[calyth]

Yes they did. They themselves stopped developing for it. They got rid of many of their developers. They also did a very poor job of offering enticements and generating support from developers. Had they themselves developed apps for the platform, they would have generated more interest in the OS, and developers would have had more reasons to produce apps for the platform.

They marketed poorly, had poor app support initially thereby dampening the initial response to the product. Initially it looked like a good product that would do well, then those who switched quickly fled due to a lack of support from developers, and poor apps from Blackberry themselves, and others decided to stay away.

BB10 was a rush job at launch that's at least 2 years too late. By then the developers aren't keen to take on a 3rd platform that don't yield them a lot of eye balls.

Ecosystem on smartphones isn't really about whether they're easy to code or has great support, it's about how much the developer could reach. When iOS and Android gives you 90% reach, why bother to work on the remaining 10%? And if you're the remaining "10%" (and I'm being generous), how much money do they have to throw at people to entice them?

[bb10adopter111]

LOL you think getting a BB10 is granting you as much privacy as possible.

Go read up on Snowden. If you truly value it, just the fact that you have a mobile phone goes a long long way.

The issue is privacy from whom. Personally, I'm much more concerned about keeping my data out of the hands of marketing companies and criminals than I am worried about some government security analyst performing an analysis of aggregated network connections that might include a few of my communications.

I agree that the NSA overreached without proper public debate and legal authority, but I am much more comfortable with the NSA, whose interests are national security, having my data than with the other denizens of the Internet, who want my money and identity.

Posted via CB10

[Michael_Stewart]

I like apps and operating systems, my BB10 phone runs more apps than the Priv does.

My BB10 phone has a 4400mah removable battery, the Priv does not. What does the Priv have? It has glove mode. And a 2mp front facing camera.

Nothing wrong with having a pocket warmer, but the Priv I demoed the other day at the AT&T store got quite toasty, and worst of all, it was running Android. Android can't run BlackBerry World apps, duh.

[Zeratul57]

I agree. People should care more. If it were 10 years ago and people were frustrated with googles services they would be sued by the feds for anti trust violations just like we did to Microsoft. Since google is cooperating with NSA and feds, they are given the green light to fleece the american people and take, collect, use and spy on the general public with absolutely no restrictions in some cases. Those citizens who buck this trend are criticized by paid actors and employees of google inc.

Class Action Lawsuit. Anti trust violations We did it to Microsoft for less.

[BlackberryFan777]

I've been a BlackBerry power user since their first pagers. Had many devices over the years. Bought a Z10 as soon as it was released. Still using it very heavily.

However, as much as I agree that BB10 is the best designed OS out there, it simply doesn't cut it any more, and the market didn't accept it. Doesn't matter if that was lack of marketing, app gap, etc. It's just reality.

Fact is, at least 60% of the apps I use are Android apps. (I have and use well over 100 apps). While most of the apps I needed do run on BB10 (went from side loading, to Snap, to Cobalt's Google store). But none of them run well. They are sluggish. When switching from one to another the wrong app screen sometimes shows up for a few seconds. I OFTEN get all not responding message (hitting wait usually works). Some crash occasionally.

Even within BB10, I've experienced lots of issues with the contacts app, some with the hub. I've experienced screen freezes, inability to answer a call, extra vibrations after answering call, ... I could go on and on. And yet, if BB10 had made it commercially I'd likely stay with it -- because there would be updates that fix the problems; because more app developers would port to BlackBerry. But that didn't happen. Sometimes the best design just doesn't make it (remember BetaMax video format?)

I will not move to an iOS device because I hate closed ecosystems with the manufacturer deciding how I should use their device.

To move to a Z30 or Passport just delays the inevitable, and won't solve my app performance troubles.

I've played with the Priv at AT&T. I'm not a huge fan of Android, but it gets the job done and it's very configurable. A very healthy app store means I can find a good app for just about any functionality I want. The BlackBerry enhancements are good, and I expect will get better with time. The Priv feels good, works smoothly. I won't lack for much, even though I will miss mostly the tight integration that was in BB10.

I'm a Verizon customer, so I'm waiting for the Priv. Already bought my Priv holster! I know there will be some issues with the Priv simply because it's something new for BlackBerry. I'm going with it because I like the physical phone, may like going back to a pkb for heavy typing, like the BlackBerry enhancements... and most importantly because I support BlackBerry as a company. I'm willing to put up with a few glitches that I might not have on a Samsung device.

Posted via CB10

I don't get why you should buy a BlackBerry if you want an Android phone. That's just stupid. It would be one thing if you believed in BlackBerry as a platform and wanted to see how BB10 would grow and develop to provide unique features and benefits, but if you want an Android device instead of a BlackBerry, buy a Nexus 6p -- it's objectively better than the Priv in pretty much every way. Or you can wait just a few weeks after the Priv comes to Verizon and get an Android phone with an 820 processor -- which will not only be much, much faster than the Priv's 808, but have a better GPU, too. Also, you might want to rethink your opposition to iOS -- the iPhone 7 is going to be awesome if rumors are true. I could argue that it's more aligned with BlackBerry's values than the Priv. And, I don't really understand the whole "closed system" bit as an argument against iOS -- what do you think your BlackBerryOS and BlackBerry 10 devices were?

[PHughes]

BB10 was a rush job at launch that's at least 2 years too late. By then the developers aren't keen to take on a 3rd platform that don't yield them a lot of eye balls.

Ecosystem on smartphones isn't really about whether they're easy to code or has great support, it's about how much the developer could reach. When iOS and Android gives you 90% reach, why bother to work on the remaining 10%? And if you're the remaining "10%" (and I'm being generous), how much money do they have to throw at people to entice them?

And that is why Blackberry needed to do a better job of offering incentives to developers, and more importantly, they should have done more development on their own so that the new adopters of BB10 would have been satisfied and those thinking about adopting the platform would have had a reason to make the switch. They could have increased their numbers more easily at the launch had they done that. Unfortunately, the launch did not go well, and negative press was generated, deterring people from moving to BB10. They screwed up in the beginning, and continued to make poor decisions related to BB10 development. As simple app like Facebook is a prime example.

[PHughes]

LOL you think getting a BB10 is granting you as much privacy as possible.

Go read up on Snowden. If you truly value it, just the fact that you have a mobile phone goes a long long way.

Blackberry doesn't sell you as a product, Google does. With BB10, you can also selectively accept or deny permissions, with Android, at the moment you cannot. Once you can in Android, you will still not be able to stop Google's privacy intrusion. If you don't mind, then great for you, but many of us do mind, and prefer to deal with a company that better respects our privacy.

[bimmin]

All their servers see is an IP address that tells them nothing about who is at the keyboard.
Posted via CB10

You act like two databases could never be put together. An IP address in itself cannot uniquely identify someone, but if you put the data with other data it can.

Personally, I think all tracking should be by consent only. The digital advertising industry should not be allowed to track people across the web unless they have received consent to do so.

[bimmin]

LOL you think getting a BB10 is granting you as much privacy as possible.

Go read up on Snowden. If you truly value it, just the fact that you have a mobile phone goes a long long way.

Yes. Companies like Google and Facebook are able to track the majority of the worlds pageviews regardless if you have an account with said companies or regardless if you are using a blackberry phone or windows computer or a tablet. This is only because the digital advertising industry is not regulated. If companies were doing the same thing on the phone lines it would be considered wiretapping and is very illegal. But it has yet to be illegal on the internet probably due to the espionage data our government gets from these digital advertisers.

[calyth]

Yes. Companies like Google and Facebook are able to track the majority of the worlds pageviews regardless if you have an account with said companies or regardless if you are using a blackberry phone or windows computer or a tablet. This is only because the digital advertising industry is not regulated. If companies were doing the same thing on the phone lines it would be considered wiretapping and is very illegal. But it has yet to be illegal on the internet probably due to the espionage data our government gets from these digital advertisers.

That's not what I mean. They're hooked in to cell networks. They can triangulate you pretty well, regardless which brand of phone you use.

Throw a stingray into the mix, forcing you to 2G and they can listen into your calls, SMS, data transfers, etc.

At least on the Priv, you could lock out and not use 2G.

[calyth]

Blackberry doesn't sell you as a product, Google does. With BB10, you can also selectively accept or deny permissions, with Android, at the moment you cannot. Once you can in Android, you will still not be able to stop Google's privacy intrusion. If you don't mind, then great for you, but many of us do mind, and prefer to deal with a company that better respects our privacy.

Android M lets you accept and deny permissions. It was bad design up front that cost them time and talent to figure out how to fix without breaking everything.

What google does is they offer you a bunch of very useful services for a lot of people, which a) requires some kind of personally identifable information, and b) they probably uses that information to help with other products (such as Google Voice to improve their voice recognition). As to selling you as a product, at least at first blush, what you do on an Android phone doesn't seem to influence Google search ads, but your search history though google.com does.

You can't have it both ways, where someone puts in a lot of legwork for good features (Maps is definitely one example), and not somehow get compensation for it. If people aren't willing to pay up front, they'll have to find some way to make it.

If anything, at least they're not nearly as rampant as Facebook on how they gather data and how they use it. They definitely suck data off Whatsapp and use it as suggestion for friends on facebook. I'm sure they've done similar things with other companies they've acquired.

And prove to me that BlackBerry better respects your privacy. You don't get to just assert that without prove, other than stating that BlackBerry doens't sell you as a product. So how do they secure themselves so that information that they have to gather doesn't get hacked?

[calyth]

And that is why Blackberry needed to do a better job of offering incentives to developers, and more importantly, they should have done more development on their own so that the new adopters of BB10 would have been satisfied and those thinking about adopting the platform would have had a reason to make the switch. They could have increased their numbers more easily at the launch had they done that. Unfortunately, the launch did not go well, and negative press was generated, deterring people from moving to BB10. They screwed up in the beginning, and continued to make poor decisions related to BB10 development. As simple app like Facebook is a prime example.

You can't dump cash in front of your developers and completely buy your way out of low ecosystem market share. Even if you go down that route, there are bigger players with deeper pockets that could out-muscle you very easily (i.e Microsoft). Look up the story of Instagram on Windows Phone some time. The app is basically written by microsoft, and they just want their presence enough to dump cash at them until they cave.

So how many times can BlackBerry pull the same stunt, when they have less cash than Microsoft, less staff than Microsoft? Heck, who the hell did you think wrote the Facebook app? At least in BB7 land, that's not Facebook, that's for sure.

[Marcin Dabrowsky]

If you cannot live without 7649 different variations of a fart app, bb10 isn't for you. If all you care about is snapchatting all day bb10 isn't for you. If you're a professional that needs the ultimate communications device that's secure and won't slow you down, bb10 will continue to be the best choice for some years to come. I just bought another SE and plan on keeping it till it dies or a new bb10 specialty device comes out.

Posted via CB10

[calyth]

The issue is privacy from whom. Personally, I'm much more concerned about keeping my data out of the hands of marketing companies and criminals than I am worried about some government security analyst performing an analysis of aggregated network connections that might include a few of my communications.

I agree that the NSA overreached without proper public debate and legal authority, but I am much more comfortable with the NSA, whose interests are national security, having my data than with the other denizens of the Internet, who want my money and identity.

Posted via CB10

Your response is mostly fair. Though it's not just the NSA that you should be concerned. Stingrays can basically tap into what you say and roughly where you are. They could be built by nefarious hackers, if so desired, and I know that in China phones get hacked using similair techniques by criminials, not state actors.

[anon(2313227)]

There are still people defending Beta and Palms.

Technologically they are right with Betas. Palm not so much.

[Tre Lawrence]

If you cannot live without 7649 different variations of a fart app, bb10 isn't for you. If all you care about is snapchatting all day bb10 isn't for you. If you're a professional that needs the ultimate communications device that's secure and won't slow you down, bb10 will continue to be the best choice for some years to come. I just bought another SE and plan on keeping it till it dies or a new bb10 specialty device comes out.

There are just about that number of fat apps available to BB10 users... native no less.

When you tack on the runtime, BB10 is arguably the most stocked platform for flatulence software lovers.

[GadgetTravel]

If you cannot live without 7649 different variations of a fart app, bb10 isn't for you. If all you care about is snapchatting all day bb10 isn't for you. If you're a professional that needs the ultimate communications device that's secure and won't slow you down, bb10 will continue to be the best choice for some years to come. I just bought another SE and plan on keeping it till it dies or a new bb10 specialty device comes out.

Posted via CB10

Every time I buy a BB10 device (for the keyboard) I get incredibly frustrated by the lack of good business productivity apps and switch back to android or iOS, primarily the latter.

[anon(2313227)]

There are just about that number of fat apps available to BB10 users... native no less.

When you tack on the runtime, BB10 is arguably the most stocked platform for flatulence software lovers.

Not everything in Appworld is Native. but yes just in theory, Android runtime + Native does imply BB10 has more than at least Android. Doesn't means Apple can't king.

[bb10adopter111]

Every time I buy a BB10 device (for the keyboard) I get incredibly frustrated by the lack of good business productivity apps and switch back to android or iOS, primarily the latter.

Could you please provide some specifics? I'm not challenging you. I would just like to know what business apps people find indispensable these days.

Posted via CB10

[Elephant_Canyon]

If you cannot live without 7649 different variations of a fart app, bb10 isn't for you.

What is it with Blackberry fans' obsession with fart apps?

[Tre Lawrence]

What is it with Blackberry fans' obsession with fart apps?

It's fascinating.


For the most part, I think most folks are past that. Every once in a blue moon, someone invokes it. Kinda like the "tools, not toys" comedy.

[GadgetTravel]

It's fascinating.


For the most part, I think most folks are past that. Every once in a blue moon, someone invokes it. Kinda like the "tools, not toys" comedy.

I have learned more about the limitations of android and Apple phones here than I have in using them for years.

[ray689]

Do what you want, but I don't want a company snooping on my phone, for legitimate reasons. I am fully aware there are privacy issues with other things as well, but my phone has more sensitive information, and some people's phone numbers who wish to remain private.

You are free to do whatever you want though. I do use android as well, but I have a rooted tablet and I use it for only a very specific purpose, and I don't have sensitive information on it. The file managers available still do not match what you can do on BB10 with the inured file manager. Android is a clunky cobbled together OS. I have the tablet, and my wife has an S4. Overall, the s4 is nice, but it is easier to do basically everything on my Z10.

I choose to keep as much privacy as possible. With Android, you pay to be their product.

Posted via CB10

Can't argue the privacy issues but you are wrong with the file managers. I'm fact, some can do more then built in file manager on BB10. As for being clunky, haven't noticed that at all.

Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android

[ray689]

Could you please provide some specifics? I'm not challenging you. I would just like to know what business apps people find indispensable these days.

Posted via CB10

I wasn't the one you asked the question to but I can answer. My company uses Google Drive and docs/chat for collaboration on documents as we have offices across the country. It is a constant part of my day and previously while travelling I would have a very hard time working and found myself trying to find airport or hotel WiFi to get work done on lap top or surface. In that sense, the Priv has made me much more productive then my Passport.

Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android

[bb10adopter111]

I wasn't the one you asked the question to but I can answer. My company uses Google Drive and docs/chat for collaboration on documents as we have offices across the country. It is a constant part of my day and previously while travelling I would have a very hard time working and found myself trying to find airport or hotel WiFi to get work done on lap top or surface. In that sense, the Priv has made me much more productive then my Passport.

Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android

Yeah. There's no question that anyone working in a Google drive/apps shop is better off on an Android phone.

Posted via CB10