Printable View
Nobody's apologizing for Chen. You and I the consumer are irrelevant with regards to survival options for the only people that legally matter to BlackBerry executives and the board of directors. The company gave us a product as promised for payment. The company met their obligations to us consumers.
At the very least, the BlackBerry HUB is the best email client on Android in my opinion.
A single device won't appeal to everyone's mutually exclusive preferences, but the KEYᵒⁿᵉ hits a lot of sweet spots. It's my favourite BlackBerry of all time - hands down.
People refer to Chen as saving Blackberry, which is true as an entity, but as part of the process dropped hardware and BB10, so no matter whether it was a necessity or not. The result is the same to me.
But I am happy to hear you find some value in the KeyONE. I keep trying to justify it, but as I mentioned, it seems they can’t even get the Hub to function well.
I like and prefer the physical keyboard, but I can work with a vibe as well. I have a hard time without the hub.
It wouldn't have been the better option to protecting employees jobs or shareholders equity and that's what is ultimately important to regulators and the courts.
Name a single company whose bankruptcy liquidation and complete loss of employee jobs benefited society and led to any future innovation of any kind.
BB10 doesn't have any special moral or ethical redeeming quality that makes it life altering rising to a level of anything significant that any other mobile OS product can't accomplish for society.
I didn’t say they owed me, although I was. Stockholder until recently. I’m just saying, as a customer Blackberry means very little. I wish it did have more to offer.
I would like nothing more to be able to buy some of their products.
...to you.
Fortunately it has been great for over a million KEYᵒⁿᵉ owners.
If I’m being honest, I’m not playing a team sport, unless it benefits me. The comany had its own priorities, and I don’t fault them, but I’m not gonna pretend it is some sort of benefit to me either.
Good for you. I’m happy that someone has found a way to enjoy what’s left.
But “great”. That’s speculation.
And in the vein of the individual competition, according to you, BlackBerry won and you lost. Sounds like you'd be happier if both of you lost. Be mad if you want. Obviously, BlackBerry doesn't care either way.
No, I’m saying I lost, and I really don’t care one way or another what happens to some business entity that used to make products I liked. That company is effectively transformed into one that doesn’t provide products I want, so what they do is largely irrelevant to me.
If other people feel that Chen “saved” a name and enjoy it existing out of nostalgia...then fine, enjoy.
If you are like Conite and apparently. About a million others who bought the KEyONE then good. I’m a bit jealous, because I would love a good option for a new phone.
Some people, who probably like, but can and have gotten along without a physical keyboard have an option. Glad to hear it. Others like me do not have a third (4th, etc) option beyond Android and iOS, and that’s an issue for me.
But, perhaps if Blackberry closed shop and sold off its patents then other companies would offer more and better keyboard phones—for example. Maybe 10 million uses could be pleased with a better product than the KeyONE.
So he lied to me because he cares about me?
Posted via CB10
He never lied. Provide an unambiguous direct quote if you think otherwise.
So the hyperbole of a journalism major is now gospel? This is Chen's narrative. Besides no one is saying don't slash the payroll, etc. And once he was hired they went on an acquisition spending spree.
We're talking about some small changes in strategy after Chen came on board. Like efforts to inform people the brand still existed. I thought that would be the first thing Chen did.
Posted via CB10
Chen lie no. 1:
We can stay in hardware if we can sell 10 million units.
Reality: There is no way we will ever stay in hardware because I've been ordered by the board of directors to shut down hardware.
Chen lie no. 2:
We can stay in hardware if we can sell 5 million units.
Reality: There is no way we will ever stay in hardware because I've been ordered by the board of directors to shut down hardware.
Posted via CB10
The 2nd is in regards to BlackBerry Android. The walking orders were in regards to BB10.
And you're damn right Chen would have reversed and stayed with BB10 if it could sell 10 million units a year - but that was never going to happen, and everyone (including all of us) knew it as clear as day.
Neither are lies, so good luck with proving either as such in court. You'd be laughed all the way out the door.
No, but it is yet one more piece of evidence - that plus Chen's statements, plus the financial statements, plus common sense.
You have yet to provide a single ounce of proof or corroboration of your position.
Not a single reasonable person can possibly look at the statements at the end of Sep 2017 and conclude that it would have been wise to double down on the disaster that was BB10. This is pure folly.
So as a shareholder I should've known that this was simply an idle jest that Chen was making to make conversation with those silly tech journalists that don't know any better?
Is this how CEOs always behave or just Chen?
Posted via CB10
It's called protecting your brand, shareholders, and employees - the only legal and ethical thing to do.
Actually Chen has the reputation on wall street of being very direct and honest - look it up. He doesn't sugar-coat anything.
CNET:
"But Chen ... is a spitfire, quick with the jokes, and brutally honest -- often to the dismay and horror of his PR handlers."
Hmm, at least one person who was following BlackBerry and pretended to be an expert stock picker thought they were going to sell 10 million units and meet Chen's target.
https://seekingalpha.com/article/221...arget-for-2015
I guess it was just the two of us who gullible fools and the rest of the world knew better.
Posted via CB10
If you think that's ethical I don't know what to say. Misleading the public and shareholders is never OK for a CEO.
Posted via CB10
This is such a fascinating thread that embodies the very essence of CB. Spirited debate with wildly difference perspectives, yet one thing remains consistent, our love for BlackBerry.
I really think you ought to give the KEYone a shot. I think you’ll be surprised at how quickly you will adapt. I will be the first to admit that the DTEK60 and 50 were definitely BlackBerry imposters and the PRIV was a weird first time Android experiment, but to me the KEYone is a BlackBerry through and through. Also keep in mind that there are many folks at BlackBerry Mobile who were former RIM employees so the blackBerry DNA is still in there... they’re just riding on a different platform.
As for BB closing shop and being sold off for parts in hopes that some other company will bring it back to its glory. I have my doubts. One only has to look at Fitbit buying Pebble to see that once a company is truly dead, you can never repeat the magic.
Sure, DroidBerry is not BB10. For some its better, for others its worse. But it exists because of BlackBerry licensing so the DNA lives on. It’s 2018 and I cant believe Im getting pumped for the Athena; a new BlackBerry device in his day and age! I don’t think that would have been possible had Chen not executed his hardware exit strategy and software licensing pivot. Heck, we wouldn’t even have a forum to debate on as CB would likely be dead!
I am still at a complete loss to understand how you were mislead.
At what point was this “clear as day” to you?
Also, if you have a CEO that is publicly stating a scenario that they knew “was never going to happen” then doesn’t that strike you as a bit misleading?
Chen lowered the number to 5M *after* BB started making Android phones. The lower number reflected the lower development costs to BB associated with making Android phones compared to having to continue development and support of an entire ecosystem (BB10 and its associated pieces).
No, I'm not being sarcastic.Are you being sarcastic? What do you think they are spending now? How much more than now do you really think BB10 users expect? I would posit not that much.
BB is spending very little on BB10 today, obviously. I'm talking about when BB10 was still in active development (2013-mid 2014). Those are the numbers that matter. Remember that BB laid off 7400 employees between 2012 and 2015 - the bulk of them after the summer of 2013. They then sold off all the buildings those employees used to work in, and took a further $4.4B write-down on company value (and this is AFTER the $1B writedown on Playbooks followed by another $1B writedown on Z10 inventory). All of that was related to the development, marketing, support, and other costs of the BB10 project that failed to generate anything but huge financial losses for the company.
SwiftKey was only one example. At one time, there was a page on BB's website linking to all of the various components and technologies that were licensed for BB10 - and it was quite a list. Maybe someone can dig it up on the Wayback Machine.Swiftkey? I'll bet with a little arm twisting Chen could have kept that license going for $5M per year or less.
The problem is that an OS is never done - technology continues moving forward and requiring constant changes and updates. If that wasn't the case, why would Google and Apple continue to spend billions every year on their OSs/ecosystems?You do understand the concept of marginal cost, right? After BB already paid to develop the OS, you don't stop selling phones merely because you're not making a profit if you factor in what you already paid to develop the product. Then you only lose more money.
BB10 is still based on 32-bit QNX and needs a full 64-bit conversion to run on any modern hardware. The development language (Cascades, based on QT) is years out of date and not compatible with any supported version. The development environment is likewise years out of date. There are a number of new technologies that would need to be implemented to stay current. And as always, there is the on-going issue of driver availability and cost, as QNX-based drivers are not provided by hardware vendors, and in the case of the SoC or the camera, must be created by the vendor at high cost, and again and again anytime new hardware is used.
Nope. Chen used carefully worded statements that were intended to make BB10 fans feel better - or at least give them some faint hope - but he did not lie; he always left himself an out.I think you meant to say "in my opinion" before that. Also, I think this would mean that Chen committed many, many securities violations by lying to investors (including me) about the company's plans. To even suggest that he believed they could continue in their core business -- which he did many times -- would be a known falsehood.
There was no way Chen was going to sell MORE phones with far, far fewer resources at his disposal compared to what Heins had for the BB10 launch, with big marketing spends, several thousand contracted field reps to visit carrier stores, dedicated (i.e., paid for) space and displays in carrier stores, and near full carrier support. Oh, and let's not forget all of the employees that were being let go, which began under Heins before Chen was even brought in.Again, in your opinion. Find anyone at the time who said, "We already know that the board decided to drop hardware." No one was saying that. No one knew Chen would fail to sell many smartphones. Do you think Apple knew it would sell 100 million iPhones (or whatever) before they launched them? Or sell only 1 million iWatches (or whatever) before they launched them?
Not at all. You insist that Chen *must* have been expecting to stay in the smartphone business. I'm pretty confident that the Board and Chen both knew that was nearly impossible, though Chen was going to make a visible show of trying - given that he had contracts for parts and manufacturing that he had to burn through anyway. But even his first week he was clear: he WANTED to stay in hardware, but if it couldn't be profitable, he'd get out. In the end, it couldn't be profitable, and BB got out.You guys act like if Chen ran over a kindergartner while speeding down Sandhill Road in his Tesla it would be because he meant to do that for some larger purpose.
What you or he "thought" is irrelevant. Chen never even made any prediction or took any position on being able to hit the target.