01-10-22 02:29 PM
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  1. EndRacism's Avatar
    Just curious, I understand the brute force of Carriers shutting off 2G and 3G, which isn't going to be a BB problem only.

    Why would a BB10 OS with 4G capability lose it's ability to send and receive phone calls and text over sim card. ( I realize this could be a bigger problem through ATT sim cards.)


    Update; https://www.phonearena.com/news/when...ut-3G_id125233
    Last edited by EndRacism; 10-05-21 at 07:51 AM.
    10-05-21 06:19 AM
  2. spARTacus's Avatar
    Just curious, I understand the brute force of Carriers shutting off 2G and 3G, which isn't going to be a BB problem only.

    Why would a BB10 OS with 4G capability lose it's ability to send and receive phone calls and text over sim card. ( I realize this could be a bigger problem through ATT sim cards.)
    They won't have to lose their ability, in my opinion. Rather, it's just a way for BlackBerry (and the carriers) to get users to stop expecting the phones to reliably work in terms of if the phones (and their apps) can be updated via BlackBerry World, and for other backend BlackBerry services (which presumably are about to be shut down by BlackBerry). Now, if the carriers also choose to black list the phones, so as to not have to deal with them anymore as a hassle or risk (or for whatever other reasons), well then that is also another thing.
    10-05-21 06:54 AM
  3. EndRacism's Avatar
    They won't have to lose their ability, in my opinion. Rather, it's just a way for BlackBerry (and the carriers) to get users to stop expecting the phones to reliably work in terms of if the phones (and their apps) can be updated via BlackBerry World, and for other backend BlackBerry services (which presumably are about to be shut down by BlackBerry). Now, if the carriers also choose to black list the phones, so as to not have to deal with them anymore as a hassle or risk (or for whatever other reasons), well then that is also another thing.
    They make it sound like cellular and data are routed through and can only run through BB routers or something.
    RobC450 likes this.
    10-05-21 06:58 AM
  4. spARTacus's Avatar
    They make it sound like cellular and data are routed through and can only run through BB routers or something.
    Based on some of the earlier messages I saw from some of the carriers, it is my opinion that some of the carriers are miss-representing the situation for what BlackBerry is saying, and BlackBerry has no interest in setting the record straight. All of them I suspect have their reasons for wanting less people still using BlackBerry phones.
    RobC450 likes this.
    10-05-21 07:02 AM
  5. EndRacism's Avatar
    The obvious is, the carriers have a symbiotic relationship where the carriers want cell phone owners, they profit in many ways by selling phones and service, and the phone makers want to sell everyone 29 phones per year, bottom line is money. Fear drives everything on earth, fear your phone is going to die and you better buy a new one Now, Before It's Too Late!!! Little do they know I buy only used phones!
    10-05-21 07:19 AM
  6. spARTacus's Avatar
    For BlackBerry, I think they are interested in more folks self moving off their phones before things shut down more, so there will be less people left to complain when more things stop working. BlackBerry is probably also concerned about the increasing security risk associated to their old BlackBerry phones, in terms of hurting BlackBerry reputation.

    For the carriers, I assume they just love any opportunity for if a user could possibly ditch a current phone and therefore maybe purchase a new carrier sold one, and/or also any other new one that uses more data than older ones.
    10-05-21 07:27 AM
  7. spARTacus's Avatar
    ...Little do they know I buy only used phones!
    This is a good money-wise strategy, in my opinion.
    10-05-21 07:29 AM
  8. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Just curious, I understand the brute force of Carriers shutting off 2G and 3G, which isn't going to be a BB problem only.

    Why would a BB10 OS with 4G capability lose it's ability to send and receive phone calls and text over sim card. ( I realize this could be a bigger problem through ATT sim cards.)
    Because the earlier BB10 phones don’t have compatible VoLTE technologies and those phones rely on 3G capabilities for phone calls and texts. It will affect VZW and TMO users equally as those carriers shut down 3G as well.
    app_Developer likes this.
    10-05-21 07:30 AM
  9. EndRacism's Avatar
    Because the earlier BB10 phones don’t have compatible VoLTE technologies and those phones rely on 3G capabilities for phone calls and texts. It will affect VZW and TMO users equally as those carriers shut down 3G as well.
    OK, but what about all the BB10 phones with 4G capability?
    10-05-21 07:50 AM
  10. howarmat's Avatar
    OK, but what about all the BB10 phones with 4G capability?
    Its not a 4g thing its a VOLTE thing
    10-05-21 08:10 AM
  11. EndRacism's Avatar
    Its not a 4g thing its a VOLTE thing
    Question: I just now switched my Passport to only 4 and 3G, the actual available network shows this; T-Mobile 4G - Voice and Data. Doesn't this prove T-Mo 4G supports voice and data alone?

    FYI: With all G's it went to; 4G LTE, with 2g off; 4G LTE, switched to 4-3 and 2G; 4G voice and data, then back to 4&3G only for 4G Voice and data.
    10-05-21 08:19 AM
  12. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    OK, but what about all the BB10 phones with 4G capability?
    The 4G LTE is about data and VoLTE is about Voice and texting capabilities over LTE similar to high speed landline, cable or fiber optic internet systems and Voice over IP or VoIP capabilities.
    10-05-21 08:21 AM
  13. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Question: I just now switched my Passport to only 4 and 3G, the actual available network shows this; T-Mobile 4G - Voice and Data. Doesn't this prove T-Mo 4G supports voice and data alone?

    FYI: With all G's it went to; 4G LTE, with 2g off; 4G LTE, switched to 4-3 and 2G; 4G voice and data, then back to 4&3G only for 4G Voice and data.
    Basically, the initial LTE standards are what BB10 was built on. As VoLTE standards were developed, the earliest LTE phones weren’t built to VoLTE current standards. The device components used in an LTE device from earlier generation typically didn’t have the additional VoLTE necessary extras. That’s why this is affecting lots of earlier 4G LTE devices and not just BlackBerry alone.
    10-05-21 08:39 AM
  14. conite's Avatar
    Just curious, I understand the brute force of Carriers shutting off 2G and 3G, which isn't going to be a BB problem only.

    Why would a BB10 OS with 4G capability lose it's ability to send and receive phone calls and text over sim card. ( I realize this could be a bigger problem through ATT sim cards.)


    Update; https://www.phonearena.com/news/when...ut-3G_id125233
    The VoLTE calling feature is not to be confused with the 4G/LTE network. The former has to be whitelisted by the carrier to function - which is required for talk and text when 3G is turned off.

    The added issue with BB10 is that its VoLTE implementation isn't compatible anyway.
    Last edited by conite; 10-05-21 at 12:33 PM.
    10-05-21 09:15 AM
  15. app_Developer's Avatar
    Because the earlier BB10 phones don’t have compatible VoLTE technologies and those phones rely on 3G capabilities for phone calls and texts. It will affect VZW and TMO users equally as those carriers shut down 3G as well.
    This is the actual technical reason for this. Sometimes we rush to conspiracies and forget that there is an actual reason here.

    Also, other carriers and regulatory agencies around the world will and have made their own choices about the future of 3G. It depends on their usage and density and other economic factors.

    But eventually 3G will go away and that bandwidth will be recycled. It just may be a very long time in some parts of the world and a very short transition in others. But the trend to use bandwidth more efficiently is everywhere.
    pdr733 likes this.
    10-05-21 12:09 PM
  16. pdr733's Avatar
    Sorry for being blunt but most of the argument in this topic (against the shutdown of 3G and if applicable, 2G) is BS.
    Not the brute force of carriers is shutting down 2G and 3G, but the march of technology. Same way I cannot use an NMT (analog) phone as those were switched off during the 2000s in different countries.
    Here in Europe 3G is switched off in 2022&23 in most countries, 2G will stay for a few years mostly because of non phone applications (iot/m2m). When it goes away in late 2020s, there will be practically no 2G users left anyway.
    In America, because of the shutdown of 2G and 3G happening together it will be a bit more disruptive. But apart from AT&T where b/c of whitelisting nominally VoLTE capable devices will also be affected, the large majority of people already has a VoLTE capable phone.
    Only a small percentage of users, clinging to long obsolete devices (running long deprecated OS versions or practically defunct operating systems) will be affected.
    I am against e-waste and don't think those who are upgrading yearly are making an optimal decision (to put it in a PC way)
    But one cannot expect a 8 year old device running a defunct operating system to be supported everywhere.
    10-05-21 01:34 PM
  17. SteinwayTransitCorp's Avatar
    Sorry for being blunt but most of the argument in this topic (against the shutdown of 3G and if applicable, 2G) is BS.
    Not the brute force of carriers is shutting down 2G and 3G, but the march of technology. Same way I cannot use an NMT (analog) phone as those were switched off during the 2000s in different countries.
    Here in Europe 3G is switched off in 2022&23 in most countries, 2G will stay for a few years mostly because of non phone applications (iot/m2m). When it goes away in late 2020s, there will be practically no 2G users left anyway.
    In America, because of the shutdown of 2G and 3G happening together it will be a bit more disruptive. But apart from AT&T where b/c of whitelisting nominally VoLTE capable devices will also be affected, the large majority of people already has a VoLTE capable phone.
    Only a small percentage of users, clinging to long obsolete devices (running long deprecated OS versions or practically defunct operating systems) will be affected.
    I am against e-waste and don't think those who are upgrading yearly are making an optimal decision (to put it in a PC way)
    But one cannot expect a 8 year old device running a defunct operating system to be supported everywhere.
    One last thought the carriers are having trouble shutting down 3G as many commercial devices that call home only use 3G. They have delayed the shut down two times but it is what it is.

    You have to play the cards you are dealt
    10-05-21 05:10 PM
  18. martyjelen's Avatar
    Just curious, I understand the brute force of Carriers shutting off 2G and 3G, which isn't going to be a BB problem only.

    Why would a BB10 OS with 4G capability lose it's ability to send and receive phone calls and text over sim card. ( I realize this could be a bigger problem through ATT sim cards.)


    Update; https://www.phonearena.com/news/when...ut-3G_id125233
    Because you can use 4g only for data, not for calling and texting on blackberry. If you dont't have 2g or 3g in your country, your phone will not work.

    Posted via CB10
    10-05-21 05:28 PM
  19. RobC450's Avatar
    Does a Passport SE have the required VoLTE tech since it was the last BB10 device developed?
    10-06-21 12:12 PM
  20. howarmat's Avatar
    Does a Passport SE have the required VoLTE tech since it was the last BB10 device developed?
    no
    10-06-21 12:20 PM
  21. LateLateLateShow's Avatar
    Hi EndRacism.
    They make it sound like cellular and data are routed through and can only run through BB routers or something.
    We know that can't be the case as many are using BB10 devices without a BB ID, and the carriers absolutely don't involve BlackBerry in their service provision at this point.

    Because the earlier BB10 phones don’t have compatible VoLTE technologies and those phones rely on 3G capabilities for phone calls and texts. It will affect VZW and TMO users equally as those carriers shut down 3G as well.
    The added issue with BB10 is that its VoLTE implementation isn't compatible anyway.
    As I have shown in another thread, (https://forums.crackberry.com/blackb...e-1191800-new/) VoLTE is clearly working on a Verizon MVNO. I don't know about AT&T, but T-Mobile is specifically blocking BB10 devices from IMS support, and you'll have a hard time (read 'just shy of impossible') getting that to change. If you do, let us know!
    Question: I just now switched my Passport to only 4 and 3G, the actual available network shows this; T-Mobile 4G - Voice and Data. Doesn't this prove T-Mo 4G supports voice and data alone?

    FYI: With all G's it went to; 4G LTE, with 2g off; 4G LTE, switched to 4-3 and 2G; 4G Voice and data.
    The VoLTE calling feature is not to be confused with the 4G/LTE network. The former has to be whitelisted by the carrier to function - which is required for talk and text when 3G is turned off.
    With T-Mobile there is 2G, displayed as G or g, or E or e; there is 3G, displayed as 3G, but not likely these days; there is HSPA+, displayed as 4G but technically akin to 3G technology; and there is 4GLTE, displayed as 4GLTE. If the Passport doesn't display 4GLTE during a call, you aren't making a VoLTE call, even if it says 4G and HD Voice during the call. HSPA+ is capable of digital voice calls, aka HD calling or HD Voice, and can carry data at the same time, but since it is a class of 3G technology, and not LTE, it will be gone with the 2G and 3G shutdown.

    HTH.

    LLLS
    10-07-21 01:40 AM
  22. EndRacism's Avatar
    Hi EndRacism.


    We know that can't be the case as many are using BB10 devices without a BB ID, and the carriers absolutely don't involve BlackBerry in their service provision at this point.




    As I have shown in another thread, (https://forums.crackberry.com/blackb...e-1191800-new/) VoLTE is clearly working on a Verizon MVNO. I don't know about AT&T, but T-Mobile is specifically blocking BB10 devices from IMS support, and you'll have a hard time (read 'just shy of impossible') getting that to change. If you do, let us know!



    With T-Mobile there is 2G, displayed as G or g, or E or e; there is 3G, displayed as 3G, but not likely these days; there is HSPA+, displayed as 4G but technically akin to 3G technology; and there is 4GLTE, displayed as 4GLTE. If the Passport doesn't display 4GLTE during a call, you aren't making a VoLTE call, even if it says 4G and HD Voice during the call. HSPA+ is capable of digital voice calls, aka HD calling or HD Voice, and can carry data at the same time, but since it is a class of 3G technology, and not LTE, it will be gone with the 2G and 3G shutdown.

    HTH.

    LLLS
    Thanks for the great details, bottom line it looks dismal and inevitable for anything but a Priv. , for future. Seriously, I appreciate the info you provided.
    10-07-21 05:31 AM
  23. conite's Avatar
    Thanks for the great details, bottom line it looks dismal and inevitable for anything but a Priv. , for future. Seriously, I appreciate the info you provided.
    But only the specific Priv model and variant sold by AT&T.
    10-07-21 08:53 AM
  24. NakaharaN's Avatar
    Just wanted to mention that ATT shut off my working Blackberry Classic which they setup for me and me a crap phone which is impossible to type a text on which is all I use my phone for besides calls. They will not support 4G LTE even though the crap phone is running 4GLTE Ever since they got into bed with Apple, they have offered terrible service, if you own a blackberry and they gave me my first world phone many years ago. I hope this is not the end of proper Crackberry support. Moving my phone to another service as soon as i figure out a new phone, not an Apple and has a keyboard.
    11-04-21 09:58 PM
  25. conite's Avatar
    Just wanted to mention that ATT shut off my working Blackberry Classic which they setup for me and me a crap phone which is impossible to type a text on which is all I use my phone for besides calls. They will not support 4G LTE even though the crap phone is running 4GLTE Ever since they got into bed with Apple, they have offered terrible service, if you own a blackberry and they gave me my first world phone many years ago. I hope this is not the end of proper Crackberry support. Moving my phone to another service as soon as i figure out a new phone, not an Apple and has a keyboard.
    BB10 won't work on ANY network for calls next year. It doesn't support the current implementation of VoLTE.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    11-04-21 10:40 PM
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