12-19-15 01:20 AM
44 12
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  1. anon(9208252)'s Avatar
    Ive noticed all u do is troll crackberry crapping on any positive threads about bb10 or any bb10 development. You're a plague on this site to be frank.

    BlackBerry Z30 (10.3.2)
    I totally agree , he thinks he knows everything.

    He's more than a plague if you ask me.

    Let's all get together and get him banned.
    conite, Mecca EL and magicdesign like this.
    12-17-15 07:24 PM
  2. conite's Avatar
    I totally agree , he thinks he knows everything.

    He's more than a plague if you ask me.

    Let's all get together and get him banned.
    I've reported myself 100 times already. I can't seem to get anywhere.

    I just spit what Bla1ze tells me to anyway.
    anon(9208252) and Mecca EL like this.
    12-17-15 07:30 PM
  3. anon(9208252)'s Avatar
    I've reported myself 100 times already. I can't seem to get anywhere.

    I just spit what Bla1ze tells me to anyway.
    Who is Bleize \_(ツ)_/

    Posted via CB10
    Mecca EL likes this.
    12-17-15 07:36 PM
  4. Easypants's Avatar
    I can't offer any facts, but I can tell you that the options available to BlackBerry and Google in terms of their partnership, are as infinite as one can imagine. The only limiting factor is BlackBerry's relative position of bargaining weakness. Because of this, it may seem likely that goggle left BlackBerry no wiggle room in terms of updating its runtime.

    However, BlackBerry has skills, patents, security reputation, and assets that Google may have been interested in. This may have afforded BlackBerry some concessions in terms of their Android agreement. Remember, Google and Apple were in an enterprise war of sorts, these past couple years. Especially after the failure of Knox, Google seemed to be losing the battle for corporate customers. This strengthened BlackBerry worth to Google.

    I'm inclined to think the reason it took BlackBerry so long to experiment with Android, was because they were holding out for certain concessions in said agreement.

    On the other hand, why wouldn't BlackBerry let users know there would be updates to BB10's android runtime if they had permission to do so? Maybe to ensure PRIV sales were strong?

    Alas, only time will answer the OP's question.

    Posted via CB10
    BBHermes likes this.
    12-17-15 07:37 PM
  5. anon(9208252)'s Avatar
    What were we talking about anyways.
    Mecca EL likes this.
    12-17-15 07:39 PM
  6. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    Who is Bleize \_(ツ)_/

    Posted via CB10
    He is the Davil.
    12-17-15 07:47 PM
  7. thurask's Avatar
    Ive noticed all u do is troll crackberry crapping on any positive threads about bb10 or any bb10 development. You're a plague on this site to be frank.

    BlackBerry Z30 (10.3.2)
    Hello Frank, I'm Dad.
    kbz1960 and Mecca EL like this.
    12-17-15 09:21 PM
  8. Easypants's Avatar
    The Q3 press event pretty much reminds us of the reality. BB10 will not see a dollar until handsets start posting profits.

    Chen reiterated that he promised to not keep dragging investors through quarter after quarter of losses in the handset division. He did say though that currently he was focused on breaking even. Then he would try to add value.

    If he can do that really quick, he may support BB10 devices, but one can imagine that if the Priv does well, he'll probably increase the number of Android sets and still hold BB10 to minimal development.

    Posted via CB10
    12-18-15 11:04 AM
  9. kvndoom's Avatar
    If I am a BlackBerry corporate customer interested in purchasing 1000 BB10 phones for my organization, but I need an answer about the runtime future before making a decision, then BlackBerry is not going to give me an answer?

    Etc.

    BlackBerry, according to your scenario, is trying to have its cake and eat it too. Very sleazy if true.


    Posted via CB10
    Why are you basing a BlackBerry 10 purchase on Android app compatibility? This is the laughable irony I keep seeing on this board.

    BlackBerry Classic non-camera, Cricket Wireless
    12-18-15 01:21 PM
  10. kvndoom's Avatar
    Ive noticed all u do is troll crackberry crapping on any positive threads about bb10 or any bb10 development. You're a plague on this site to be frank.

    BlackBerry Z30 (10.3.2)
    Crapping (n) {KRAP - ping}: providing truthful, researched,logical answers to quixotic rants.

    Shame on you Frank!!

    BlackBerry Classic non-camera, Cricket Wireless
    DrBoomBotz and Mecca EL like this.
    12-18-15 01:28 PM
  11. mh1983's Avatar
    Why are you basing a BlackBerry 10 purchase on Android app compatibility? This is the laughable irony I keep seeing on this board.

    BlackBerry Classic non-camera, Cricket Wireless
    I based my purchase on Android app compatibility (knowing full well some apps may not run) + wanting a pkb.

    Posted via CB10
    12-18-15 01:47 PM
  12. BBHermes's Avatar
    Why are you basing a BlackBerry 10 purchase on Android app compatibility? This is the laughable irony I keep seeing on this board.

    BlackBerry Classic non-camera, Cricket Wireless
    Your comment misses the point of the thread as well as the point of the *hypothetical* scenario.

    Posted via CB10
    12-18-15 01:47 PM
  13. crucial bbq's Avatar
    All contracts between Google and OEM partners are not public (and may differ from partner to partner), so the exact details are unclear.

    But, we can deduce from the past that Goole doesn't really like people using Android code for other products. A few years back, Acer wanted to launch some other product, and Google accused them of using Android code for that product and threatened them to terminate the licence for google play services (Google: Acer Can't Work On "Non-Compatible Android" & Be Part Of Open Handset Alliance)

    Also BB mentioned themselves that they are supporting the CURRENT version of the runtime. Also, the next 2 planned BB10 OS verisons are mostly maintenance patches. And I don't see BB putting the Android runtime features above BB10 featus in terms of priority.

    Google holds most of the power when licencing Google play services and I am 99% sure they included something in the contract to "persuade" BB to stop upgrading the BB10 runtime. Of course, BB could at any time leave Android and return to BB10 and update the runtime, but that road has alrady proven to be unprofitable.
    Did you read the link? OHA members are not restricted from using competing OSs. BB10 is NOT Android, even with ART. I've been reading up on this over the last three months and there is zero evidence to support the idea that BB10 with a runtime would be in violation. Now, specifically ART may be if the run time is taken directly from AOSP code, but I dunno. I do know that other open source runtimes that allow the use of Android apps are cool. There is also zero evidence that BlackBerry is a member of the OHA or if even the OHA is still a "thing". Most news of the OHA stopped when Andy Rubin stepped down. By the way, it was typically Rubin who enforced the OHA, not Google.

    Didn't John Chen say that he wanted BB10 users to eventually get what they need from their Android devices?
    I have not heard that one but if he did I would imagine what he was saying was that he hopes BB10 users would eventually find the same functionality in a "BlackBerry Android" as they do on BB10.

    These are the facts as we know them.
    1) Every device partner with Google must sign a MADA (Mobile Application Distribution Agreement) that outlines the use of Google apps and Google Android. From the leaked HTC MADA of 2010 we know it includes broad language that prohibits HTC from 'takes any action that may cause or result in the fragmentation of Android'.

    2) Google uses the MADA to control Android/Android code via restricting licensing of Google apps and Google Services to those who agree to MADA.

    3) Google has squashed the inclusion of runtime or Android in non-Android devices by the MADA partner: Acer: Aliyun, Samsung-Tizen. HTC-Windows/Android dual boot.

    4) Over time, Google has included more and more restrictions and requirements for its Android partners: last press reports include mandatory 'Powered by Android' on boot, placement and number of Google apps on the homescreen and minimum shipping OS version.

    5) MADA enforcement/interpretation can differ from partner to partner: Google allowed BB to keep the runtime in existing devices but BB has not indicated further development of the runtime in forward looking announcements (Dev Blog).

    6) Manhours devoted to anything OS related is heavily weighted to BB Android and overall the device division employee count has been cut by large amounts. In the PRIV AMA it was indicated that the reason some features weren't included in PRIV were because of prioritization of resources.

    In total, while there is some very slight chance Google would allow another runtime upgrade under MADA, it doesn't benefit them to do so (why encourage BB10 to become a Google Android rival), and there is no evidence BB is pushing to do so.

    Neither Google nor Blackberry is ever going to respond officially to the runtime issue. In recent months, Google has come under more pressure from the EU for its practices with search and doesn't want anything similar to be focused on its dealings with Android code. Blackberry is not eager to focus attention on the runtime because the future of BB10 has not been yet been decided and throwing chum into the water at this point is hurtful to existing device sales and there is no reason to hurt its new relationship with Google as an Android device partner.
    1. From 2010. Rubin is gone and Google seems more interested in playing nice since he had left.
    2. Yes, if you want Play on your handset you have to play be Google's rules. GApps and G Services are proprietary Google property that do not equal Android and have nothing to do with Android. Well, the apps, anyways.
    3. Tizen has an open source runtime that allows for the use of Android apps on the Tizen OS.
    4. Once again, if you want those GApps you gotta do what Google says. Kind of like all of the Windows PCs and laptops that required to have those decals attached to them. It's a part of the deal.
    5. Yes, and further evidence that the OHA is no longer relevant or even was. The OHA was supposed to vote on things as a group but in the end it has always been Google making individual Compatibility deals/requirements with each individual vendor.

    This is how/why BlackBerry got on board with Google/Play without becoming a member.
    6. Yup. Even if ART on BB10 was not a violation BlackBerry simply does not have the resources to update; at least not now.
    BBHermes and Mecca EL like this.
    12-18-15 04:42 PM
  14. Ment's Avatar
    1. From 2010. Rubin is gone and Google seems more interested in playing nice since he had left.
    2. Yes, if you want Play on your handset you have to play be Google's rules. GApps and G Services are proprietary Google property that do not equal Android and have nothing to do with Android. Well, the apps, anyways.
    3. Tizen has an open source runtime that allows for the use of Android apps on the Tizen OS.
    4. Once again, if you want those GApps you gotta do what Google says. Kind of like all of the Windows PCs and laptops that required to have those decals attached to them. It's a part of the deal.
    5. Yes, and further evidence that the OHA is no longer relevant or even was. The OHA was supposed to vote on things as a group but in the end it has always been Google making individual Compatibility deals/requirements with each individual vendor.

    This is how/why BlackBerry got on board with Google/Play without becoming a member.
    6. Yup. Even if ART on BB10 was not a violation BlackBerry simply does not have the resources to update; at least not now.
    1) I don't think you can attribute that to Rubin. Google has cemented its dominance that no one now attempts to oppose them. Android partners thru trial and error now know the rules, ie Acer would never try it again, neither HTC, Moto or Samsung all if which have gotten their hands slapped; Samsung most recently in its attempt to move Touchwiz further away from stock Android.

    3) Tizen has a runtime available but its not installed or developed by Samsung that is the core difference. BB cannot go this route due to security reasons.
    12-18-15 05:01 PM
  15. William Lester-Clay's Avatar
    Ok.......

    Android is open source, and from what I can understand easily hacked(i.e. Rooting or whatever the case may be). So what is to stop enthusiasts /developers from extracting and making available the latest runtime to be sideloaded.

    And I am not talking about patched apps like Cobalts play store thread. Strictly talking about a "hacker" with a nexus phone plugged into his/her computer. I said nexus because it is a google phone. Perhaps there is an easier target I do not know.



    Posted via CB10
    12-18-15 06:07 PM
  16. Ment's Avatar
    Ok.......

    Android is open source, and from what I can understand easily hacked(i.e. Rooting or whatever the case may be). So what is to stop enthusiasts /developers from extracting and making available the latest runtime to be sideloaded.

    And I am not talking about patched apps like Cobalts play store thread. Strictly talking about a "hacker" with a nexus phone plugged into his/her computer. I said nexus because it is a google phone. Perhaps there is an easier target I do not know.



    Posted via CB10
    You can take the runtime source code out of lets say Marshmallow, the problem is bringing it into and meshing it with BB10 so that its functional. BB doesn't let developers have that kind of access.
    12-18-15 06:15 PM
  17. William Lester-Clay's Avatar
    I know I am running off topic from the OP, what about those autoloaders. They are used for the installation of leaked or unofficial OS's so why not one for an ART as part of a sideload

    Just asking because I have never seen discussions go down this road.

    Posted via CB10
    12-18-15 06:23 PM
  18. Ment's Avatar
    I know I am running off topic from the OP, what about those autoloaders. They are used for the installation of leaked or unofficial OS's so why not one for an ART as part of a sideload

    Just asking because I have never seen discussions go down this road.

    Posted via CB10
    If BB does it then there is no difference than including an upgraded one in an OS update. They wouldn't let anyone else do it due to their security model and no reason to do it themselves for the low percentage of users would use an autoloader/Blitz process. They'd be better off using those resources to make a larger pool of BB10 users happy by updating the FB app for example.
    12-18-15 06:41 PM
  19. Supa_Fly1's Avatar
    If BB does it then there is no difference than including an upgraded one in an OS update. They wouldn't let anyone else do it due to their security model and no reason to do it themselves for the low percentage of users would use an autoloader/Blitz process. They'd be better off using those resources to make a larger pool of BB10 users happy by updating the FB app for example.
    Goddammit what is this junk about FB app?! There is NOTHING wrong with it. It's designed the way it is. It's not meant to emulate ioS/android FB apps it's a portal into the core functionality of FB. It works as designed not the latest bells and whistles to offer that so many State needs to be fixed. Man use the website.

    вιaсĸвεггч Z10 via CB10 (Z10STL100-3/10.3.2.2639) on BES12
    12-19-15 01:20 AM
44 12

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