1. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    So Google is offering its own plan, I'm guessing in competition with the Carriers own plans. How do carriers differentiate themselves from Google? Well I'm assuming Google will now spy on your texting and MMS and voice calls. What if you finally say, enough is enough.

    Could one of the carriers differentiating responses be to band together and offer to jumpstart an already existing alternative operating system (kind of like the Google OHA alliance)? Say one that focuses on privacy and security, whose privacy could be further enhanced? Hey BlackBerry maybe form a carrier consortium and have the carriers fund the continuance of the BB10 Phone on modern hardware. What do you think? Google never got accused of monopolistic practices, no way the carriers could either, in response to Googles encroachment on their turf.
    02-26-19 07:19 AM
  2. johnny_bravo72's Avatar
    Stopped reading after seeing "BB10."
    02-26-19 08:50 AM
  3. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    Stopped reading after seeing "BB10."
    Google probably didn't :-)
    02-26-19 09:40 AM
  4. Ment's Avatar
    Google Fi has existed for 3 years now, its just planning a move to 5G when the network is there thats all recent news stories are about.

    Carriers are about the worst group you'd want to be on control of an OS and have no trust from the public in terms of privacy. Look at the mess that is RCS implementation where each carrier wants some way to lock in people to their messaging service.

    Everytime one of these threads come up the nail that needs to be pounded into the head is : Its the Ecosystem

    Developers don't want a 3rd OS. End of story.
    02-26-19 01:04 PM
  5. eshropshire's Avatar
    Google Fi currently uses the following networks to provide their service Sprint, T-Mobile, U.S. Cellular, and Three. Seems like they already have carrier support.
    02-26-19 01:23 PM
  6. howarmat's Avatar
    Carriers dont want to throw money at a lost cause like bb10 when they can make 1000x more operating the way things are now.
    02-26-19 01:33 PM
  7. joeldf's Avatar
    So Google is offering its own plan, I'm guessing in competition with the Carriers own plans. How do carriers differentiate themselves from Google? Well I'm assuming Google will now spy on your texting and MMS and voice calls. What if you finally say, enough is enough.

    Could one of the carriers differentiating responses be to band together and offer to jumpstart an already existing alternative operating system (kind of like the Google OHA alliance)? Say one that focuses on privacy and security, whose privacy could be further enhanced? Hey BlackBerry maybe form a carrier consortium and have the carriers fund the continuance of the BB10 Phone on modern hardware. What do you think? Google never got accused of monopolistic practices, no way the carriers could either, in response to Googles encroachment on their turf.
    Hey, that sounds like a great idea! You really should write it up and mail it to the BlackBerry Chairman and CEO, copying the members of the Board of Directors, and the various carriers you think would be interested. If it meets their investment criteria, I don't see why they wouldn't do it.

    (Slightly modified from the original suggested response to these types of threads)
    02-26-19 01:36 PM
  8. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    Google has now just formalized its next step in Google Fi (Mobile Virtual Network Operator MVNO)'s expanded availability to many more devices than the original limited handset selection, making it more difficult to ignore.

    I'd have to become CEO or at least CFO wouldn't I ? to have access to those carrier contacts wouldn't i? Hey is it just me that sees Google slowly eating everyone's lunch, and not paying for it at all, or at least hitting them up for their lunch money?

    Google has chosen sides with their carrier agreements, wonder how the other carriers are feeling about their largest and most critical smartphone OS supplier has just entered into direct competition for their bread and butter services. No doubt Google's MVNO suppliers think they might have just tied up a huge advantage over their non-google competitors. Hoping to leap frog them. Eventually this could roll out globally. Question is, can the competitors continue to ignore Google and say it is a non-threat to their businesses? I don't think so.
    That monopoly needs more competition in its revenue generating core, achieved through another OS competitor (who may even do things differently).

    (Having become a regular smartphone addict I think I've lost those skills to which undertakings are necessary to have, in order to implement your suggested "formal proposal inter alia")
    Last edited by i_plod_an_dr_void; 02-26-19 at 03:30 PM.
    02-26-19 03:18 PM
  9. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    Carriers dont want to throw money at a lost cause like bb10 when they can make 1000x more operating the way things are now.
    Definitely a defensive move and innovative broad concept "privacy again" , if Google partnering with the competition weakens their core revenues. I'm not too sure carriers are too happy about Googles entry, but the weaker ones probably jumped at the chance thinking it a lifeline or boost of some sort. No so sure. Tail wagging the dog and all.
    02-26-19 03:35 PM
  10. Ment's Avatar
    The strategy carriers are taking to not become dump pipes is alliance/acquisition of content providers. Comcast-NBC Universal . ATT-Time Warner etc. Literally no one thinks that OS development to hardware sales which take immense resources and doesn't make money in and of itself is worth the resource sink.
    02-26-19 05:03 PM
  11. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    The strategy carriers are taking to not become dump pipes is alliance/acquisition of content providers. Comcast-NBC Universal . ATT-Time Warner etc. Literally no one thinks that OS development to hardware sales which take immense resources and doesn't make money in and of itself is worth the resource sink.
    Sure, if they want to give up retail cell plan customers then continue with the one OS provider Google wagging the Dog (cellular network providers) tails. I'm sure Netflix, Amazon etc will take care of the traditional Media producers at that end of the candle as well. But then we haven't gotten into the privacy of SMS,MMS and voice with Google fi yet have we.
    02-27-19 11:09 AM
  12. Ment's Avatar
    Sure, if they want to give up retail cell plan customers then continue with the one OS provider Google wagging the Dog (cellular network providers) tails. I'm sure Netflix, Amazon etc will take care of the traditional Media producers at that end of the candle as well. But then we haven't gotten into the privacy of SMS,MMS and voice with Google fi yet have we.
    thats the problem with your premise, not enough people care enough about privacy as an abstract, they care about trust, FB may be damaged but most people trust Google. So in order to capture that niche you have to develop OS, hardware, and service ecosystem based on a privacy premise for which few will pay. You know this of course but enjoy posting 'what if' topics for some reason.
    02-27-19 12:55 PM
  13. app_Developer's Avatar
    So I think it's actually a good point that carriers have some risk when they are dependent on Google while also in some ways competing with them. That may be a manageable risk for them, though, without going off and building their own OS.

    An OS is only valuable if there is an appreciable number of users. Otherwise it's pointless.

    So key assumptions that you would need to test:

    1.) Do enough users really understand or care enough about privacy to pay for it? More privacy generally means fewer ad revenue opportunities, which in turn means a more expensive product for the user.

    2.) Does an OS designed for privacy really help when most users will continue to use services such as FB anyway!!

    3.) As others have said, can giant phone companies really work together on something that needs to move as quickly as an OS? Past experience suggests they cannot. These are the same people who struggle to even approve security updates in a timely manner!
    jhimmel likes this.
    02-27-19 02:25 PM
  14. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    thats the problem with your premise, not enough people care enough about privacy as an abstract, they care about trust, FB may be damaged but most people trust Google. So in order to capture that niche you have to develop OS, hardware, and service ecosystem based on a privacy premise for which few will pay. You know this of course but enjoy posting 'what if' topics for some reason.
    I don't trust Google, I trust Android even less...Apple about the same (especially concerned about the bias of those employed or running the shows there)....and I don't think slapping down 800 or more on a phone entitles anyone to eavesdrop for whatever reason. 800 should already pay for privacy, but apparently doesn't. When I can listen in, in real time to any and all Alphabet /Google/Wall Street/Madison Avenue/Hollywood Studio/Top Research/Law enforcement/Gov't executives and/Research employees any time of the day or night for their phone,web and travel habits, then I would say, the market has at least established an equilibrium in privacy concerns. They'd all scream of course. So it ain't gonna happen. So privacy concerns are still a real and relevant asymmetrical problem today. Don't make the excuse that you wouldn't get services if they didn't record everything you did, to profile you for advertisers, its bunk. The internet was around a long time before Google was. There is something much more concerning going on around here with this mass surveillance. Of all people Americans should be screaming the loudest about spying on and through their phones,sensors and cameras by anyone. I trust a Business about as far as I buy a good or service from them, nothing more, and I ought not to. Caveat Emptor. There would be plenty who would opt-out if they even knew they had an option, as easily accessible as the mandatory no-option smartphone today.

    As for the "big pay" for privacy...how ridiculous. The OS to start with mostly already exists today, its mostly baked in, all it needs is a new tin to put it in (Armv8 64bit). You might wanna pay an annual subscription for security and other api update costs along the way, nothing exorbitant. That's about it.
    Last edited by i_plod_an_dr_void; 02-27-19 at 09:46 PM. Reason: (spelling corrections)
    02-27-19 02:43 PM
  15. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    Wonder how private my voice conversations, texts and mms are between me and a user of a google fi? Wow a whole new area of privacy concerns. There must be some kind of mandatory notice about communicating to and from such a carrier.
    02-27-19 04:02 PM
  16. Ment's Avatar
    Wonder how private my voice conversations, texts and mms are between me and a user of a google fi? Wow a whole new area of privacy concerns. There must be some kind of mandatory notice about communicating to and from such a carrier.
    Again carriers are the wrong group for any privacy based initiative even if they make no money on it (they wouldn't).

    ATT and NSA are thick as thieves on surveillance

    https://theintercept.com/2016/11/16/...n-plain-sight/

    Verizon fined over SuperCookie tracking

    https://www.theverge.com/2016/3/7/11...-3-million-fcc

    Verizon fined 7.5M for misuses of its customer info
    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/verizon...omer-data-use/

    Verizon fined 5M for deliberately targeting inappropriate ads to children.

    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/ve...obe-2018-12-04

    So many more instances of carrier misbehavior its not worth the Google.

    So lets get this 'oh lets the carriers make a phone' out of the way.
    02-27-19 05:25 PM
  17. Elephant_Canyon's Avatar
    Apple about the same (especially concerned about the bias of those employed or running the shows there)
    Could you please elaborate on the bias among Apple employees?
    02-28-19 07:17 AM
  18. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    Never said the Carriers had to build it, just invest as a spin off standards like organization around bb10 (many carriers not just one or two), so there's a healthier markeplace for them to sell (better diversity of feature and privacy choice) , now that Google's encroaching on their bread and butter.

    Making Android not the exceedingly over-dominent player (which it is) is healthy, just as having not just one or two carriers is healthy. By the way, did Google ever pay that license for taking Sun's Java to hurry up and build their first Android phones? Still in court I think. Cause it is claimed that they didn't have time to build an OS from scratch, like Blackberry took the time to do, Doing it properly. Seems like someone played fair and the other might have been breaking the rules of the game (licensing, paying for someone else's efforts etc) . I think IBM also licensced Java, when they used it.

    I guess Google's principle motto is/was "its better to ask forgiveness than to ask permission"? Except they aren't very good on that forgiveness (paying a license) part I guess? Maybe its actually "It's better to claim amnesia than to ask permission?". Or its better to say "didint do nothin, than ask permission" I dunno. Its all very sketchy to outsiders peering in under the lid. I can't really take a Dodge/GM, copy all its design add a few things then not pay for the IP license for what was copied, just because I was in a hurry to build my own factory. Isn't that similiar to the issue with the Trade deficit with that rather populous nation under authoritarian rule across the Pacific?
    02-28-19 11:37 AM
  19. Ment's Avatar
    OHA exists and runs because Google is the head chef. They take input into account but the buck stops with Google. Often Google is the judge/jury/executioner. Is someone from BB going to be the Google in the carrier OHA? No, money talks and carriers have it and they think they all should be chef. They literally can't implement standards like RCS (iMessage competitor) because of instead of using Universal Profile they have to put their own incompatible wrinkles into it. So you want them to have a heavy hand in an OHA type org? Craziness.
    02-28-19 01:17 PM

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