05-02-16 06:50 AM
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  1. Avenzuno's Avatar
    If I were CEO of BlackBerry, I would approach the future of BB10 similarly to Samsung's strategy with Tizen. Keep BB10 around as a niche, quietly continuing to develop and maintain it, and be low key about it, so that if something ever goes bad with Android, GPS or the company's relationship with Google, then BlackBerry can bring it back from a hidden skunkworks project back to a significant product for both enterprise and consumer markets.

    Posted via CB10 | SQC100-4 Classic in Cobalt Blue
    04-27-16 07:55 PM
  2. anon(3983727)'s Avatar
    And the point I am making is that it makes no difference whether they know BB10 exists or not if they don't buy a BB10 phone when they do know it exists.

    The product has to sell itself, to a certain degree.
    Search twitter for BlackBerry. Seems the common idea of blackberry is scroll wheels and ancient tech. That is the same perception I see when blackberry is brought up in conversation. My passport always wows the very same people.
    https://twitter.com/Wanderlustin/sta...67223679066113
    04-27-16 08:18 PM
  3. elfabio80's Avatar
    The point is, BlackBerry knows what they need to compete in hardware and has made it's decisions on how to operate with it's very limited resources. They wasted $5-10 billion and lost 5 years on developing BB10. That money and time should have been spent on Android hardware/software development back then. Luckily Chen is doing what his predecessors should have done. Even now, money spent on software company acquisitions provide a better return than advertising for hardware. Android is going from upper tier flagship to midrange. Only thing worse are the stupid ideas about how money should be spent on BB10. The sooner it's forgotten about the better for the sake of BlackBerry the company...

    Posted via CB10
    Oh yes...they are selling millions of Android based devices...Priv is selling a lot...and kicking in the *** competitors like Samsung, Meizu, Hawuei, and so on!! All these brands are shacking because of the BlackBerry android innovation!! BlackBerry is selling so many Privs that they are shamed to share to the market!!



    Posted via CB10
    04-27-16 09:31 PM
  4. markmall's Avatar
    They're mobile hardware division is still losing money and MSFT has more cash to burn than BlackBerry has market capitalization.

    Posted via CB10
    The point is only that sometimes you have to stick to your guns. BBRY invested a lot in its new OS. Abandoning it so quickly when it was not even mature might not have been the right decision I believe.
    04-27-16 09:36 PM
  5. markmall's Avatar
    The problem that blackberry had was that they had nothing to market. What did they have that would stand out from the rest of the phones our there. Nothing

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    People freak out when they see Passports. It happens to me on a weekly basis. Someone will see my phone and say, "What is that? Can I check it out?" These aren't even tech people. And this discounts the fact that the OS is so much more elegant than the others.

    I can believe people say there was nothing to market or nothing that would have stood out.
    JulesDB and Christoph7K like this.
    04-27-16 09:38 PM
  6. markmall's Avatar
    @markmall - they don't have the money to market or they would have..all the money from loan did was allow them ability to pay bills as they right sized the company. Now they're paying for revenue. Laying out dollars and getting back those dollars with immediate cash flow. They're paying loans back with the acquired companies money's. Even apple's huge cash reserves aren't big enough to move a product that nobody wants. Heck their reserves weren't enough to avoid 1st quarter in 13 years of uninterrupted growth. That's like a 52 quarter streak...

    Posted via CB10
    No offense, Chuck, but I don't think you really know of what you speak. You throw out accounting jargon, but I don't think you summarize the situation correctly.

    Feel free to try to correct me, but from what I understand they spent billions of dollars of cash to acquire small-ish software companies that are, maybe, cash flow positive. Even presuming BB got a good deal on these acquisitions, their positive revenue is but a trickle compared to their cost of their purchase prices.

    "Now they're paying for revenue. Laying out dollars and getting back those dollars with immediate cash flow." What??? So BB spends $2B(?) of its cash pile now and enjoys positive income of $10M-$50M per quarter. These were large, long-term investments. They were not means to boost BB's liquidity at all.

    In reality, these acquisitions were a desperate attempt to increase revenues on BB's income statement so Chen wouldn't look like a complete loser for his inability to sell the much bally-hood server software. BB thought instead of developing its own business -- which Chen cannot do -- it would buy time by purchasing others' businesses.

    Now in contrast to the billions spent acquiring these little startup companies, BB could have spent $100-$500 million on a major marketing campaign. I'm not saying I know what sort of media mix would have been right, but something -- anything -- to inform the public of what it offered would have been essential.

    So this would have required a cash outlay of a small fraction of what they spent buying little software companies so they could pretend their own software business was generating revenue.

    The opportunity that BB10 and hardware generally presented to BB when Chen came on board has proven to be far greater than server software and "security" software.

    The phrase that comes to mind on BB's marketing choices is "pennywise and pound foolish."
    elfabio80 likes this.
    04-27-16 09:56 PM
  7. markmall's Avatar
    I've read plenty of posts on CB about people who have gotten their entire families and many friends onto BB10 phones, but they are obviously the exception and not the rule. And how many of them are still on BB10? How many of them will be 1-2 years from now?
    BB gave its BB10 users no upgrade path. The Z10 was underpowered when it was released. Those that have left BB10 by and large did so because they felt they had no choice.

    If you want an all-touch device, you would have to go onto eBay and find a Z30 (which also could use more power).

    The only device that really does BB10 justice is the Passport, and that is too big for many people. Women don't like it as much as men because you need larger hands.
    04-27-16 10:43 PM
  8. Invictus0's Avatar
    Now in contrast to the billions spent acquiring these little startup companies, BB could have spent $100-$500 million on a major marketing campaign. I'm not saying I know what sort of media mix would have been right, but something -- anything -- to inform the public of what it offered would have been essential.
    They tried that in 2013, it's estimated that BB10's launch marketing budget exceeded $200 million.

    http://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.co...-new-campaign/
    anon(9878325) and JeepBB like this.
    04-27-16 11:06 PM
  9. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    People freak out when they see Passports. It happens to me on a weekly basis. Someone will see my phone and say, "What is that? Can I check it out?"
    What you say does not jive with my experience.
    I believe it is a major faux pas to fondle someone else's slab.
    To ask about someone else's phone is probably ok, but to touch it is not.
    Asking to "check out" someone's phone would just be awkward for both parties.
    Excluding Mrs. BB the only scenarios I can imagine where I would touch someone else's phone are emergencies.
    And I would ask the Mrs. for permission first.
    JeepBB likes this.
    04-27-16 11:10 PM
  10. markmall's Avatar
    What you say does not jive with my experience.
    I believe it is a major faux pas to fondle someone else's slab.
    To ask about someone else's phone is probably ok, but to touch it is not.
    Asking to "check out" someone's phone would just be awkward for both parties.
    Excluding Mrs. BB the only scenarios I can imagine where I would touch someone else's phone are emergencies.
    And I would ask the Mrs. for permission first.
    I think you mean "jibe." (Heh, heh.) Also, people don't need to fondle the phone. They just want to get a better look at it. It is a groundbreaking design. It's the only groundbreaking form factor I can think of for smartphones in the last 3 years.
    04-28-16 12:05 AM
  11. markmall's Avatar
    They tried that in 2013, it's estimated that BB10's launch marketing budget exceeded $200 million.

    http://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.co...-new-campaign/
    This is interesting. I don't think they spent wisely, and they definitely shot their load too early. The OS was in beta form for many months after release, and the Z10 was not a world beating device. (I recall that I could not sync BB10 with my Outlook program, which was the main driver in staying with BB at the time. They were still perfecting the Link software.)

    Whatever they spent after the initial launch of the OS and during the release of their better BB10 smartphones was grossly insufficient. Maybe they were gun shy after the Z10 debacle. Maybe $200 million was not enough for this type of rollout.

    Below is what they spent on buying up companies in search of a new business since the launch of BB10 (per Wikipedia). Who was it who said that they didn't have a spare $100-$500 million sitting around to market their product?

    On Good Technology alone they dropped $425 million. (But I thought that they were on the verge of bankruptcy and didn't have two pennies to rub together after the financing from Prem.) Who knows about the other companies, but it sure looks like they could be north of $1 billion in buying up small software companies.

    How much has BBRY benefit from owning "Scroon"? I'm really, really curious. How about "Movirtu"? Here is what John Chen had to say about the Movirtu acquisition: “The acquisition of Movirtu complements our core strategy of providing additional value added services, and it will leverage our key assets, including our BES platform, along with our existing global infrastructure which is connected to a large number of mobile operators around the world.”

    Whatever.
    __________________________________________________ ______________________________

    May 2013 Scroon Social marketing company France Undisclosed [25]

    29 July 2014 Secusmart GmbH Voice and Data Encryption Germany Undisclosed [26]

    11 September 2014 Movirtu Virtual SIM solutions United Kingdom Undisclosed [27]

    21 April 2015 WatchDox Ltd. Enterprise data sync and share Israel Undisclosed [28]

    22 July 2015 AtHoc, Inc. Networked crisis communications United States Undisclosed [29]

    4 August 2015 Good Technology Mobile Security Provider United States $425 Million [30]

    19 February 2016 Encription Ltd. Cybersecurity services United Kingdom Undisclosed [31]
    04-28-16 12:20 AM
  12. southlander's Avatar
    Sorry, I didn't understand the fact that BlackBerry was almost bankrupted when Chen took over the company. Also I had the illusion that if a company needs a turnaround plan they need to make some investments. Actually I made a bigger mistake by thinking that if somebody has a product to sell they need to promote it. I was so stupid. People don't need to know that a product exists to buy it. They just go and buy things without knowing they exist.
    I'm sorry.
    I am going now to buy something I don't know it exists.

    Posted via CB10
    Knowing something exists is not the same as giving a darn about it. Marketing can't magically make folks aware and make them want it more than what they are likely 100% satisfied with. How much do you have to spend to make a significant number of folks drop their iPhones, apps and media that's tied to iTunes and run out and buy BlackBerrys?

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    04-28-16 01:35 AM
  13. Uzi's Avatar
    Knowing something exists is not the same as giving a darn about it. Marketing can't magically make folks aware and make them want it more than what they are likely 100% satisfied with. How much do you have to spend to make a significant number of folks drop their iPhones, apps and media that's tied to iTunes and run out and buy BlackBerrys?

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    Make sense, agreed
    04-28-16 01:40 AM
  14. markmall's Avatar
    Knowing something exists is not the same as giving a darn about it. Marketing can't magically make folks aware and make them want it more than what they are likely 100% satisfied with. How much do you have to spend to make a significant number of folks drop their iPhones, apps and media that's tied to iTunes and run out and buy BlackBerrys?

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    Just because A exists, does not mean that B will exist.

    But in order for B to exist, A must exist.

    In order for anyone to give a darn about BB10, they first must know that it exists. If they do not learn of its existence, they will never become fans and purchase BB10 phones.
    anon(9878325) likes this.
    04-28-16 02:07 AM
  15. JeepBB's Avatar
    At this point anyone with a little vision is better than nothing.
    Chen has lots of vision and is clear on where he's taking BB. He's stated that vision often enough.

    You not agreeing with that vision doesn't render his plan void. It means you disagree.

    Chen's plan is based on a realistic assessment of where BB now is, and what is achievable with the resources they have. Yours is a fantasy built on a dream.
    04-28-16 03:31 AM
  16. markmall's Avatar
    You're kidding right? Blackberry made MONEY of it's acquisition, huge money, and that's the only reason the company is still alive... and employed a sale director to boost the hardware division. Chen said many times: "If blah, we're gonna get out of hardware business" and what happened? Blah comes, and he's still sticking to hardware. They don't just let it go, now they have much more money than needed to give it a jump. After stabilizing the Android sales, they get back to Blackberry 10 once more, with peace of mind.

    Exactly when they claim to shift the focus to software, :
    BlackBerry Turning From Smartphones To Enterprise Software | Digital Trends

    they hire a hardware sales director! :
    BlackBerry hires Alex Thurber to lead global sales of its devices | CrackBerry.com

    Does it ring any bell to you?
    I don't think you have a firm grasp of corporate finance. You don't "make MONEY" or especially "huge" money by purchasing a software company in a frothy tech environment. The only way they would "make money" is if they turned around and sold the company they acquired for a gain. Time will only tell if these were wise acquisitions, but they are like long term capital investments that may or may not work out.

    The notion that these little companies whose technologies BBRY bought "saved" BBRY has it backwards. If anything, much larger BBRY bailed out these companies. Whether or not Chen can figure out anything useful to do with them other than pad his top line (revenue) so he doesn't look so bad during earnings conference calls will have to be seen.

    Personally, I think this is going to end very badly because I don't think they are going to cobble together a credible software business and they sure as heck don't know how to compete in the smartphone business.
    04-28-16 04:14 AM
  17. ZeBB45's Avatar
    I'd like to make a mention that Apple have seen a 7% decrease in sales this first quarter. It's not just BlackBerry that's feeling the heat.

    The elephant in the room is global economic decline and that it's actually a miracle that a small company like BlackBerry has managed to survive in this economic climate.

    Q10 - 10.3.2.2876/SR .2836  < α∂∂ιт > 
    anon(6038817) likes this.
    04-28-16 04:16 AM
  18. Soulstream's Avatar
    I'd like to make a mention that Apple have seen a 7% decrease in sales this first quarter. It's not just BlackBerry that's feeling the heat.

    The elephant in the room is global economic decline and that it's actually a miracle that a small company like BlackBerry has managed to survive in this economic climate.

    Q10 - 10.3.2.2876/SR .2836  < α∂∂ιт > 
    I don't think the reason is the global economic decline, but more of the smartphone market reaching full maturity. There are less and less people that are transitioning from a feature phone to a smartphone and due to hardware getting pretty good, people don't feel the need to upgrade as often.

    The smartphone market will become like the desktop/notebook one where you rarely need to change your device.
    04-28-16 04:44 AM
  19. Elephant_Canyon's Avatar
    I don't know about that, if that were the case then why is the new iPhone 5sc failing in the market?
    Maybe because there's no such thing as an iPhone 5sc?
    anon(9878325) likes this.
    04-28-16 07:29 AM
  20. markf's Avatar
    BlackBerry has disappeared, at least in people's minds. In all the time I've owned a BB10 phone, Z10 and now a Z30, I've NOT seen another person with a BB10 phone only legacy ones.

    Z30-STA100-5 (T-Mo)-SR 10.3.2.2836 / OS 10.3.2.2876
    04-28-16 12:21 PM
  21. southlander's Avatar
    Just because A exists, does not mean that B will exist.

    But in order for B to exist, A must exist.

    In order for anyone to give a darn about BB10, they first must know that it exists. If they do not learn of its existence, they will never become fans and purchase BB10 phones.
    Which does not explain why most all the folks that do know it exists choose other phones. We know from marketshare figures that that is the case. At the very least we should be able to, but can't find ... reviewers who state in their reviews they would be switching after reviewing a BB10 handset. Certainly reviewing the phone requires one to know it exists.
    anon(9878325) and JeepBB like this.
    04-28-16 12:29 PM
  22. Bogdan Tudor Dan's Avatar
    And speaking about reviews when I bought my Z10 I watched some reviews and I was on the point to change my mind and not buy the Z10. I took a chance with it because I read the comments of people who owned a Z10 and wrote that all the cons the reviewer listed were lies.
    I bought the device and I had no problem with it. Maybe most of the reviewer were lying about it or maybe it was just the fact I had 10.2 release of the OS and the bugs were fixed.

    Posted via CB10
    04-28-16 01:43 PM
  23. southlander's Avatar
    And speaking about reviews when I bought my Z10 I watched some reviews and I was on the point to change my mind and not buy the Z10. I took a chance with it because I read the comments of people who owned a Z10 and wrote that all the cons the reviewer listed were lies.
    I bought the device and I had no problem with it. Maybe most of the reviewer were lying about it or maybe it was just the fact I had 10.2 release of the OS and the bugs were fixed.

    Posted via CB10
    We can't trust all reviewers because they are all deceptive with some ulterior motive to trash BlackBerry? Even if the product is "better" than the rest? Is that close to what you are saying? They have some agenda?

    I would think a reviewer who can lay out plainly why a BB10 device is superior to the competition, then switch themselves, and then influence others to do the same would get some attention. BlackBerry would notice it for sure.

    There is that one guy at Android Central who had a pretty glowing review about the Priv, which is not a BB10 device. I think he even used it as his phone and maybe still does. Again that's not BB10.

    I remember there were some pretty positive reviews of the initial BB10 phones. What I don't remember is the reviewers switching to them in droves.

    I heard this guy say some pretty good things about BlackBerry 10/the Z10 on a podcast. https://twitter.com/ojezap Said BlackBerry had come up with something very special or something to that effect. Then there was David Pogue who gave the Z10 props, to many folks' surprise as he is known to use Apple products.

    I would be willing to bet you good money that neither of those folks every bought a BlackBerry 10 phone.
    app_Developer and JeepBB like this.
    04-28-16 02:43 PM
  24. markmall's Avatar
    Reviewers are not a good barometer for the older, professional demographic BlackBerry should (is? was?) targeting and are too few in number to draw any conclusions.

    People that rely on heavy email use and don't need the teenage girly apps (this means not young gadget reviewers) would be interested in BB10 -- if they knew it existed.

    Posted via CB10
    04-28-16 03:11 PM
  25. anon(6038817)'s Avatar
    Reviewers are not a good barometer for the older, professional demographic BlackBerry should (is? was?) targeting and are too few in number to draw any conclusions.

    People that rely on heavy email use and don't need the teenage girly apps (this means not young gadget reviewers) would be interested in BB10 -- if they knew it existed.

    Posted via CB10
    Apps are more important to the "older, professional demographic" and people that rely on "heavy email use" than you think.
    04-28-16 03:46 PM
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