02-12-16 04:51 AM
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  1. David Tyler's Avatar
    ...no reputable company (yes there are charlatans) is at all interested in your personal contacts, or any personal data. They look for trends and patterns... Tying in any personal data ruins statistical analysis.
    You're of course correct; with me, you can use "bias" instead of "ruin," and I'll get it. However, your statement isn't the same as saying the ties to individuals don't exist -- they MUST exist, or Google's claim of "making your internet experience more personal" is just gas. Your argument, as I read it, is the same as claiming NSA dragnet collections of phone call metadata is fine, just fine, because they're just looking for patterns: In either case, the ties to individuals MUST exist, or there's simply no reason to collect the data.

    ...Google gets more press about data gathering, but they are far from being so unique... I don't particularly like it, but it's a part of life, like street cameras with facial recognition... the world continues to change....
    It's part of life because we tolerate it. It's not like we don't have a choice.
    daveycrocket and skstrials like this.
    01-04-16 07:21 PM
  2. hbelkin's Avatar
    You're of course correct; with me, you can use "bias" instead of "ruin," and I'll get it. However, your statement isn't the same as saying the ties to individuals don't exist -- they MUST exist, or Google's claim of "making your internet experience more personal" is just gas. Your argument, as I read it, is the same as claiming NSA dragnet collections of phone call metadata is fine, just fine, because they're just looking for patterns: In either case, the ties to individuals MUST exist, or there's simply no reason to collect the data.
    Google's claim is valid... IF we choose to accept their terms. If you delete all cookies every time you close your browser, and never log into your Google account, (or any other possible partner account) then they can't identify you. All their servers see is an IP address that tells them nothing about who is at the keyboard. They can tell the make and maybe model of your device, what browser you might be using, what part of the country you are connecting from (not down to house, street, or even neighborhood) etc.

    I read an article recently that reported in horror that your unique device network interface (MAC address) is constantly being broadcast if you have wifi on, and that could be able someone with a network of wifi sniffers to track your movements. They, however would still not know WHO you are. On the other hand, your cellphone is constantly polling a huge network of cell towers which allows your carrier to track where you are (otherwise cellphone calling wouldn't work). And guess what? Your cellphone number is exposed, and -- since few people share phones -- that identifies YOU! Ever look at detailed cellphone bill? They know who you called, who called you, when and for how long. Same for texting, picture messages, etc. Yet the same people who obsess over Google gathering coarse-grained marketing data aren't dumping their cellphones and going back to writing letters! :-)

    As for the NSA? Totally different, and not acceptable. From what I understand they did not only store metadata, but actual full voice and data conversations. That is a huge invasion of privacy, even if they never look at your data!


    Posted via CB10
    01-04-16 08:03 PM
  3. hbelkin's Avatar
    K, I'm confused now.

    - You're OK with people staying with BB10.
    - You're not OK with people wanting further BB10 apps and support.
    - You're not OK with people bashing the Priv... does this also include me, who has 2 BB10 devices and zero interest in the Priv? I have reasons why I don't want the Priv, and I want continued BB10 support. Won't be buying a BB android phone, good luck to BB in that endeavour.

    Further confused why we should abandon something we like because the company has started a new direction with a different product... one that we don't particularly want or need.
    There were people who held onto using their horse and wagon well after most moved to automobiles. But eventually the horse died, and there were no more on the market! :-) )

    Posted via CB10
    01-04-16 08:07 PM
  4. jope28's Avatar
    There were people who held onto using their horse and wagon well after most moved to automobiles. But eventually the horse died, and there were no more on the market! :-) )

    Posted via CB10
    Hey, horses are still fun for their specific purposes lol

     Frosty White Q10/.2876 CB10 
    01-04-16 08:13 PM
  5. David Tyler's Avatar
    Google's claim is valid... IF we choose to accept their terms. If you delete all cookies every time you close your browser...
    I can't imagine NOT deleting cookies after each browser session. It's easy and automatic with Firefox.

    On the other hand, your cellphone is constantly polling a huge network of cell towers which allows your carrier to track where you are (otherwise cellphone calling wouldn't work). And guess what? Your cellphone number is exposed, and -- since few people share phones -- that identifies YOU!
    The tone of your correspondence implies you think people reading your posts don't know this... or have never looked at their phone bill, both of which I find moderately amusing -- but anyway, my mobile provider is in the business of providing me with phone service; and their privacy agreement specifically says that (unlike Google and -- as you point out -- others in the analytics biz) they aren't selling my information. In the case of most mobile providers in the US, that privacy agreement has had "except to the NSA" as an unwritten addendum. Am I, in the day and age of databases being hacked with what seems like alarming regularity, comfortable with the records AT&T keeps on my calls..? No, not really -- but on the other hand, AT&T doesn't have access to a tremendous amount of information I exchange via encrypted messaging and emails. Unlike Android apps, AT&T doesn't have the power to record my voice, take photos, or raid my contacts list and calendar.

    As for the NSA? Totally different, and not acceptable. From what I understand they did not only store metadata, but actual full voice and data conversations. That is a huge invasion of privacy, even if they never look at your data!
    I'm laughing because the argument most often used by advocates of warrantless, dragnet metadata collections by the NSA is that such collections are EXACTLY THE SAME as what Google, WasteCrook, and other "technology" companies do. Look; you seem to think I'm somehow arguing that analytics aren't pervasive or that if I just don't use Android, I'll be "off the grid." I'm not. I'm simply stating that I choose NOT to open the contents of my mobile device to Google or anyone else any more than is absolutely necessary. You seem to be arguing we should all just join the Borg Collective -- "resistance is futile" -- and accept what's happening, embracing a world of constant advertising, invasive apps, and no privacy.

    No, thanks -- I'll pass.
    01-04-16 09:02 PM
  6. David Tyler's Avatar
    Hey, horses are still fun for their specific purposes lol

     Frosty White Q10/.2876 CB10 
    They're not extinct, either.
    jope28 likes this.
    01-04-16 09:04 PM
  7. David Tyler's Avatar
    Sorry you missed the intent of my original post.
    Never was really clear on that.
    01-04-16 09:08 PM
  8. southlander's Avatar
    There are many good file managers on Android. Maybe not quite like BB10, but quite capable.
    Interesting. So what can the blackberry file manager do that can't be done on a top Android file manager like say Solid Explorer?

    I use a passport and an android phone by the way. So I'd be interested to know.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    01-04-16 09:10 PM
  9. Dirtymike14's Avatar
    Hey, horses are still fun for their specific purposes lol

     Frosty White Q10/.2876 CB10 
    Yeah, they make awesome glue

    Posted via CB10
    jope28 likes this.
    01-04-16 10:23 PM
  10. jope28's Avatar
    Yeah, they make awesome glue

    Posted via CB10
    That should make a mod "Sticky" this thread.

     Frosty White Q10/.2876 CB10 
    JeepBB likes this.
    01-04-16 10:25 PM
  11. byex's Avatar
    Then why did you ever use a Blackberry? Its systems aren't any more open than Apple's.
    This comment is wrong on soo many levels.
    Let's start with the phone charger and move on up from there.



    Posted via CB10
    01-04-16 10:59 PM
  12. hbelkin's Avatar
    Just want to set the record straight in case some get the wrong impression...

    I think BB10 is the best phone OS by far. Unfortunately it just wasn't a commercial success. I have no argument with anyone who chooses to stay with a BB10 phone. If it still suits your needs, then great!

    If BlackBerry didn't come out with the Priv now, I very well might have just stayed on my Z10 or maybe moved to a Z30. (don't particularly care for the form factor of the Passport or the Classic)

    Personally I doubt that we'll see more than one more BB10 update. And no upgrades of the Android subsystem. Personally I'm not afraid of Google or Android. (I never delete my cookies, I like cookies!) I know there will be frustration over things I had so simply in BB10, but I'll get used to it. I wish BB10 had succeeded. I'd much rather be getting a new BB10 phone.

    If I seemed overly critical of anyone, my sincere apologies. I mean it only as an intellectual debate :-)


    Posted via CB10
    jope28 and daveycrocket like this.
    01-05-16 12:20 AM
  13. IndianTiwari's Avatar
    I have been a Blackberry user since 2008 and has never used any other phone . BB10 fulfills all my needs and helps me make my day in the most efficient and productive manner . I dont need much apps and is comfortable with BB World apps . However , I am also going for the Priv this week ONLY because it is first Blackberry android phone . BB10 however will continue to remain as my first phone always .
    01-05-16 05:25 AM
  14. priteshmt's Avatar
    If you are a power user, and use so many Android apps on your BB10 device, it would rather make sense to keep a separate Android device (a smartphone or a tablet). Though your expressions are genuine / unbiased, but you tend to judge problems of Android just too early. Android device, in my opinion are too resource hungry (requiring more RAM, battery and processor power) and over a period of time they slow-down the device with lots of lag and sluggishness. But BB10 doesnt. I think after using Android device for a year or so, your opinion would be better framed / matured, and I feel your love for BB10 will also grow.

    About iOS, I think it is also a great user experience, I believe. A great hardware meets great OS.
    01-05-16 06:10 AM
  15. murphcid's Avatar
    Agree 100%, you nailed it.

    I've been a BlackBerry power user since their first pagers. Had many devices over the years. Bought a Z10 as soon as it was released. Still using it very heavily.

    However, as much as I agree that BB10 is the best designed OS out there, it simply doesn't cut it any more, and the market didn't accept it. Doesn't matter if that was lack of marketing, app gap, etc. It's just reality.

    Fact is, at least 60% of the apps I use are Android apps. (I have and use well over 100 apps). While most of the apps I needed do run on BB10 (went from side loading, to Snap, to Cobalt's Google store). But none of them run well. They are sluggish. When switching from one to another the wrong app screen sometimes shows up for a few seconds. I OFTEN get all not responding message (hitting wait usually works). Some crash occasionally.

    Even within BB10, I've experienced lots of issues with the contacts app, some with the hub. I've experienced screen freezes, inability to answer a call, extra vibrations after answering call, ... I could go on and on. And yet, if BB10 had made it commercially I'd likely stay with it -- because there would be updates that fix the problems; because more app developers would port to BlackBerry. But that didn't happen. Sometimes the best design just doesn't make it (remember BetaMax video format?)

    I will not move to an iOS device because I hate closed ecosystems with the manufacturer deciding how I should use their device.

    To move to a Z30 or Passport just delays the inevitable, and won't solve my app performance troubles.

    I've played with the Priv at AT&T. I'm not a huge fan of Android, but it gets the job done and it's very configurable. A very healthy app store means I can find a good app for just about any functionality I want. The BlackBerry enhancements are good, and I expect will get better with time. The Priv feels good, works smoothly. I won't lack for much, even though I will miss mostly the tight integration that was in BB10.

    I'm a Verizon customer, so I'm waiting for the Priv. Already bought my Priv holster! I know there will be some issues with the Priv simply because it's something new for BlackBerry. I'm going with it because I like the physical phone, may like going back to a pkb for heavy typing, like the BlackBerry enhancements... and most importantly because I support BlackBerry as a company. I'm willing to put up with a few glitches that I might not have on a Samsung device.

    Posted via CB10
    01-05-16 07:01 AM
  16. RyanGermann's Avatar
    Does Apple support the full NFC standard? Does Apple support Miracast? WiFi Direct? SD cards? USB OTG? Standard connectors? There are many things that BlackBerry 10 devices support that are standards that Apple doesn't support. BlackBerry is far more open than Apple.
    Don't forget the lightning connector, and how terribly bad iTunes is, and the fact that you can't access YOUR DATA on YOUR DEVICE directly.
    Bluenoser63 likes this.
    01-05-16 10:31 AM
  17. lift's Avatar
    I'm on the other side of this I think bb10 is the best "OS" it just doesn't have all the app support which is what hurts it bb10 is easier to navigate and get around on compared to the others. Apps is its achilles heel.
    That's only going to get worse because now people and developers are thinking BB10 is close to end of life with BlackBerry's move to android.
    BlackBerry themselves killed BB10 before they even ended support for it.
    01-05-16 11:31 AM
  18. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    Don't forget the lightning connector, and how terribly bad iTunes is, and the fact that you can't access YOUR DATA on YOUR DEVICE directly.
    Yes to iTunes being horrible. It's the only desktop companion I dislike more than Link.

    Outside the expense, I do like the lightning connector. I don't mind companies doing their own thing if it makes sense, and, IMHO, Apple's current charging solution is the best wired one out there.
    lift likes this.
    01-05-16 11:33 AM
  19. paulbbp's Avatar
    I'm finding that a portion of BlackBerry users just like to hate BlackBerry for some reason or another. If it wasn't the Priv and Android it would be some other reason.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android on Priv.
    01-05-16 11:37 AM
  20. lift's Avatar
    I do like the lightning connector.
    Same here. Small and always plugs in, no matter which way you try.
    01-05-16 11:38 AM
  21. lift's Avatar
    I'm finding that a portion of BlackBerry users just like to hate BlackBerry for some reason or another.
    Not true. At one time I loved them and defended them endlessly. Now with the move to android I am bitter, like many others. The move to android is the death nail to a great OS (BB10). There will be no future app development on BB10 because of fear that the platform is dead or very close to it. That will make the app gap worse and cause a faster decline of BB10 devices. The move to android is not going to save BlackBerry. It is going to kill what was left of it.
    01-05-16 11:41 AM
  22. paulbbp's Avatar
    Not true. At one time I loved them and defended them endlessly. Now with the move to android I am bitter, like many others. The move to android is the death nail to a great OS (BB10). There will be no future app development on BB10 because of fear that the platform is dead or very close to it. That will make the app gap worse and cause a faster decline of BB10 devices. The move to android is not going to save BlackBerry. It is going to kill what was left of it.
    Guess I just don't understand the being bitter part. It's just a phone... it's just an OS... Over the past 30 years I've seen so many cool products come and go.

    Maybe it's just me, I don't let simple things make me bitter or angry. When WebOs went away I shrugged my shoulders and moved on. If BlackBerry hardware goes away I will say oh well and move on. The source of my joy is not all the material things the world has to offer.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android on Priv.
    01-05-16 11:48 AM
  23. lift's Avatar
    Maybe it's just me, I don't let simple things make me bitter or angry. When WebOs went away I shrugged my shoulders and moved on. If BlackBerry hardware goes away I will say oh well and move on.
    I get that. I'm not bitter to the point of rage. It's just sad to see something you really liked go away. Yes, it's not gone yet, but BB10 is just at it's last breath away from being done.
    01-05-16 11:50 AM
  24. paulbbp's Avatar
    I get that. I'm not bitter to the point of rage. It's just sad to see something you really liked go away. Yes, it's not gone yet, but BB10 is just at it's last breath away from being done.
    I do understand disappointment is loosing something you like. There have been so many products over the years I've seen go away.

    I'm sure BlackBerry will continue offering support for the BB10 for many years even though new feature development may cease (not sure). Here is the place where everyone can fulfill a need and scream PLAYBOOK!

    The only thing that frustrates me on this forum is when people just chime in and say Android is junk simply because it's not what they prefer. The fact is Android may not fit some use cases or be preferable to some, but it's not junk or trash. Just like BB10, Windows Phone, or iOS are not junk or trash. Each may or may not meet a preference or use case.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android on Priv.
    Last edited by paulbbp; 01-05-16 at 12:59 PM.
    01-05-16 12:07 PM
  25. shiftymagoo's Avatar
    Then why did you ever use a Blackberry? Its systems aren't any more open than Apple's.
    Try streaming content from your network devices on an IOS device? Not possible really without a paid for app that is still very limited in its capabilities. Try pulling a file from a network computer and then using it in any app on the phone.

    I hear you can use Dropbox but then it's cloud based and still only exists in the Dropbox app on the Apple phone.

    On my BlackBerry I can grab a file save it to my phone and use it in whatever app native or otherwise no problems.

    If BlackBerry 10 was kept up to date with a bit more of a refined android app support it is by far the best combination and therefore best OS available.

    One thing I don't think we as BlackBerry 10 users appreciate enough is that we really have the best of both worlds having access to apk on the bb10 OS.

    Whether you feel the need for apps or not sometimes you are forced by connected devices like cameras, thermostats and all the other tech gear available.

    Posted via CB10
    Bluenoser63 likes this.
    01-05-16 01:01 PM
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