technology is. There is more to the issue than just technology.

[Bluenoser63]

What you describe is not related to the answer I made re: "Android has no more growth potential".
Android does have a huge growth potential and we should not focus only on smartphones (see my first graph).

The way I see things is a different.
I believe Android option has legs thanks to the "end to end" mantra in enterprises.
In short : general market will add the mandatory volumes (with little to none profit) while it'll push enterprise in the "all BlackBerry" scheme again (with SW & services large margins).
I'm yet to ear something from BlackBerry stating they lost their focus on enterprises.
As of date, I didn't ...

Actually the Priv shows that they have lost their focus on Enterprise. I am an Enterprise IT manager and will not be using BlackBerry in the future. They are falling farther and farther behind and a consumer (Google Services) isn't what enterprises are demanding.

[Bluenoser63]

And they lose millions and millions every quarter.

Getting even close to breakeven on the Priv would be a triumphant success.

So how much money are all the other Android OEMs making on Android even when they sell millions of phones per quarter?