[conite]

Well, considering that it LITERALLY bought a product that I carried out for the money paid that INCLUDED BB10, I LITERALLY paid for it.

You're attempting to claim that via some accounting method (which you have EFFECTIVELY admitted now you have no intimate knowledge of) at Blackberry that somehow isolates or tracks that money in a way that isolates it.

Because a "sensible person" would understand that when they buy a product...the money PAYS for that product and PART of its development.

So, what's your answer: Is your initial claim LITERALLY true or EFFECTIVELY true? OR neither?

GAAP.

[KAM1138]

GAAP.

GAAP doesn't answer what YOU stated.

ARE there LITERALLY ZERO dollars (free) that went to pay for BB10 development or EFFECTIVELY none?

Do you recognize that those are different words with different meanings. Can I get you to at least admit that?

[conite]

GAAP doesn't answer what YOU stated.

Is there LITERALLY ZERO dollars (free) that went to pay for BB10 development or EFFECTIVELY none?

Do you recognize that those are different words with different meanings. Can I get you to at least admit that?

If by "literally" you mean is there a chance a dollar bill you put on the table may have ended up in the hands of a BB10 developer - then yes, that is possible.

But does any analyst or reasonable person that studies financial statements think that way or care? No, of course not. It's irrelevant.

COGS first, O/H second.

[ppeters914]

Damn! Ran out of popcorn! Don't do anything until I get back.

Posted via CB10 / AT&T /Z10 STL100-3 /10.3.3.3216

[KAM1138]

GAAP.

Can companies choose how they move money around within their company? Could a company theoretically shift money from one segment (whatever that might be) to another?
Might the Accountant at a company have options available to them to move money to pay for a given thing, based on money coming from another source.

[danfrancisco]

This economics and grammar lesson is making my head hurt!

Can't we all just agree that the BB10 launch and effort to grow the ecosystem was poorly executed by BB, resulting in hundreds of millions in losses?

I am certain of one thing though, TCL and BB (by way of licensing) just got a few more bucks out of me as I ended up buying the Middle Eastern bronze KEYone!

[conite]

Can companies choose how they move money around within their company? Could a company theoretically shift money from one segment (whatever that might be) to another?
Might the Accountant at a company have options available to them to move money to pay for a given thing, based on money coming from another source.

That's irrelevant. It doesn't matter if a company has one bank account, ten bank accounts, or just has a pile of cash sitting on a table in the middle of the warehouse.

From an analyst point of view, COGS first, O/H second. Period.

[KAM1138]

If by "literally" you mean is there a chance a dollar bill you put on the table may have ended up in the hands of a BB10 developer - then yes, that is possible.

But does any analyst or reasonable person that studies financial statements think that way or care? No, of course not. It's irrelevant.

COGS first, O/H second.

Thank you very much for answering the question I've asked you from the outset. See--it wasn't that hard at all.

Let's not pretend however that this was a conversation about "studying financial statements." I find it hard to believe that was at all relevant to your earlier statements.
I think it was about you insisting that BB10 couldn't possibly be supported at any cost, because it wasn't supported even when it was "free."

For whatever reason you seem very determined to prove, repeatedly throughout pretty much any thread where anyone muses about BB10 devices that it will never happen. Funny thing is that I think you're right. I just don't understand why you pursue that.

Regardless--how you spend your time is your business.

Shows over folks...at least from my end.

[KAM1138]

This economics and grammar lesson is making my head hurt!

Can't we all just agree that the BB10 launch and effort to grow the ecosystem was poorly executed by BB, resulting in hundreds of millions in losses?

I am certain of one thing though, TCL and BB (by way of licensing) just got a few more bucks out of me as I ended up buying the Middle Eastern bronze KEYone!

I don't think anyone is disputing that Blackberry lost a lot of money, surrounding their business plans including BB10 Phones.

I don't think BB10 itself caused that, and I think there it was POSSIBLE (although perhaps a pretty narrow possibility) that Blackberry could have gone a different route that may have ended more favorably. But we'll never know.

[conite]

For whatever reason you seem very determined to prove, repeatedly throughout pretty much any thread where anyone muses about BB10 devices that it will never happen.

I don't need to prove anything - BlackBerry already did that.

They fired all the developers, let go of the designers and managers, sold all the buildings, and deprecated all of their tools. It's not coming back - ever.

People just need to be made aware of the biblical amount of money it would cost to restart the whole thing from scratch whenever they start to muse.

[KAM1138]

I don't need to prove anything - BlackBerry already did that.

They fired all the developers, let go of the designers and managers, sold all the buildings, and deprecated all of their tools. It's not coming back - ever.

Yet that's what you do, again and again and again.

I don't disagree, but for whatever reason, you do seem to have an interest in telling people this. Not saying you shouldn't but people seem to act like they're really exasperated. "Oh, these MORONS who like BB10...how TIRESOME that I have to keep on telling them they're fantasizing."

Do you get some satisfaction from jamming that knife into fans of BB10?
I've noticed a certain zeal in people who dropped BB10--bordering on gloating.

BUT to be fair--I'll admit, I'd be elated to see just ONE more BB10 product come out--it would be a hoot to see you folks avoid eating crow and explaining why everyone else is still an *****.

But hey--everyone's got their petty little flaws.

[DrBoomBotz]

I'm sure they did. In your opinion was BB10 the CAUSE of this loss?

Tricycle please and keep them coming.

[danfrancisco]

I don't think anyone is disputing that Blackberry lost a lot of money, surrounding their business plans including BB10 Phones.

I don't think BB10 itself caused that, and I think there it was POSSIBLE (although perhaps a pretty narrow possibility) that Blackberry could have gone a different route that may have ended more favorably. But we'll never know.

I think BB10 might have made it if they were able to strike a partnership with Google. Setting up your own commercial app ecosystem is hard and having the developer community focus on yet another OS landscape from a company whos' brand was on the decline was a big ask.

I suppose the seeds of BB10's downfall were planted back in the Balsillie /Lazaridis era when they refused to adjust their strategy in response to the impending iPhone threat.

But let's not get into that!

[conite]

Again--I don't disagree, but for whatever reason, you do seem to have an interest in telling people this. Not saying your shouldn't but people seem to act like they're really exasperated. "Oh, these MORONS who like BB10...how TIRESOME that I have to keep on telling them they're fantasizing."

Do you get some satisfaction from jamming that knife into fans of BB10?
I've noticed a certain zeal in people who dropped BB10--bordering on gloating.

BUT to be fair--I'll admit, I'd be elated to see just ONE more BB10 product come out--it would be a hoot to see you folks avoid eating crow and explaining why everyone else is still an *****.

But hey--everyone's got their petty little flaws.

I actually like BB10, still tinker a lot with BB10, and enjoy helping people still on BB10.

I also never argue with preference. If someone is happy using BB10, then that's awesome.

But, as a realist, I will not hesitate to discuss the business model for BB10, and try to contain the people that are irrationally getting their hopes up. It's almost like the efficiency of preventative medicine. Lol.

[conite]

I think BB10 might have made it if they were able to strike a partnership with Google. Setting up your own commercial app ecosystem is hard and having the developer community focus on yet another OS landscape from a company whos' brand was on the decline was a big ask.

I suppose the seeds of BB10's downfall were planted back in the Balsillie /Lazaridis era when they refused to adjust their strategy in response to the impending iPhone threat.

But let's not get into that!

That's the only way I could have seen a way forward for BB10 in 2013.

Although the OHA would have had something to say about that.

[Elephant_Canyon]

I think BB10 might have made it if they were able to strike a partnership with Google. Setting up your own commercial app ecosystem is hard and having the developer community focus on yet another OS landscape from a company whos' brand was on the decline was a big ask.

Yup. if BB10 were based on Android from the start, it could've been released a few years earlier and BlackBerry might be in Samsung's place now.

Coulda, woulda, shoulda…

[anon(10065266)]

Yet that's what you do, again and again and again.

I don't disagree, but for whatever reason, you do seem to have an interest in telling people this. Not saying you shouldn't but people seem to act like they're really exasperated. "Oh, these MORONS who like BB10...how TIRESOME that I have to keep on telling them they're fantasizing."

Do you get some satisfaction from jamming that knife into fans of BB10?
I've noticed a certain zeal in people who dropped BB10--bordering on gloating.

BUT to be fair--I'll admit, I'd be elated to see just ONE more BB10 product come out--it would be a hoot to see you folks avoid eating crow and explaining why everyone else is still an *****.

But hey--everyone's got their petty little flaws.

So, finally, this is the source of your (feigned) obtuseness - your beef with Conite?

[conite]

Yup. if BB10 were based on Android from the start, it could've been released a few years earlier and BlackBerry might be in Samsung's place now.

Coulda, woulda, shoulda…

The only issue with that is that Android was still a bit of a mess in 2013, and would have been almost impossible to try and lock down. Kitkat and Lollipop really started to turn that around.

No matter how you look at it, BlackBerry was in a pickle.

[joeldf]

So, finally, this is the source of your (feigned) obtuseness - your beef with Conite?

Yeah, that's how I see it too.

[Elephant_Canyon]

The only issue with that is that Android was still a bit of a mess in 2013, and would have been almost impossible to try and lock down. Kitkat and Lollipop really started to turn that around.

No matter how you look at it, BlackBerry was in a pickle.

Possibly. But maybe it would have cost less to do than trying to build a smartphone OS from scratch with QNX.

The world will never know, because that's now how it played out.

[KAM1138]

I actually like BB10, still tinker a lot with BB10, and enjoy helping people still on BB10.

I also never argue with preference. If someone is happy using BB10, then that's awesome.

But, as a realist, I will not hesitate to discuss the business model for BB10, and try to contain the people that are irrationally getting their hopes up. It's almost like the efficiency of preventative medicine. Lol.

Sure. I think I acknowledged that you liked BB10 at some point.

Preference: I agree and I don't blame anyone for moving on from BB10. Whatever works for them.

But...maybe some people enjoy a little 'what if' fantasy. What's the harm.

Posted via CB10

[conite]

But...maybe some people enjoy a little 'what if' fantasy. What's the harm.

Agreed. But what's the harm in talking about it too? That's why we're all here after all.

[KAM1138]

So, finally, this is the source of your (feigned) obtuseness - your beef with Conite?

Not at all. I don't have a 'beef' with Conite. From what I've seen he's a very helpful guy. He's answered questions I've had on Android in the past.

It doesn't mean what he says is gospel.

But let me be clear I have no grudge or 'beef' against Conite or anyone.

Posted via CB10

[KAM1138]

I think BB10 might have made it if they were able to strike a partnership with Google. Setting up your own commercial app ecosystem is hard and having the developer community focus on yet another OS landscape from a company whos' brand was on the decline was a big ask.

I suppose the seeds of BB10's downfall were planted back in the Balsillie /Lazaridis era when they refused to adjust their strategy in response to the impending iPhone threat.

But let's not get into that!

I wonder, especially with Chen 's recent comments if a totally different direction might have found some level of success.

Kind of a dead issue, due to Chen dismantling that part of the company...and financial woes if not.

The seeds of demise do seem to go back quite a ways.

Posted via CB10

[KAM1138]

Agreed. But what's the harm in talking about it too? That's why we're all here after all.

Fair enough.

Posted via CB10