[Tre Lawrence]

Good post. I agree that there is a state of "app anxiety" that people are suffering from. Unless I was using some business critical software I would hate to be so invested in an ecosystem or unique application that I would fear to move away from it or try something else. For BB10 to have all the big name applications merely puts them in a me too position in a market where they have lost significant momentum and I doubt even then there would be any significant migration to the patform. Having a fully stocked appstore is like trawling a supermarket... I know I'll find what I want but it won't be an liberating or exclusive experience. Maybe BlackBerry need to look away from trying to compete on volume of apps but rather focus on higher quality / niche apps for the "prosumers" and open minded individuals. They should keep promoting the full featured web browsing experience (with Flash) for when the app isn't available, ensure no proprietary lock-in, and provide a level of user experience and security that is second to none.



Posted via CB10

Why would someone want to leave a more productive mobile lifestyle to one less so?

BBRY is paying a late tax. BBOS had more apps than iOS when the original iPhone debuted, and didn't capitalize. Thus, BBRY needs to pry away users that are more or less happy with the platforms they are using. Sadly, this number includes legacy BBOS users.

And, there are options for those who want to try something else. If I want MS Office, there are three platforms I can use.

BB10 isn't one of them.

This "prosumer" stuff is looking to be nothing but a marketing red herring. I don't believe that BBRY itself believes in the segment.

[tmanthib]

Most of it is perception in my opinion and being part of a majority group. Most people are followers and never examine the facts or try something new. This starts in school where you belong to one group or the other or none. For me, BlackBerry offers more apps than I would ever need for now. BlackBerry offers other features that make me want it.

Posted via CB10

[marasavi]

Come on! I don't know why blackberry and every body stills worried about applications, and let people talks about the lack of it. I had Netflix the second day I got my Z10, also Instagram, and Skype, and we chat. Even Candy Crush, all of them works perfect. No phone have the posibilitty to install native programs but also side loaded apps. I don't know why blackberry still, fight with something that is so easy. Make an agreement with Android and make natural the side load in the phone. They can received a commission and immediately will have all applications. Blackberry don't fight in a ring where you are not strong!
I have my BlackBerry because security, efficency (no phone has the contacts hub that BlackBerry have), the Hub are incredible efficient, the keyboard are incredible, the browser, larger better than android and iPhone browser. But stays in the problem of apps, and let everybody talks bad about the lack of them when the operating system works with sideload since was lounched. I can't get it!
They could solved year ago this issue, and stop people talk about app and apps. If they offer the sideload from the beginning you would sold a lot of phones. But I think there still a chance with this new system upgrade you can offer side loaded jelly bean system. What you have is not a lack of apps, but a lack of marketing offering the characteristics that make the phone unique.


Posted via CB10

[bigjman]

I agree that the app situation is somewhat overrated. The marketing team should have realized that not all apps are available and should have focused on the strengths of BlackBerry 10 and what sets it apart from the rest. Dedicate a commercial to the Time Shift camera. Dedicate a commercial to the keyboard. Dedicate a commercial to remote file access. How the heck did we not get any of this??????

We have a marketing failure on our hands. Pure and simple.

Bingo! You hit the nail right on the head. Marketing, which is the same reason why these so-called "must-have apps" are making a consumer stick with a particular os. Most of us on these tech sites see the big picture and know apps aren't everything but the average consumer its a make or break situation because they have been marketed to death where people have to have them (even if they don't need them). On the same token, bb should market what it does do different/better than other OSes (like what you mentioned with time shift and the keyboard) and shove it to the face of people. I remember before bb10 launched and the demos of timeshift and the keyboard were online, I had a few people that weren't even checking for BlackBerry so ready to buy a Z10. Imagine this on a large scale with some dollars thrown behind it (takes a lil money to make a lil more money right?) but with smart marketing to its target base (not these dry commercials we have been getting) something catchy and hip that takes the emphasis off what it can't do at the moment (certain apps) but wow them on what it can do that others don't and show off some of the great apps it does have. Also on the subject of apps, if these big name developers feel it is not worth their time to waste resources on a app for BlackBerry, why don't they a) have BlackBerry developed the app for them (like they do with FaceBook and others) or b) port their Android app over. It takes 10 minutes of their time to do it. For instance Netflix, port the Android app over, even if it only adds 10,000 new subscribers that's 10,000 times $6.99 a month of money they'd be making extra. I don't understand why they or anyone would turn down any extra money for not wanting to spend 10-15 minutes to port the Android app (that's already developed) over. Now a company like Instagram or Vibe that are having issues uploading videos and things that make it fully functional, I cna understand as its a little work to be done. But all the others, the sideloaded versions work great, why not officially port the freakin Android app over to at least test the market for a native app?

[Tre Lawrence]

A great discussion.

I tried Androids and iphones and they were more a novelty for me rather than a daily productivity tool. That's part of it. If you need your phone for work/professional tasks or just need a communications first device, BlackBerry is the way to go. That my opinion on it.

And what is an iPhone without the apps? It's not much and certainly not as complete experience as a BlackBerry without apps out of the box. Sure an android without apps can be modded, hacked, and do a lot without apps. But an iPhone is a mediorce phone at best without the app ecosystem.

While I don't need netflix, instagram, or the other playtime apps on my phone I understand blackberry needs them IF they want to continue to pursue the average mainstream consumer market. I'd like to see Starbucks app and the Tether app on BB10 but I see those as "productivity" apps as one saves time and the other increases usefulness of on the go working.

If playtime apps (and I mean apps for fun like games, movies, sharing photos of your lunch) are something you enjoy then iPhone it up. But without apps the iPhone is nothing.

If productivity and communication are tops on your list then Blackberry is what you want. Because you don't need to download a ton of apps to get a great out of box experience with blackberry.

I tried an iPhone for a few months, after the novelty wore off of netflix and games (It wasn't my thing) it was just a mediocre communication device that did not excel in what I needed it to do.

I think iphones need apps to continue to sell or be embraced, the blackberry by design doesn't and that niche is where blackberry needs to focus.

Posted via CB10 on my Q10

Depends on how you define communication. I respectfully believe that fire a lot of folks, BB10 is the worst all-round communication platform out there at this time.

I agree that without the apps, the iPhone (and Android devices) are not special, but that underlines my point. "Out of the box" means nothing with regards to mobile productivity, because the extended ecosystem all but makes the platform.

[Insync]

I think the issues now concern marketing a platform which is by some perceived as mortally wounded. I don't share that view. I will happily embrace the purchase of a Z30 confident that it will be supported for the economic life of the device.

Posted via CB10

[Antton]

BlackBerry has the best native email app but besides this performance if they have major applications in the Android Market would be the perfect phone

Posted via CB10

[nibu107]

Seriously Netflix n istagram I don't even use both of dem nor do I find any need dat I must hav it BlackBerry needs big games like asphalt 8 need for speed most wanted just bring it out th same time apple gets it dats wat th problem is all apps and dere updates don't come on time like 4 example BlackBerry has now real racing 3 "halaluya" n dere is a porsche update which hasn't come yet 4 th BlackBerry 10 au yes BlackBerry needs sold hardwear th z30 come wit adreno 320 where as th 330 is already out so why think now why not th future u want consumers BlackBerry has to be up to date wit latest tech dats wat consumers need geeks do benchmark test dey wana see dere BlackBerry wit high scores not dere phone wit th lowest scores I still love my z10 BlackBerry rules

Posted via CB10

[armandopr]

I think that marketing problems is the real issue. I'm very pleased with the new offerings of apps in BB10 but people are not aware of this. Today I speak with many IPhone and Samsung users and they still think BlackBerry is only a business phone.

Posted via CB10

[Tre Lawrence]

I think that marketing problems is the real issue. I'm very pleased with the new offerings of apps in BB10 but people are not aware of this. Today I speak with many IPhone and Samsung users and they still think BlackBerry is only a business phone.

Posted via CB10

The issue I have heard Android/iOS users is that BB10 doesn't do enough business.

[facilitymanager]

i believe this to be mainly true but i do get frustrated by some of the excellent productivity apps such as GWABBIT who now i will boycott. i will no longer use there service on my desktop at work or home. i was going to purchase the service for my laptops and workers but as we are all on the Z10 i have no use for there product .

this is the reply i recieved from them -- this is not a instagram or netflix it was a powerful tool now hopefully there is a alterante product available .


Hi Ryan,

Sorry to disappoint, but unfortunately gwabbit is not compatible with the z10 model of BlackBerry. We are actually stepping away from the BlackBerry application due to the market. We are working on iPhone and Android versions of gwabbit, and hope to make those available in the coming year.

Kind regards,

Laurie Shaffer
gwabbit, Inc.
1-888-492-2248, ext. 2
[email protected]
gwabbit


--------------- Original Message ---------------
From:
Sent: 10/3/2013 1:08 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: trouble installing on my blackberry z10
Good morning I still can�t get this to run on my Z10 help please I miss this APP so much


Cheers
Ryan

[crucial bbq]

Well hello....Welcome to CB!!!

I must say, remind me not add you to my Instagram account....I will bore you to tears with pictures of kids, cats, dogs, horses and.....wait for it.....wait for it....CLOUDS!!! I LOVE CLOUDS!!!! But mainly my golden retriever and my border collie. And worse yet, I apply....wait for it....FILTERS!!! OMG!!! Fiters all over the place.

But you see, I have no Annie Liebowitz pretensions. I see something I like and I share it with people who are all as crazy about dogs and horses and even clouds as I am. I'm not a photography expert, but I like to record my memories. And I share them with like minded people who also share THEIR pictures of their dogs and their cats and their kids and their horses. And none of us finds that we are so special that taking a look at a picture is a waste of our time. And since I'm no Annie Liebowitz I haven't got the right to call anyone's pictures "lame." I'm not that high and mighty. I like to see my friends' pictures of their dogs at the lake and their kids at the beach. We're all humans together that way.

Don't want Instagram, don't download it. Yes, it *is* that simple. As to the need for Instagram on BlackBerry.....go through the forums. Take a look at what people are doing to try to get into Instagram.

Me, I see a picture on my friends' feed, I look at it, comment, hit Like. Why? Because people are sharing things that are important to them. And if they are friends of mine, I am willing to take the .25 seconds that it takes to hit Like or say "WOW cool sunrise!!!"

It doesn't take anything away from my day, and I acknowledge a friend. And that makes both of us feel good. Not a terrible thing to do.

Hi! No need to worry about adding me on Instagram, I am not offended. My post was a rant about what I personally do not like Instagram; you dropped the line, I took the bait. I hoped that adding the caveat that I do see great photos on Instagram, that I was indicating I do not fully hate the thing, or the people using it. My initial distaste is a few years old, has largely subsided, and I am aware that I can simply ignore what I do not find appealing. Besides, I am sure I post pics on the various social media sites that leave some thinking WTF!?, why would you waste your time posting this?. I am not be completely on-board with Instagram, but I am not a dummy. I do understand its current importance amongst users, and that there is a healthy desire for it by current, and potentially future, BB10 users.

I do hope that it comes to BB10, mind you.

This actually highlights the big difference.

Android did not have a LOT of the stuff that iOS had back then. The one thing it did have is sales. It didn't have the iOS-only apps, but it did provide a huge value set for folks who wouldn't/couldn't use the iPhone. It provided the best mapping experience, best Gapps experience (and Gapps is huge), diversity of device form, and a burgeoning third-party developer pool. Let's not forget that it also had the second best ecosystem anyhow.

All these, IMHO, combined to give Android the numbers required to force the developers of iOS exclusives to get on the Android bus. Instagram, Angry Birds, Flipboard... even Netflix. They didn't just come aboard because they like Android. They like money.

Which brings us back to BBRY and BB10. Even enthusiasts have asked: what does BB10 bring to the table that is a true value added option? This is why, IMHO, the lull after the original iPhone hurt BBRY in the long run, because it allowed Android to stumble into the position of being the anti-Apple. Successfully.

I remember way back when, i talked to a developer about creating an Android port of his app. He had it on Palm, legacy BBOS, and had just created an iOS version (this was long before BBX/BB10). He didn't see the use pre-FroYo.

Now, he has an Android version, but no BB10 version. Go figure.

I have no doubt in my mind that when the apps are available, BB10 will do better and/because public perception will change. I have not met one person who has disliked the new devices; they just don't want less functionality.

You hit the nail on the head with it being about money. Just because, I, or any other BB10 user can take an .api and run it through a program to turn it into a .bar file, does not mean that developers take a similar approach. It takes a good chunk of change in R&D to figure out if it is even worth it in terms of ROI. Bringing Instagram to BB10, for example, would potentially require more bandwidth, more servers, more maintenance, personnel, perhaps, too, in order to accommodate the potential 1 million new users that would come on board (that is my number...shooting from the hip here). Sure, those at Instagram could quickly port it over to BB10, but can their servers handle the potential strain that the influx of new accounts would surely cause? I dunno...something to think about.

Well to put it simple in my opinion, apps do play a great role in boosting phone sales.

I think sales price has more to do with it. Android only leapt to the top, and they are currently what, 80% of total world sales, because of the free-to-cheap costs of most subsidized handsets. BlackBerry handsets, even though premium devices, where simply subsidized at too high of a price point....in the U.S., anyways. Few people are willing to drop $199 on a phone they feel is dead and/or dying. In my opinion, BlackBerry should have offered their phones for half the subsidized price they were/are asking for for at least the first year. People would be more willing to buy one if they were simply cheaper. It is a catch-22: more customers will bring more apps.

[js0011]

The app situation has a large impact on BlackBerry's ability to compete in this market.

While it's true that more desirable apps can be side loaded, that extra step is an overall inconvenience to the typical consumer seeking a tap&go solution (most consumers are). BlackBerry excels at making things easier for those of us that care more for functionality/productivity, but fails those consumers that are app dependent.

I don't know what BlackBerry's developer app agreements entail, but if I were BlackBerry I would entice developers with a greater % of sales. Or perhaps partner with a mobile giant such as Zynga, Facebook, Amazon, or hell even TMZ to create a product offering that focuses more on content.

Productivity is important, but content is what most consumers crave.

Posted via CB10

[rstevenw]

I talk to people on other platforms and they're not aware that BlackBerry even has an app store. It all goes back to marketing.

Swiping my Z10 like a Genie will pop out.

[gg bb]

5+ years I've been hearing "apps don't matter"

It's like someone who is celibate because no one wants to have sex with them saying "sex is overated!"

No its not. I don't need apps on my desktop or laptop to use a banking websites. But on phones at the moment you need apps to do that because phones were not upto the job only they now are upto the job but people have got all thinking phone specific apps are the only answer.
The analogy with sex is that 'A strap on is over rated'. Apps are just strap ons! You don't need sex aids, you should not need apps!

( 1 x shift ) !~ /^1?$|^(11+?)\1+$/

[tinochiko]

No its not. I don't need apps on my desktop or laptop to use a banking websites. But on phones at the moment you need apps to do that because phones were not upto the job only they now are upto the job but people have got all thinking phone specific apps are the only answer.
The analogy with sex is that 'A strap on is over rated'. Apps are just strap ons! You don't need sex aids, you should not need apps!

( 1 x shift ) !~ /^1?$|^(11+?)\1+$/

app is short for application, a browser is an application, so technically you do need an 'app' to use banking websites..

Kind Regards, Tino Chiko C0008DDD1 TechCraze!

[faheem sofi]

Vr r the apps like viber,tango,instagram,temple run,subway surfers and all...dey shld had come for the bb10.this will relle increase the sales for BlackBerry in india..

Posted via CB10

[Terser Nori]

Commute to work, unless you're taking public transit then you won't use it. And even if you're using public transit, watching a movie while the train or bus sways back and forth will give anyone a headache. Not to mention you can miss your stop if you're not paying attention...which is while you are watching a movie on your phone.

Posted via CB10

I watch movies/videos while on public transport (busses, trams, shuttles). I don't have a problem with the "sway", or missing a stop.

Posted via CB10

[Tre Lawrence]

No its not. I don't need apps on my desktop or laptop to use a banking websites. But on phones at the moment you need apps to do that because phones were not upto the job only they now are upto the job but people have got all thinking phone specific apps are the only answer
The analogy with sex is that 'a strap on is over rated'. Apps are just strap ons

( 1 x shift ) !~ /^1?$|^(11+?)\1+$/

Nah.

What gets lost in all these "app vs browser" battles is one simple fact: the browser itself is an app.

BBRY upgraded theirs to epic proportions, yes, but folks forget that folks on other platforms have been using great browsers for a while now. In fact, a synced mobile browser is a major part of my workflow. I prefer having my searches, bookmarks and even open tabs synced on any browser I use. This is something that cannot be done on BB10's otherwise great browser.

But apps do add value. My favorite example is mobile banking. It's how I can use a bank 2K+ miles away. Another is the CB10 app.

It's one thing to say you don't need an app when it's not available, but it's tough to argue that apps (like the browser) don't make mobile life easier.

[Tre Lawrence]

I talk to people on other platforms and they're not aware that BlackBerry even has an app store. It all goes back to marketing.

Swiping my Z10 like a Genie will pop out.

...then it gets worse when they actually visit BBW... LOL

[sthorntonca]

Honestly, I've saved a boatload since jumping back on the BlackBerry ship. Realizing how much of the app consumption was just compulsion. Apps for the sake of apps, marketed expertly by the Apple Store to keep folks buying and hooked in.

Truly, I can count the apps I really miss on one hand. Not a deal breaker at all, if anything my relationship with my device is much healthier, and productive.

Posted via CB10

[DuexNoir]

I actually agree with the OP that apps, for the most part, is not the major factor that hurt BB10. For certain, the lack of apps does have some effect but it is not the be all end all factor as most people believe.

If apps were all it took for a platform to be successful, than why does most of the other companies using Android (HTC, Sony, Motorola) are not successful. The only successful Android platform is Samsung (and it's the Galaxy mainly).

The major selling point for the top 2 devices (iPhone and Samsung Galaxy) is really that these guys have ingrained into the consumers' mind that they are cool, or that you belong to the well off crowd if you have it. Sort of like the image one attaches to owning an audi or Lexus. It's the rich and the hip image that people flock to. It's an obvious fact, whether you like it or not. I remember a few years back when iPhone was taking off and one journalist questioned an analyst about why the iPhone was becoming so popular and he said that those who have iPhones may not necessarily bought it because they like the product or the brand, but they got it because most of their friends and close circles have it, so they have to have it as well.

What I do agree with many here is the poor marketing skill of BlackBerry. Had they pushed more and for better marketing, they may not be in the hole as they are now. How did Samsung and Apple get that cool image ingrained into people's head? They were good at marketing.

Posted via CB10 on my Z10

[Terser Nori]

I actually agree with the OP that apps, for the most part, is not the major factor that hurt BB10. For certain, the lack of apps does have some effect but it is not the be all end all factor as most people believe.

If apps were all it took for a platform to be successful, than why does most of the other companies using Android (HTC, Sony, Motorola) are not successful. The only successful Android platform is Samsung (and it's the Galaxy mainly).

The major selling point for the top 2 devices (iPhone and Samsung Galaxy) is really that these guys have ingrained into the consumers' mind that they are cool, or that you belong to the well off crowd if you have it. Sort of like the image one attaches to owning an audi or Lexus. It's the rich and the hip image that people flock to. It's an obvious fact, whether you like it or not. I remember a few years back when iPhone was taking off and one journalist questioned an analyst about why the iPhone was becoming so popular and he said that those who have iPhones may not necessarily bought it because they like the product or the brand, but they got it because most of their friends and close circles have it, so they have to have it as well.

What I do agree with many here is the poor marketing skill of BlackBerry. Had they pushed more and for better marketing, they may not be in the hole as they are now. How did Samsung and Apple get that cool image ingrained into people's head? They were good at marketing.

Posted via CB10 on my Z10

Maybe the cool factor has something to do with it, or maybe not. I don't know. All I know that I like my z10, but when it comes down to doing something other than talk/text. I really have to use a different device.

I use an android if I need to plan a route, plan a trip, order food, find a restaurant, book a car, watch a video, play a quick game, jot a quick note (the force is strong within the gapps eco), as a hotspot, basically I use an android for everything that I want to use my z10 for. I wanted my z10 to be my main phone, but now I pretty much use it as a backup giving the limitations that is associated with the lack of quality apps that I use.



Posted via CB10

[Tre Lawrence]

I actually agree with the OP that apps, for the most part, is not the major factor that hurt BB10. For certain, the lack of apps does have some effect but it is not the be all end all factor as most people believe.

If apps were all it took for a platform to be successful, than why does most of the other companies using Android (HTC, Sony, Motorola) are not successful. The only successful Android platform is Samsung (and it's the Galaxy mainly).

You went from comparing platforms to comparing device manufacturers there. there are several reasons why HTC is struggling irrespective of platform, but that's a discussion for another thread.

It's more pertinent to discuss the platforms as a whole. As a whole, Android is doing fantastically; the only reason, IMHO, that Android is killing it is the ecosystem. Folks know they can extend functionality in any price range.

BB10 would struggle, at this point, no matter who used it.

[bbtino]

I use an android if I need to plan a route, plan a trip, order food, find a restaurant, book a car, watch a video, play a quick game, jot a quick note (the force is strong within the gapps eco), as a hotspot, basically I use an android for everything that I want to use my z10 for.

Surely a Z10 does all of these things. Perhaps you prefer to use gapps... but that's down to personal preference rather than a Z10 deficiency?




Posted via CB10