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  1. MBrettH's Avatar
    I had copied a folder to a different directory on my Passport, but when I deleted the original folder and videos, it also deleted the same folder and videos in the new location.
    08-05-19 02:27 AM
  2. spARTacus's Avatar
    Were they on the SD card? Maybe you could pop it out and try and see what one of those un-delete programs might find on it. However, not sure if that would just mess up the card worse.

    Posted via CB10 on Z10
    MBrettH likes this.
    08-05-19 05:42 AM
  3. MBrettH's Avatar
    I have the card encrypted, so that won't work. I'm hoping that if I access the card in mass storage mode via desktop, then I can locate the files like you said, with recovery software.

    if that doesn't work, I will be back! wish me luck.
    08-06-19 03:06 PM
  4. TrumpetTiger's Avatar
    I have the card encrypted, so that won't work. I'm hoping that if I access the card in mass storage mode via desktop, then I can locate the files like you said, with recovery software.

    if that doesn't work, I will be back! wish me luck.
    Hey MBrett,

    Sounds like you know this but definitely don't remove or do anything with the SD Card given the encryption. If you have any trouble accessing the card via Mass Storage Mode you could also try checking via direct wireless device access and seeing if the files are really gone in both places. Unless you had some sort of weird syncing going on there should be no reason why deleting in one place should result in deleting in another.

    No backups of this folder I assume?
    MBrettH likes this.
    08-06-19 04:52 PM
  5. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    If your SD card is encrypted, then any files deleted from the SD card are gone forever, because the information needed to decrypt those files was also deleted. Even if some recovery software could "undelete" the files, it would be useless gibberish. This is how encryption works, and not being able to recover deleted files is by design and vital to security - encryption would be pointless if it didn't work this way.

    If those files were originally on your phone's internal storage, and if that isn't encrypted, AND if those sectors haven't been overwritten yet, it might be possible to recover them there, but that's a lot of "if's". If the files were always only on your encrypted SD card, they're gone forever.

    The rule is always that encrypted data must always be backed up - in UNencrypted form - on a regular basis, because there are lots of ways to lose those files, and encryption makes it more likely to lose them and generally impossible to recover them if something goes wrong.
    08-07-19 01:57 AM
  6. MBrettH's Avatar
    Hey, TT. Thanks for responding. Connecting to PC via mass storage mode was the ticket. Using Recuva software, I was able to undelete all of the video files that were deleted.

    What's weird, is that after I created the folder and moved all of the videos from the PC desktop to the phone's SD card, I discovered that the folder is again appearing in the desired location and in the original location which I had intended to move those files from.

    What I believe is that there is only one copy of those files (I could find out by monitoring my total storage available), but there are two locations presenting for some reason.

    I'm not an expert, but I think this glitch has something to do with temporary files. Data transfer speeds are sometimes faster than encryption speed, so I think this is why I often notice temp files being used--to store the download data until the encryption program has time to get to it.

    I think that I may have deleted or moved a folder shortly after creating it at one point (but after placing fies within), not realizing that the location was still being used by another program. Somehow this resulted in the one physical location being represented in my directory in two places, because the OS never cleaned up the old temp files confusion that I created? That's my guess, anyway.

    One day, I will try to fix it by creating a new folder with a different name to move those videos into, and delete the disfunctional twin folders. After some time goes by, hopefully those old folders and temp folders will all be overwritten, and I can use that folder name again without conjuring it's shadow.
    Last edited by MBrettH; 08-09-19 at 12:23 AM. Reason: Banned word. :/
    08-08-19 11:56 PM
  7. MBrettH's Avatar
    Hey Troy. Thanks for your response.

    I actually was successful recovering the lost files from my encrypted SD card.

    Where you erred is when you said, "... the information needed to decrypt those files was also deleted." You could be correct if I had encrypted each file individually with different keys before storing them, but I did not. As long as the encrypted card is still in the device which encrypted it, the encryption key will not be lost. When I connected the device to a PC in mass storage mode, the PC queried me for my device password, which is what the phone uses as the key to encrypt the card storage, the same as it uses to encrypt it's native storage. Thus, once the deleted files were found, the phone was decrypting them as they were transferred to the PC.

    "The rule is always that encrypted data must always be backed up - in UNencrypted form - on a regular basis."

    This would defeat the whole purpose of encryption in the first place. If you don't want data read by strangers, why leave unsecured copies laying around?

    I have a common password that I use (so that I won't forget it) to encrypt all backups that I create, whether it's a single word file on my computer or a backup drive in my safe.
    08-09-19 12:22 AM
  8. MBrettH's Avatar
    To follow up on the encryption topic, I saw a message on the Passport that I had never seen before. Once I disconnected it from the PC, it informed me (paraphrasing) that it was encrypting the recently transferred data, and that this operation may take several minutes.

    I guess that the volume of data transferred triggered this (small files would have already been done), and it made me think: If I had gotten a similar message while I was moving folders and files and simultaneously downloading from YouTube on my Passport, I probably would never have caused the evil folder gremlin to bite me in the first place!
    Last edited by MBrettH; 08-09-19 at 12:41 AM. Reason: Paragraph break.
    08-09-19 12:39 AM
  9. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Hey Troy. Thanks for your response.

    I actually was successful recovering the lost files from my encrypted SD card.

    Where you erred is when you said, "... the information needed to decrypt those files was also deleted." You could be correct if I had encrypted each file individually with different keys before storing them, but I did not. As long as the encrypted card is still in the device which encrypted it, the encryption key will not be lost. When I connected the device to a PC in mass storage mode, the PC queried me for my device password, which is what the phone uses as the key to encrypt the card storage, the same as it uses to encrypt it's native storage. Thus, once the deleted files were found, the phone was decrypting them as they were transferred to the PC.

    "The rule is always that encrypted data must always be backed up - in UNencrypted form - on a regular basis."

    This would defeat the whole purpose of encryption in the first place. If you don't want data read by strangers, why leave unsecured copies laying around?

    I have a common password that I use (so that I won't forget it) to encrypt all backups that I create, whether it's a single word file on my computer or a backup drive in my safe.
    Glad that worked for you....

    Others have tried using recovery software via Mass Storage and it didn't work. Maybe something else was going on, other then the system deleted the files?

    Think he meant backing up to something strangers don't have access too. We see a lot of folks here that don't get encryption and they loose data (SD Card fail). So for most it's a good idea. If you use encryption a lot and always have backups that have keys accessible via other systems... that the way to go.
    08-09-19 11:17 AM
  10. TrumpetTiger's Avatar
    Hey, TT. Thanks for responding. Connecting to PC via mass storage mode was the ticket. Using Recuva software, I was able to undelete all of the video files that were deleted.

    What's weird, is that after I created the folder and moved all of the videos from the PC desktop to the phone's SD card, I discovered that the folder is again appearing in the desired location and in the original location which I had intended to move those files from.

    What I believe is that there is only one copy of those files (I could find out by monitoring my total storage available), but there are two locations presenting for some reason.

    I'm not an expert, but I think this glitch has something to do with temporary files. Data transfer speeds are sometimes faster than encryption speed, so I think this is why I often notice temp files being used--to store the download data until the encryption program has time to get to it.

    I think that I may have deleted or moved a folder shortly after creating it at one point (but after placing fies within), not realizing that the location was still being used by another program. Somehow this resulted in the one physical location being represented in my directory in two places, because the OS never cleaned up the old temp files confusion that I created? That's my guess, anyway.

    One day, I will try to fix it by creating a new folder with a different name to move those videos into, and delete the disfunctional twin folders. After some time goes by, hopefully those old folders and temp folders will all be overwritten, and I can use that folder name again without conjuring it's shadow.
    Hey MBrett,

    You're quite welcome! Glad to hear you were able to recover the files.

    It's possible that you may be right about temporary files, but I lean more towards symbolic links--in other words, there is only one copy of the files, but one of the locations is symbolically pointing towards the real location where the files actually live. If you let me know the actual relative paths I could speak to that more definitively.

    By the way, you're absolutely right in your post to Troy. However, in his minor defense, if you modify the file system before attempting to recover files (say, by copying files over to the encrypted card from your PC) odds are good that because the underlying encrypted file system structure has changed you might not be able to recover files that were deleted prior to the changes.

    In any case, all's well that ends well!
    08-10-19 12:42 AM

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