06-22-15 03:16 PM
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  1. calicocat2010's Avatar
    ...but is being futuristic or innovative better than actually selling devices and making money? If a full-slab BB10 device was released in two forms: one WITH anyone WITHOUT a home button, which would sell better, and more importantly, which would increase BB10 market share (bring users from other platforms to BB10)?

    Posted via CB10
    Well first off Being unique and innovative is what BlackBerry decided to do with the Passport as It's So much different than every device out there. It got Buzz because Lots of people were talking about it. 2) If BB only gave a better tutorial out of the box people wouldn't be so scared of change or think to send them back because they don't understand how to use them. Who wouldn't want a cool futuristic phone in their hands and have everyone be Jealous because of it? With Marketing, GOD forbid they hire a team to do that , they would be recognized as the new BB, and not the old BB that people still believe they are because they've never Heard of BB10 or thought BB was out of business.
    06-16-15 09:42 PM
  2. already_registered's Avatar
    I keep having colleagues and friends leave for android and iPhone6..
    ..I feel so sad and lonely...
    There's no BB around me.
    What am I gonna do?
    Anyone???


    Posted via CB10
    06-16-15 11:02 PM
  3. RyanGermann's Avatar
    Well first off Being unique and innovative is what BlackBerry decided to do with the Passport as It's So much different than every device out there. It got Buzz because Lots of people were talking about it. 2) If BB only gave a better tutorial out of the box people wouldn't be so scared of change or think to send them back because they don't understand how to use them. Who wouldn't want a cool futuristic phone in their hands and have everyone be Jealous because of it? With Marketing, GOD forbid they hire a team to do that , they would be recognized as the new BB, and not the old BB that people still believe they are because they've never Heard of BB10 or thought BB was out of business.
    Fine, not every device needs a home button... I certainly don't need one... But if BB did release ONE full touch device with a home button, people probably wouldn't need tutorials. This is a Usability 101 failing grade of BB10 that could be easily resolved with ONE device (ok, one premium and one low-cost) with a home button that any iOS or Android user would know how to use WITHOUT easily-ignored tutorials.
    06-17-15 12:12 AM
  4. calicocat2010's Avatar
    Actually I think most of the complaints was about the gestures and swipes that people just couldn't understand. However, I don't know if you saw this BlackBerry video they did, but the Team brings in several random people and put them in these classrooms. Each person received a BlackBerry 10 phone and didn't know How to wake the screen. People are used to a Home button . It's been like that for years. BB was trying to deviate from the norm, it just didn't go successfully as planned because BB10 is not interesting to the masses.

    I certainly love not having a home button, but I am using my Note 3 and well it lags sometimes when I try to go back to the homescreen. LOVE BB10, just wish others did too.
    06-17-15 12:38 AM
  5. markus2107's Avatar
    Well, let me try to add my opinion on this...

    Gestures:
    The gestures used by OS10 are fare superior to Android and IOS. The Missing virtual/physical buttons on the bottom help to widen the screen real estate. So I think that's a plus. (Wich would probably go away If BB moves to Android) And this one little gesture - the swipe up from the bottom - isn't that hard to learn. There's just one inconsistency I see: the swipe from the top is not integrated in every app. Sometimes the settings are integrated in a submenu that can be accessed through the three little dots.

    UI:
    I think the UI is focused on being snappy, without to much bloat. And that's exactly what I like. I don't need too much eye candy! The Interface is far from ugly and that's just fine. In my opinion android widgets are mostly just for fun. I don't need a widget showing my next appointments, the calendar app does this for me if i leave it open. Another plus is that most of the buttons are placed on the bottom of the apps. So in contrast to Android you don't have to reach all the way to the top. Also Android uses more space for the virtual buttons on the bottom and the date / notification panel on the top. And all those "features" from I OS... IOS 8 has just so many of them - and most of them don't seem to make work easier. I don't say it's crappy, but it's definitely far off being superior.

    OS Performance:
    This is just one major advantage of OS 10. The device is always responsive and that with my Z10 hardware! OS updates don't slow the system down (like i've seen to many times on Android devices, and is being reported from IPhone users). The App switch is faster than on any other system. Even after starting an app, i can directly swipe to homescreen and close it if I opened it accidentally. On the IPhone 6 it takes a moment until I can go back to the homescreen. It's unresponsive for a moment. On Android sometimes it's really odd/annoying. Sometimes its super fast, then it's again super slow. Sometimes (even new devices) don't respond for seconds or take long to build the homescreen. And this with far superior hardware! Even swiping from the top to see the clock while and fullscreen app is active isn't as snappy as swiping on OS 10.

    So bottom line: I think OS 10 is a really good, except for eye candy! It's a fast well designed system to get things done! I can't think of any new design feature that isn't just bloatware! If someones into eye candy and lots of new features then I can see the downside. But feature richness often is just for marketing and doesn't help you a thing to go through the day....
    06-17-15 03:53 AM
  6. markus2107's Avatar
    Fine, not every device needs a home button... I certainly don't need one... But if BB did release ONE full touch device with a home button, people probably wouldn't need tutorials. This is a Usability 101 failing grade of BB10 that could be easily resolved with ONE device (ok, one premium and one low-cost) with a home button that any iOS or Android user would know how to use WITHOUT easily-ignored tutorials.
    Oh please...! This is just one gesture! And it gives you so many advantages (as mentioned above).

    I know we need BB to survive to keep our beloved devices and this means that is has to be attractive for Android / IPhone users, probably by a designing a fancy UI. But if they change for bringing back Android users and ignoring my/our needs, then I don't see the point anymore. A BB device/company that's more and more Android? I don't need that and at this point I really don't need a BB device anymore.
    06-17-15 04:02 AM
  7. gariac's Avatar
    I'm on 10.3 and didn't notice a thing..felt exactly the same as when I first got the phone as far ui.

    That's my point, now onto 10.3 and it looks and feels exactly the same... Which the masses don't want to use.

    Full lock down.. I can't choose my clock, or home screen to have a nice elegant weather app floating to say 1/3rd the screen, I don't mind it, but if the masses want customization, modern large windows for certain widgets etc. isn't it time to open up the toolbox and start given large widget windows.

    Action backgrounds etc. the design is dull.. I'm barely ok with it but obviously it's not for the majority, with so many websites now functioning as apps .. opening apps interface to be more then static icons and being able to selecting an app or 2 like pinterest to be half a screen refreshing every few minutes etc, or instagram ..

    Break the mood, make It engaging so everytime you unlock your phone or awaken it, the main home screen is interactive.. With 3 main tiles selected by the user. Etc. something different then this tired dull ecosystem. Even I accept it's dull and I use my phone for mainly calls and email.. And my ipad for internet.
    I want no part of this. I don't want my phone to look like some computer game. If somebody needs this nonsense, please leave BlackBerry. Don't ruin it for the rest of us.

    Posted via CB10
    06-17-15 04:08 AM
  8. Raestloz's Avatar
    I want no part of this. I don't want my phone to look like some computer game. If somebody needs this nonsense, please leave BlackBerry. Don't ruin it for the rest of us.

    Posted via CB10
    This. I tried to make my Android's home screen full of interactive stuff, in the end I just can't stand it and put up a nice wallpaper to look at and clear everything off the home screen

    Z10 STL100-1/10.3.1.2576
    06-17-15 06:55 AM
  9. gariac's Avatar
    This. I tried to make my Android's home screen full of interactive stuff, in the end I just can't stand it and put up a nice wallpaper to look at and clear everything off the home screen

    Z10 STL100-1/10.3.1.2576
    Think of the mess that your average webpage has become. Flash adverts flickering away, some image in the middle of the screen that keeps changing, and pop ups. Totally annoying. Why would you want your phone screen to look like that?

    Posted via CB10
    06-17-15 07:13 AM
  10. RyanGermann's Avatar
    Oh please...! This is just one gesture! And it gives you so many advantages (as mentioned above).

    I know we need BB to survive to keep our beloved devices and this means that is has to be attractive for Android / IPhone users, probably by a designing a fancy UI. But if they change for bringing back Android users and ignoring my/our needs, then I don't see the point anymore. A BB device/company that's more and more Android? I don't need that and at this point I really don't need a BB device anymore.
    Perhaps you give the average consumer too much credit. You DO understand that you don't have to convince ME or anyone ELSE that is a regular contributor to CrackBerry that an all gestures UI is absolutely fine without a home button... but BB device designers sit on their high horse in their ivory tower, consumers are at carrier stores and if they're lucky enough to find a BB10 device on display, they're going to look at it and there's no home button and they may tap the screen which will have them maybe in the hub or an app and they won't have an EFFING IDEA what to do next.

    I'm not suggesting that EVERY device have a home button. I'm suggesting that if you put a consumer in front of an otherwise identical device, they will "gravitate", "be drawn to" the one WITH the Home button, because it's immediately "usable" to them. If you deny or disregard that, you're not getting the point.

    An alternative software-only approach might be a second type of "store demo mode"... one where after 10 minutes idle, the "swipe tutorials" appear on screen as soon as the device wakes up, assuming that a "new user" has approached the device, as though the user hasn't ever seen them before. No, the user doesn't have to go and find the "tutorials" app, it just makes the device "approachable". The first little message coudl be something like "Hi, thanks for trying BlackBerry's Tutorial Mode." so the new user knows it's a "mode" that can be turned off. Without a home button or a feature that draws users in, the VAST majority of smartphone users are passing over BB10 and it's partially because of the "learning curve".

    ShopBlackBerry.com isn't selling 2000 devices at a time to enterprise device rollouts... carrier stores that have devices on display cater mostly to consumers, not enterprise customers (but enterprise customers DO need somewhere to actually see the devices). If there is to be ANY end-user / single-user / consumer appeal, "approachability" has to be a concern and HAS to be accommodated.
    gariac likes this.
    06-17-15 07:39 AM
  11. ubizmo's Avatar
    I think the UI is focused on being snappy, without to much bloat. And that's exactly what I like. I don't need too much eye candy! The Interface is far from ugly and that's just fine. In my opinion android widgets are mostly just for fun. I don't need a widget showing my next appointments, the calendar app does this for me if i leave it open.
    I agree in general with the interface feeling clean and snappy. I like seeing the parked active frames more than Android's current "card" stack, although it's not a strong preference.

    Aesthetically, I think the Hub could use some tweaking. For example, the colors that we can assign to various accounts only appear in a tiny sliver along the left side; that could be improved. The "triage" buttons are nice, but I have to say I've become fond of swiping to delete or file emails in Android. The Hub's stack of trash cans and folder icons looks dated to me. Granted, the design of the Hub makes swiping on individual items not feasible, so I'm not sure how it could be improved. I'm just expressing my aesthetic response.

    On that subject, I think offering a few more tasteful system-wide fonts would be a plus. On BBOS, I always preferred the BB Serif font. This isn't a huge concern, but I'm a firm believer in paying close attention to the basic I/O of the system: how the eyes interact with text on the screen and how the hands interact with the device. On the latter score, I think BB10 is already very good, but there's room for improvement on the optics.

    Edit: I don't entirely agree with Android widgets being "just for fun" either. I've read that most people only use a few, but clock and weather widgets are pretty standard, and many people like them large enough to be visible at a glance. Some of these clock/weather widgets are very stylish too. I'm not convinced that leaving a clock and weather active frame onscreen is an acceptable alternative.
    anon(9353145) likes this.
    06-17-15 09:06 AM
  12. Xaiux's Avatar
    BUT, that's what makes BB so unique and different. There's No other device that I know of that does Not have a physical home button on the front of their device. It's all about minimal actions and getting things done. It's So much easier to just swipe up to wake the phone instead of pressing a button or having to slide your finger down with a fingerprint scanner that could one day malfunction.
    There are actually a lot of Android and I think windows phone devices without any physical home button...
    06-17-15 12:28 PM
  13. Raestloz's Avatar
    There are actually a lot of Android and I think windows phone devices without any physical home button...
    They have virtual buttons, but they're always available and always visible. BlackBerry 10 is pretty much the only general consumer product that doesn't immediately show you anything meaningful on how to operate it other than when you start the tutorial like when you do a device first setup.

    It does show a suggestive arrow animation if you tap on the lock screen a few times, but unlocking the device and going back to home screen are two different gestures, you don't need to swipe from the bezel to unlock the phone

    Z10 STL100-1/10.3.1.2576
    06-17-15 01:19 PM
  14. anon(9353145)'s Avatar
    Edit: I don't entirely agree with Android widgets being "just for fun" either. I've read that most people only use a few, but clock and weather widgets are pretty standard, and many people like them large enough to be visible at a glance. Some of these clock/weather widgets are very stylish too. I'm not convinced that leaving a clock and weather active frame onscreen is an acceptable alternative.
    I think just adding a HTC Sense Style weather/time with an optional rss news feed would be a welcome addition. I don't know how many people take advantage of widgets on Android, I know I get rid of all them on my tablets et al. EXCEPT the Time/Weather/News widget. That always stays on all devices.
    06-17-15 01:45 PM
  15. hasa77's Avatar
    My personal opinion is bb10 is great but it lacks some features, off the top of my head, select all or quick select for the hub, (ios has a good method to delete large amount of things in each app such as email), then select all in other areas like contacts and in photos.
    Little things like that are missing.
    Overall I strongly think bb10 OS is the best in the game but the app gap is really killing it being more popular. I don't agree with people saying apps aren't everything, if an iPhone user comes to blackberry and see half his apps can't be downloaded and the ones on they can get through snap/amazon/googe play may not work, then they will be disappointed

    Posted via CB10
    06-17-15 02:01 PM
  16. mad_mdx's Avatar
    Why are some people obsessed with seeing the weather on their phone every time they unlock? The app loads almost instantly and I can't imagine seeing the weather is a very nice thing to see every time I unlock.

    Widgets are overplayed, they're useless. What BlackBerry should do is overhaul active frames. They are basically widgets but with more elegance and consistency, while at the same time giving you a peak into apps that are important since you decided that they are worth leaving open.
    That always had potential but it's unfortunately not a priority at this point I'm assuming. Maybe in the future

    Also, op makes no sense.
    Boring interface ? IPhone is the best selling phone everywhere I think and it has never updated its interface beyond minor cosmetic details and also has terrible flow all around. It's pleasant to look at, that's about it.
    06-17-15 02:31 PM
  17. gariac's Avatar
    I would like to see the return of folders.

    Posted via CB10
    06-17-15 04:23 PM
  18. Soulstream's Avatar
    They have virtual buttons, but they're always available and always visible. BlackBerry 10 is pretty much the only general consumer product that doesn't immediately show you anything meaningful on how to operate it other than when you start the tutorial like when you do a device first setup.

    It does show a suggestive arrow animation if you tap on the lock screen a few times, but unlocking the device and going back to home screen are two different gestures, you don't need to swipe from the bezel to unlock the phone

    Z10 STL100-1/10.3.1.2576
    Actually that's not true for Android. Since 4.4 apps may hide both the bottom virtual buttons and the top status bar and take up the whole screen. To make them re-appear, you need to swipe from the bottom or the top; they will stay active for about 5 seconds (time in which you can do whatever you want with them) and then they disappear again. This is implemented by devs in their apps if they want it (or not).
    06-17-15 04:55 PM
  19. Raestloz's Avatar
    Actually that's not true for Android. Since 4.4 apps may hide both the bottom virtual buttons and the top status bar and take up the whole screen. To make them re-appear, you need to swipe from the bottom or the top; they will stay active for about 5 seconds (time in which you can do whatever you want with them) and then they disappear again. This is implemented by devs in their apps if they want it (or not).
    Never heard of that. I don't have Android 4.4 or newer and my mother's doesn't seem to behave that way. Which apps do that?

    Z10 STL100-1/10.3.1.2576
    06-17-15 08:19 PM
  20. Soulstream's Avatar
    Never heard of that. I don't have Android 4.4 or newer and my mother's doesn't seem to behave that way. Which apps do that?

    Z10 STL100-1/10.3.1.2576
    Any app can do that, but most apps don't. It's especially implemented in games and photo/movie viewers where screen space is really important or the system buttons are not needed.

    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
    06-18-15 12:20 AM
  21. markus2107's Avatar
    Perhaps you give the average consumer too much credit. You DO understand that you don't have to convince ME or anyone ELSE that is a regular contributor to CrackBerry that an all gestures UI is absolutely fine without a home button... but BB device designers sit on their high horse in their ivory tower, consumers are at carrier stores and if they're lucky enough to find a BB10 device on display, they're going to look at it and there's no home button and they may tap the screen which will have them maybe in the hub or an app and they won't have an EFFING IDEA what to do next.

    An alternative software-only approach might be a second type of "store demo mode"... one where after 10 minutes idle, the "swipe tutorials" appear on screen as soon as the device wakes up, assuming that a "new user" has approached the device, as though the user hasn't ever seen them before. No, the user doesn't have to go and find the "tutorials" app, it just makes the device "approachable". The first little message coudl be something like "Hi, thanks for trying BlackBerry's Tutorial Mode." so the new user knows it's a "mode" that can be turned off. Without a home button or a feature that draws users in, the VAST majority of smartphone users are passing over BB10 and it's partially because of the "learning curve".
    OK, I see your point. I didn't think about people going into the shop and looking for devices. You're right about that. In my opinion the software based introduction would be pretty nice. This way they could easily learn how to access the hub, etc. and really feel the difference OS 10 makes. I like the idea.

    But you've got to admit, the starting post was heading off to a different direction. It was clearly about working "flow" on OS 10 isn't at it's best. I tried to make my point why that's not the case.
    06-18-15 02:51 AM
  22. RyanGermann's Avatar
    OK, I see your point. I didn't think about people going into the shop and looking for devices. You're right about that. In my opinion the software based introduction would be pretty nice. This way they could easily learn how to access the hub, etc. and really feel the difference OS 10 makes. I like the idea.

    But you've got to admit, the starting post was heading off to a different direction. It was clearly about working "flow" on OS 10 isn't at it's best. I tried to make my point why that's not the case.
    I disagree with the OP as well... there are things that the BB10 UX guidelines got wrong (like as I type this the "Cancel" and "Post" buttons on CB10 are at the very top of the screen instead of being somewhere I can reach with my thumb). And there are other UX features for which a number of options could be available rather than the current "it was a certain way on 10.2.1 and it's different in 10.3.1 and you can't choose the 10.2.1 style any more".

    One user's 'boredom' is another user's 'consistency', and change for the sake of change is fine for wallpaper but not always for software UX.

    As far as a user's first experience with new OS platform, here's how I think it generally goes:

    iOS: (iOS device owner to Mabel) "Hey, Mabel! Let me show you my fantastic new device!"

    Android: (carrier store clerk to Mabel): "...or, you could consider an Android device, like this Galaxy SIII... it's like iPhone, but more customizable. Yes, all the apps are there..."

    Windows Phone: (Microsoft ads everywhere Mabel looks) "You know that Windows 8 OS we forced on you and you may not like all that much? Well, now it's in a Phone!"

    BlackBerry: (Mabel doesn't know anyone with a BlackBerry but sees one at a Carrier store, if anywhere, and approaches the device) "Hmmm... let's see. I'll tap the screen no that didn't turn it on... is there a button somewhere, oh there it is on top (press) oh there it is, the screen is blank (swipe everywhichway) ah, there are the apps (launch browser) oh this seems fine... now what other apps are there... how do I get back to the apps... Hmmm (swipe everywhichway, nothing useful happens, press the power button, press it again back in the browser) Hmmmph..." (puts device down walks away, carrier clerk approaches "can I help you?" Mabel says "oh, I was just looking at that BlackBerry..." Clerk says "Oh, you don't want that device anyway, you dumb stupid *****, this Galaxy S6 gives me the highest incentive bonus, so here, take it, love it, give me your credit card or I'll call security and have you thrown bodily from the shopping complex!"

    (disclaimer: most carrier store staff will NOT treat customers like that. The contempt for BlackBerry and their desire to sell incentivized devices will be MUCH more subtle.)
    Last edited by RyanGermann; 06-18-15 at 03:35 AM.
    markus2107 likes this.
    06-18-15 03:10 AM
  23. Raestloz's Avatar
    The Cancel and Post buttons are way up there precisely because your thumbs generally can't reach them easily. If it is, it'd be somewhere where you can easily accidentally press Post before you're finished.

    In general use case, user will spend their time editing the text and looking at it. The whole screen real estate is used to allow you to tap on a text and have the cursor move there immediately. Only in the final seconds will you actually have any use for the Cancel and Post button

    Z10 STL100-1/10.3.1.2576
    extisis likes this.
    06-18-15 06:15 AM
  24. markus2107's Avatar
    Actually that's not true for Android. Since 4.4 apps may hide both the bottom virtual buttons and the top status bar and take up the whole screen. To make them re-appear, you need to swipe from the bottom or the top; they will stay active for about 5 seconds (time in which you can do whatever you want with them) and then they disappear again. This is implemented by devs in their apps if they want it (or not).
    I know about this feature and I do use it on my Android tablet, running 5.1. However the implementation is weak compared to OS 10's swipe navigation. To do whatever you want' you need two interactions with the device. OS 10 gets done everything with just one swipe. And (if you're not on a ROM that allows enabling this feature for every app) the developer has to activate this feature.

    Let's say you want to take a look at the clock: You have to move all the way up to the top and swipe down, and then it stays there for some seconds. In OS 10 you can leave your finger on the bottom of the screen slightly turn up, check battery, incoming messages, the time, whatever and slide back into the app. This is so incredibly fast!

    If you want to change "quick"settings you need two swipes. And if you're on Lollipop - now you'll need three swipes! This is annoying!

    If you want to switch between apps or go to the homescreen or one step backward you'll have to pull up the bottom panel and then you can interact with it.... or wait until it's gone.

    So even though Android has the capability to use the whole screen - the management and implementation of onscreen buttons is imho weak. I truly hope we'll never see something like this on BB phones. And I'd really like to have the BB feeling one day on a tablet.
    06-18-15 07:23 AM
  25. D3C0D3R's Avatar
    To be fair, your friend was using the Z10 (I had it since launch until I got my Passport, and I'm not putting BlackBerry down).

    At this point, it's a 2-year old device that when it launched it was already running 2-year old hardware. No wonder it felt old and didn't run smoothly. . .

    Praise be unto our Lord, Squircle | Passport SQW100-1/10.3.2.2204
    06-18-15 07:59 AM
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