1. Brandon Orr's Avatar
    I was looking at Kickstarter and I was thinking, what if we could do this for BB10 apps? What if we could have a bunch of Kickstarters for apps we want where users pay either 0.99, 1.99, 2.99, 4.99 or a custom amount (if they feel generous) to go towards the app developer if the app comes to BB10, otherwise they don't get charged the amount they donate.

    This would allow developers to see what their monetary incentive would be for coming to BB10 as well as provide a stronger and more confident approach for developers who may be weary of getting emails from a few vocal people that email them about bringing their app to BB10 but aren't actually representative of BB10 users. If developers could then see how many people are interested and the amount raised it could definitely grab some attention.

    Also I think there should be a custom amount option for users to donate towards the cause if they really want the app. If it's an app I really want I wouldn't mind paying $10 to help bring it to the platform, even if it only costs 0.99.

    Is there any way this would be possible? For those of you wondering how this would work with the BlackBerry World. What could happen is that once the app is uploaded to BlackBerry World there would be some automatic charge to your BlackBerry ID to buy it. Although this may be a bit difficult as people donating can't know 100% the final pricing of an app, but there could be a clause that allows you to either add and pay the difference of what you donated and the actual price or to opt out if it's too expensive.



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    app_Developer likes this.
    07-10-13 04:26 PM
  2. diegonei's Avatar
    Not a bad idea. But I am curious about, how would we make sure the money goes to the devs once they deliver?

    Also, if the devs do this, how can we know they will deliver once they have the money?

    Sorry. I do like the idea. I'm just a tad paranoid. ^^
    07-10-13 04:45 PM
  3. Brandon Orr's Avatar
    Would require devs to upload the app to get the money, but the money is guaranteed if they do. If they don't, then the people who paid will not get charged. Users donating would use PayPal or a Credit card to pay and get a confirmation after they do, but would not get charged of the app does not come to the app world. Would require a talk with BlackBerry and the developers to ensure the money is transferred to the developers through BlackBerry World. Benefits all parties, the consumers get their app, the developers get their money, and BlackBerry gets their share of the pie as well.

    Posted via CB10
    07-10-13 04:49 PM
  4. AnimalPak200's Avatar
    Almost like... 'pre-order' an app, and developers only get the loot if they deliver. Sounds like a cool idea, but someone mentioned earlier a point about apps that really made me think twice about this low-cost model. It's not just the cost of making an app (which, given the android port capabilities) could be very low... it's the cost of supporting the app in a new ecosystem for an indefinite amount of time. Does $0.99 cover the cost of supporting me as a user for years? I don't know... but I can't imagine it would.
    07-10-13 04:49 PM
  5. Brandon Orr's Avatar
    Almost like... 'pre-order' an app, and developers only get the loot if they deliver. Sounds like a cool idea, but someone mentioned earlier a point about apps that really made me think twice about this low-cost model. It's not just the cost of making an app (which, given the android port capabilities) could be very low... it's the cost of supporting the app in a new ecosystem for an indefinite amount of time. Does $0.99 cover the cost of supporting me as a user for years? I don't know... but I can't imagine it would.
    Well it's a donation towards the developers to bring the app, if it turns out to be a free app with in-app purchases so be it. At least the app has come to the platform. And the user has the choice to continue using the app if they use it and require the in-app purchase features.

    If the app is a one time cost then the donation is used towards the cost of the app. This way the developers are guaranteed the money, but also, the consumers are also guaranteed the product for their money.

    Essentially yes, pre ordering an app. Like what kick starter does.

    Posted via CB10
    07-10-13 04:54 PM
  6. Brandon Orr's Avatar
    Almost like... 'pre-order' an app, and developers only get the loot if they deliver. Sounds like a cool idea, but someone mentioned earlier a point about apps that really made me think twice about this low-cost model. It's not just the cost of making an app (which, given the android port capabilities) could be very low... it's the cost of supporting the app in a new ecosystem for an indefinite amount of time. Does $0.99 cover the cost of supporting me as a user for years? I don't know... but I can't imagine it would.
    Just to add, developers always have the option to do a yearly fee like WhatsApp does. But that's really the developer's perogative.

    Posted via CB10
    07-10-13 05:01 PM
  7. AnimalPak200's Avatar
    I like this idea. Earlier in the day Alec (from BB) was in a thread discussing how at this point BlackBerry needs prospective app users to let developers know that there is actual demand, because they haven't been persuaded by the financial incentives. With this idea; however, it essentially becomes a combined 'demand metric' and 'financial incentive' for developers. In fact, by allowing users to set their own donation amount, it even acts as a price-point focus group for when the app is released. Of course, some of the bigger missing apps are from companies with multi-million dollar development budgets so they may just laugh at the financial incentive (as they pretty much have already)... but at least they would know who they're laughing at.

    I imagine BlackBerry has detailed information on how many times BBWorld is searched for app titles that don't exist in BBWorld yet. This would be a good metric too.
    07-10-13 05:12 PM
  8. Brandon Orr's Avatar
    I like this idea. Earlier in the day Alec (from BB) was in a thread discussing how at this point BlackBerry needs prospective app users to let developers know that there is actual demand, because they haven't been persuaded by the financial incentives. With this idea; however, it essentially becomes a combined 'demand metric' and 'financial incentive' for developers. In fact, by allowing users to set their own donation amount, it even acts as a price-point focus group for when the app is released. Of course, some of the bigger missing apps are from companies with multi-million dollar development budgets so they may just laugh at the financial incentive (as they pretty much have already)... but at least they would know who they're laughing at.

    I imagine BlackBerry has detailed information on how many times BBWorld is searched for app titles that don't exist in BBWorld yet. This would be a good metric too.
    With current format it also doesn't take into account each user's intrinsic value for an app. One app may feel like it's worth $20 to me but only $1 to you and maybe realistically an average of $2 for most people. This easily lets developers see how much they can charge for their app if they do bring it, based on donation levels received by users. We're they mostly 0.99 or were they mostly 4.99? An email asking a developer doesn't effectively provide this important information for devs. I'm going to see what I can do to get this off the ground. I've helped launch a few startups in Waterloo, so maybe I can legitimately get this going. I'll keep you guys posted.

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    AnimalPak200 likes this.
    07-10-13 05:20 PM
  9. app_Developer's Avatar
    I think this is a fantastic idea, and just the sort of innovative approach that BBRY needs to kickstart the market.

    I would actually write apps under this program if there were a good quality review process in place and the apps had to be native to qualify. That way serious developers aren't competing with repackagers or anyone trying to make a quick buck with junk "apps".
    AnimalPak200 likes this.
    07-10-13 05:51 PM
  10. Brandon Orr's Avatar
    I think this is a fantastic idea, and just the sort of innovative approach that BBRY needs to kickstart the market.

    I would actually write apps under this program if there were a good quality review process in place and the apps had to be native to qualify. That way serious developers aren't competing with repackagers or anyone trying to make a quick buck with junk "apps".
    What if there was an option for donates to choose a certain amount for a port and a different amount for a native app? So that developers could see how much money they would make depending on which route they choose to take, therefore more pressure on them to develop a native app if there is overwhelming demand, but also show them interest to bring the app even if it's an Android port, so at least the consumers get something?

    Posted via CB10
    07-10-13 05:55 PM
  11. diegonei's Avatar
    I like the pre-order idea lol, I really do. Can that be implemented? How would PayPal and/or the CC operator know they are not supposed to charge untill the app is out?

    App development can take any amount of time and deadlines hardly matter for most devs (specially since most are one man companies).
    07-10-13 06:42 PM
  12. AnimalPak200's Avatar
    I like the pre-order idea lol, I really do. Can that be implemented? How would PayPal and/or the CC operator know they are not supposed to charge untill the app is out?

    App development can take any amount of time and deadlines hardly matter for most devs (specially since most are one man companies).
    It's not uncommon. It used to be the norm that Internet stores would not charge your card until they shipped the product.

    Posted via CB10
    07-10-13 07:21 PM
  13. Brandon Orr's Avatar
    I like the pre-order idea lol, I really do. Can that be implemented? How would PayPal and/or the CC operator know they are not supposed to charge untill the app is out?

    App development can take any amount of time and deadlines hardly matter for most devs (specially since most are one man companies).
    I can see it working one of two ways. First is the developer is registered with BlackBerry World and the money isn't transferred until my website or company releases it to the developer. This would require the developer to notify us and provide proof that the app is developed and works as described. I.e. If they say they're going to make an app that makes b day cards it is in fact an app that makes b day cards and isn't just a flashlight app. Once that is done we, in partnership with BlackBerry would release the money and ensure those who signed up have it available.

    The second is for the developer to register and notify us, and if we can't get a partnership with BlackBerry we would transfer the money directly. To the developers.

    Posted via CB10
    07-10-13 07:25 PM
  14. drewread's Avatar
    I like this idea. Earlier in the day Alec (from BB) was in a thread discussing how at this point BlackBerry needs prospective app users to let developers know that there is actual demand, because they haven't been persuaded by the financial incentives. With this idea; however, it essentially becomes a combined 'demand metric' and 'financial incentive' for developers. In fact, by allowing users to set their own donation amount, it even acts as a price-point focus group for when the app is released. Of course, some of the bigger missing apps are from companies with multi-million dollar development budgets so they may just laugh at the financial incentive (as they pretty much have already)... but at least they would know who they're laughing at.

    I imagine BlackBerry has detailed information on how many times BBWorld is searched for app titles that don't exist in BBWorld yet. This would be a good metric too.
    Join our BlackBerry Channel.. we are trying to do just that! pool together too motivate devs by sheer numbers...

    #GetWithBB10 Channel @ C000D7228
    07-10-13 07:29 PM
  15. diegonei's Avatar
    I can see it working one of two ways. First is the developer is registered with BlackBerry World and the money isn't transferred until my website or company releases it to the developer. This would require the developer to notify us and provide proof that the app is developed and works as described. I.e. If they say they're going to make an app that makes b day cards it is in fact an app that makes b day cards and isn't just a flashlight app. Once that is done we, in partnership with BlackBerry would release the money and ensure those who signed up have it available.

    The second is for the developer to register and notify us, and if we can't get a partnership with BlackBerry we would transfer the money directly. To the developers.

    Posted via CB10
    That's not what I asked though.
    07-10-13 07:42 PM
  16. Brandon Orr's Avatar
    I like the pre-order idea lol, I really do. Can that be implemented? How would PayPal and/or the CC operator know they are not supposed to charge untill the app is out?

    App development can take any amount of time and deadlines hardly matter for most devs (specially since most are one man companies).
    There would be a time limit to which the developers have to accept to make the app it which point a reasonable deadline would be set, I can see donations open for a month, then once it's closed the deadline is set, must be less than a year (I would probably have to discuss with some more developers to see what a reasonable time limit for this would be). And then if the app was not received by that date they do not receive the money. This is required to ensure app developers don't just say we'll make one in two years and they just have like 1.5M waiting in the bank. It'll be a process to entice developers to get direct feedback and address it relatively quickly. This gives incentive to the consumers to generate as much money as possible during the one month to attract the developers. What's important is that the developers get monetary indicators as well as useful analytics about price points and numbers of users. So in general there would be time limits placed much like Kickstarter.

    Posted via CB10
    07-10-13 07:48 PM
  17. app_Developer's Avatar
    What if there was an option for donates to choose a certain amount for a port and a different amount for a native app? So that developers could see how much money they would make depending on which route they choose to take, therefore more pressure on them to develop a native app if there is overwhelming demand, but also show them interest to bring the app even if it's an Android port, so at least the consumers get something?

    Posted via CB10
    Yeah, I think something like that would work. I'd personally be much more interested in native, but I can certainly see how you would want room for both.

    One of the reasons (not the only reason) I gave up on BB10 before was because the store is full of so much garbage and the perception is that Blackberry seems more interested in volume there than quality. That is discouraging to developers and designers who prefer to focus on quality work. Think of the designers and developers who make the really great iOS apps that people do love.

    If your scheme makes it easier for quality apps to stand out and be seen, and you can guarantee some reasonable revenue, then I'd be all over that. I doubt my company would participate, but I'd put my own time into it.
    07-10-13 08:25 PM
  18. Brandon Orr's Avatar
    I'd have to devise a way for both Developers to set up their own postings for apps, the ones who are interested in what interest they can generate on a platform, as well as allow consumers and users to post up postings to get the attention of the developers. Will do some work on it and see if I can get something going.
    07-10-13 08:28 PM
  19. Brandon Orr's Avatar
    Yeah, I think something like that would work. I'd personally be much more interested in native, but I can certainly see how you would want room for both.

    One of the reasons (not the only reason) I gave up on BB10 before was because the store is full of so much garbage and the perception is that Blackberry seems more interested in volume there than quality. That is discouraging to developers and designers who prefer to focus on quality work. Think of the designers and developers who make the really great iOS apps that people do love.

    If your scheme makes it easier for quality apps to stand out and be seen, and you can guarantee some reasonable revenue, then I'd be all over that. I doubt my company would participate, but I'd put my own time into it.
    Fully agree. At the end of the day it'll be a bit of input from both sides. Developers can post up their own postings under, a presumably, native category which would allow users to browse apps that developers have shown interest in making native apps. This would allow the consumers and the market to decide which apps there are more of an appetite for. But it also allows, say for instance, a developer who know they can absolutely not develop a native app due to time constraints and doesn't want to put in the effort, BUT is willing to put in the effort to make a port version of the app that will work reasonably well, I think it would be important for both the developer to gauge the interest, as well as the consumers to voice whether or not they want it or not. This is where ultimately the better products or the ones that can attract the most interest or intrinsic value to consumers would thrive.
    07-10-13 08:33 PM
  20. Brandon Orr's Avatar
    Yeah, I think something like that would work. I'd personally be much more interested in native, but I can certainly see how you would want room for both.

    One of the reasons (not the only reason) I gave up on BB10 before was because the store is full of so much garbage and the perception is that Blackberry seems more interested in volume there than quality. That is discouraging to developers and designers who prefer to focus on quality work. Think of the designers and developers who make the really great iOS apps that people do love.

    If your scheme makes it easier for quality apps to stand out and be seen, and you can guarantee some reasonable revenue, then I'd be all over that. I doubt my company would participate, but I'd put my own time into it.
    Also I wouldn't mind chatting with a few of you who have shared their thoughts in here. I will PM you guys and hopefully we can BBM or something so I can pick your brain on what would benefit both the consumers and the developers.
    07-10-13 08:35 PM
  21. mnc76's Avatar
    If it could be setup as you describe, I would be in.

    Posted via CB10
    07-11-13 11:07 PM

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