1. s0cializam's Avatar
    Hi, I am using the q10 and I am using bbm of course

    How secure is bbm? Whatsapp isn't secure or SMS or skype. But what about the bbm? Are they listening to bbm? Is bbm crypted?

    Thanks.

    Posted via CB10
    07-21-13 02:14 PM
  2. bbschorsch's Avatar
    Probably not as secure ad we think it is... sadly but PRISM gets everything.
    Just have a look at the UK and India

    Posted via CB10
    07-21-13 02:16 PM
  3. s0cializam's Avatar
    Thats why I'm asking. So also the bbm is not secure they see and herte everything.

    Posted via CB10
    07-21-13 02:22 PM
  4. SDTRMG's Avatar
    Bbm is very secure it still goes through blackberrys NOC sever which they use for BES and remaining BIS accounts.
    07-21-13 02:26 PM
  5. Poirots Progeny's Avatar
    They see everything everywhere - the best you can do is encrypt text via pgp or some other system and send it to the recipient (who u have given the key personally - ie NOT electronically) and remember they'll sniff it, though they may not be able to read it.

    What do you need it for anyway?

    If it's important don't use electrinica!

    Or use android, open vpn with pgp for the text etc. That's some long convoluted method to send yer shopping list!! I joke ;-)

    Sorry I can't be of more help, but with any commercial messaging system; everything can be compromised. Doesn't mean they are reading it. But it can be seen.

    Carrier pigions or smoke signals might be an alternative! Lol

    Posted via CB10 on my BlackBerry Q10
    07-21-13 02:29 PM
  6. jpvj's Avatar
    Hi, I am using the q10 and I am using bbm of course

    How secure is bbm? Whatsapp isn't secure or SMS or skype. But what about the bbm? Are they listening to bbm? Is bbm crypted?

    Thanks.

    Posted via CB10
    Short answer: No.

    Very long answer ... and a lot more :-)

    BBM is based on PIN messages. A PIN message is a message delivered from one PIN number to another. Kind of like a text message but through the BlackBerry Infrastructure (BBI)

    Each message is transported using the SRP (Service Relay Protocol) through the BlackBerry Infrastructure: BB1<->BBI<->BB2
    The last info I got from RIM about 1 ago was that the payload was DES encrypted. Today this means "not secure" as DES can be decrypted almost realtime.

    Often BBM/PIN trafic is reffered to as "scrambled". I think this means "not immediately readable for the human eye" but definitively not cryptographic secure.

    Even though it does not seem very hard to break, it seems that certain "govermental institutions" (Pakistan, India, UAE etc.) had problems deciphering and decrypting the traffic. E.g. Esitalat tried to trick users to install spyware for intercepting BBM and PIN messages (as far as I remember). The software seemed to have been delivered by SS8 and was a complete failure. One example of the analysis is available here: BlackBerry Spyware Dissected. RIM finally had to create a removal tool to be execurted by end users.

    Finally RIM was forced to setup relay services in the respective countries (to keep traffic domestic) and deliver plain text content on request (="according to regional laws etc.")

    This has never been public stated by RIM, because "If they work with any intelligence service, they can not comment on it".

    PS: I know RIM today is BlackBerry but at the time this started, they were called RIM.
    smaniatos and s0cializam like this.
    07-21-13 02:35 PM
  7. jpvj's Avatar
    PS: For the legacy BB devices an application existed to add AES encryption for BBM.

    I just searched an found a similar app for BB10: SendCryption encrypts BlackBerry 10 emails/SMS/BBM messages | BlackBerry Z10 case

    I never tried it or know it so it's all up to you to trust it!
    smaniatos likes this.
    07-21-13 02:38 PM
  8. Poirots Progeny's Avatar
    Very good and in depth response - thanks for that!

    And yeah - use it if you want, just remember there is nothing illegal in these people going through your stuff.

    Bottom line expect no privacy or become a luddite.

    Posted via CB10 on my BlackBerry Q10
    07-21-13 02:58 PM
  9. Kris Simundson's Avatar
    Have to agree, if you have to worry if BBM is secure or not, you shouldn't be discussing it.

    Posted via CB10
    rallen562 likes this.
    07-21-13 03:10 PM
  10. belarkan's Avatar
    If you want to try secure end to end chat, you can sideload Gibberbot.
    I tried and it works

    Posted via CB10
    07-21-13 05:22 PM
  11. bbschorsch's Avatar
    The big question is secured against whom? NSA etc? No
    Secure enough to protect you from basic hacks from "normal" hackers - probably yes.

    And if you compare it to WhatsApp etc you have to say it is much more secure.
    But you won't get 100% BlackBerry is quite high BES is better than BIS and fiber WhatsApp and all the others are at the bottom in terms of security levels

    Posted via CB10
    Yakuglas12 likes this.
    07-21-13 05:55 PM
  12. s0cializam's Avatar
    Thanks for the explanations

    Posted via CB10
    07-31-13 11:11 AM
  13. fbgh1113's Avatar
    So BBM is the only application that uses BIS (or the blackberry server now)?
    Even for video calls and voice calls BBM does use the blackberry server? Is this possible since there is more data being consumed? Can the blackberry server handle this?
    08-04-13 03:57 AM
  14. Richard Buckley's Avatar
    So BBM is the only application that uses BIS (or the blackberry server now)?
    Even for video calls and voice calls BBM does use the blackberry server? Is this possible since there is more data being consumed? Can the blackberry server handle this?
    That assumption is not necessarily valid. But assuming it is, streaming video chat in and out of a server is not as big a burden as you might think. It will consume lots of bandwidth, but nothing is done to the stream on the way by. Skype does this since MS bought it.

    They could use a more efficient protocol of just allowing clients to find each other, then communicate directly when possible. Skype used to do this.

    Posted via CB10
    08-04-13 10:33 AM

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