[Supa_Fly1]

Hi Everyone,

Yes this is another post about Non-removable batteries but with a different take ... an Enterprise view.

Let's start off with the negatives of having removable batteries - since we've seen countless posts already in various threads about their benefits.

Removable Battery Negatives:

1. Normally a 90 day warranty, or a warranty shorter than that of the phone itself. Forcing the user to replace their battery at fairly high costs in comparison to the cost of the phone on contract - example 1/4th or 2/3rds depending on the phone, manufacturer, and popularity of the phone - the less popular the less supply of external batteries carried, manufactured and more expensive to replace for the end user.

2. Non-removable batteries tend, for the most part, cannot compete with the capacities of the internal batteries. There are a few, say handful of, smartphones that have larger than 3000mAh batteries.

Choices for after market large(r) capacity removable batteries are there but still limited in choices, availability and reliability (some non household name manufacturer with peculiar warranties or worse warranty support on replacements/faulty units. Moreover these aftermarket are not supported and if they damage your phone that null & voids your phones warranty!

Now let's consider potential benefits of Internal -Batteries shall we?

* we already know the following:
A. Sealed batteries offer longer battery life.
B. Sealed batteries offer more accurate readings on battery life, usage, and estimates on remaining battery life
C. Water Resistance, Dust Resistance and to a tiny level Impact resistance or physical damage to the battery on drops. All the these - except for the latter, Blackberry has yet to offer; Arrgh!!

Potential Internal-Battery Benefits:

1. Security from Theft:
Imagine that BES12 offers a new security IT Policy that by default can:
- Disable manual device resets
- Disable manual device power-down/recycles
- Disable Blackberry Link/Blend (unsure full features at time of writing) from accessing the device for backup, wipes, installation of OS.
- Disable Bootrom from being accessed!

Why would we want such features?! Currently so many theives powercycle, or power down immediately an iOS/Android device in order to prevent tracking. Then connect to USB and a PC/Mac/Linux OS with native manufacturer tools/drivers or more than likely 3rd party tools to retrieve data, yet most likely Re-Install the OS and then claim ownership with immediate re-registration so that the original owner cannot report accurate location (GPS/cellular triangulation) of the stolen device and the cloud service no longer shows them as ownership!

Stolen BlackBerry's used to be a BIG deal 5yrs+ ago maybe not so much now ... but those Passports are going to be in such huge demand and considering their target market - X-Pros and Executives (whom have a tendency to alway loose/misplace technology since their payrate offers immediate replacement regardless of the cost) lots of theives - not your average one will want those devices AND the data placed within them.

According to the research study done by Osterman Research on BlackBerry Biz Blog article "Risky Business" ...

"43 percent have accessed sensitive corporate data on their personal device while on an unsecured public network, such as the airport or a coffee shop."

"15 percent of survey respondents believe they have �none to minimal� responsibility to protect corporate data stored on their personal devices."

^ with the above behaviour ... it's time to secure the devices in a slightly different way ... from theives and their habits along with the end users being careless.

So coming to a close there is a LOT of potential for BlackBerry to continue forward with removable batteries.

This also includes:
A more comprehensive and fluid design of the handheld product, a chance for BlackBerry to develop a RUGGED Q10/Passport for mining industry for those at mine sites and in extreme temperatures that include dust and water proofing.

[skstrials]

No

1. Removable batteries do NOT have longer battery life.

HTC One M7 with sealed in battery performs worse than a similarly sized Galaxy S4 with a removable battery.

The Q10 has a better battery life than an Iphone with sealed in battery.

Each phone is different and whether the battery is sealed in or not does not matter for battery life - it can go both ways. Some removable battery phones will have long battery life while some will have short battery life.

2. Sealed in battery does NOT contribute to water and dust resistance.

Iphones readily let dust and fabric into their speaker ports while rugged phones with removable batteries such as Galaxy S4 Active and CAT B15 provide dust and water resistance with removable battery ability.
In fact, there are more rugged phones with removable battery than with sealed in battery because people who actually use the ruggedness of the phone on the field demand removable batteries on their phones.

You have to look at what the whole phone is designed around for its ruggedness and not just sealed in or removable battery.

3. Repair cost is higher for sealed in battery phones.

The battery is not likely to go wrong in the first year of ownership. It is usually after the first year and around the second year mark that the battery will fail to hold charges. If the battery breaks on a sealed in battery phone and you are out of the warranty, the enterprise owner is screwed over with the absurd battery repair cost while a removable battery can be swapped for a fraction of the cost and time.

And enterprise users will hold on to their phones for a lot longer than one year with heavy usage.

Easy serviceability is a key in any enterprise product.

A battery is a wear item, like a battery on your wrist watch, like a light bulb in your bedroom. It just does not make any sense to have a cellphone battery that is not removable.

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[Supa_Fly1]

[QUOTE=skstrials;10753137]No

1. Removable batteries do NOT have longer battery life.

HTC One M7 with sealed in battery performs worse than a similarly sized Galaxy S4 with a removable battery.

The Q10 has a better battery life than an Iphone with sealed in battery.

[QUOTE=skstrials;10753137]

Sony Xperia Z1, Z1 Compact, and Z2 all have better performance than their Samsung counterparts: facts.
BlackBerry Z30 has more battery capacity and real world battery life than ANY OTHER BLACKBERRY TO DATE!
Motorola RAZR Android devices ... all 4 models tout over 24hrs of battery daily heavy use (1 the first of that series is 12hrs).

Keeping count ... that's 7 devices to your 2 comparison thus far.

Each phone is different and whether the battery is sealed in or not does not matter for battery life - it can go both ways. Some removable battery phones will have long battery life while some will have short battery life.

Seems to be very few devices have longer battery life when external and many over the course of the year have accurate measurements.

Ownership then falls into the manufacturer - even now Apple is taken the onis for a battery replacement program.

2. Sealed in battery does NOT contribute to water and dust resistance.

By design their less prone. If you're wagering Samsungs S5 ... yeah ... lets see over time of 1-2yrs how well that does with Sony's experience of over 5yrs having IP55 ratings on their devices since the OSE days of feature

3. Repair cost is higher for sealed in battery phones.

^ not for the end user ... I've specifically stated that in my original post. Recyling fees yes to the manufacturer and many governments including Canada have huge tax rebates that are significantly tangible for manufacturers. Many times the cost of disposal is handed off to the company that actually makes the batteries, while the phone company still gets the rebates.

The battery is not likely to go wrong in the first year of ownership.

Have you already forgotten battery life issues with the Z10 before firmware resolved it ... for the most part only to getting worse again in the last serveral 10.2 updates ... have a look at the threads here.

It is usually after the first year and around the second year mark that the battery will fail to hold charges. If the battery breaks on a sealed in battery phone and you are out of the warranty,

Sealed batteries affecting the enterprise dealer ... I've not come across this as of yet. The last company I worked for was in transition so no time before I was gone to see this come into affect. Either way faulty or dead batteries does not screw over the enterprise user other than inconvenience of the time to backup and replace the device. The cost is handed off to the manufacturer not the end user.

Easy serviceability is indeed the key to enterprise and that can easily be done by changing perception and old policies of warranty and replacement under contract. Heck include it in the BES12 per user license support.

A battery is a wear item, like a battery on your wrist watch, like a light bulb in your bedroom. It just does not make any sense to have a cellphone battery that is not removable.

EVERYTHING on a phone or a watch is a wear item. Using a watch is a very poor example but I'll go with it:
Watches are so efficient you need only replace those using a battery once every year, 2-4yrs being the norm.
Many wrist watches now have an internal sealed battery with Kinetic energy to charge them - Seiko being one brand and it's done very well. Most likely you're going to replace the watch band, pins that hold them to the watch face or the clips quicker than the battery. On a cell phone the casing is usually dented and replaced before most users need to replace the battery ... if they choose to carry their device 'naked'.

The paradigm to change in my post is getting rid of the old thoughts, waranties and support structure. Very many arguments where made about wireless charging ... and that is changing perceptions across the globe. For some reason BB chose only the Verizon Z30 to have this.

The debate continues
(well done by the way!)

[DStLouis]

When considering many business usage, even a very large battery did not warrant that you won't run out of juice.
Take me as an example, I often work in industries, whereas we are surrounded by concrete, machines, metal, power wiring...even area that I do believe are as good as nuclear bunker. Working in such place, It's common that our device are fighting to find a signal... in such situation Cell phone batteries are just draining like crazy (that's apply to all phone manufacturer).

Now when we have an internal battery, even a large one could be down and we have no other choice then to be hook somewhere, ... and businesses wise we rarely can afford.

Today I still prefer to run my Z10 with a spare battery then jump to Z30 because of that.

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[DStLouis]

Internal battery could allow larger capacities simply because they could fill odd spaces and make it larger in total, whereas we generally want to maintain removable battery to a quite regular geometry.

My suggestion is to use both, a combination of internal and removable batteries:
- An internal battery that fill odd space on devices
- And a out-swapable battery (let say the size of the Z10 battery ( or larger)

This way we could always carry a spare battery (when usage may requires it), simply swap batteries and keep going.

No need to worry about shutting the device and wait it get back alive... the internal battery will keep it alive.
That's also apply to the above point were internal battery could always maintain GPS alive, and maintain the possibility to track any stolen/lost devices.


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[AnimalPak200]

The thing about Enterprise devices (not BYOD), is that the users couldn't care less about it. Back in the day when BlackBerry ruled the corporate world, it wasn't uncommon for someone at IT to have a drawer full of JM1s, D-X1s, etc. Users would brutally abuse their device batteries (fully discharging, leaving discharged for weekend, never fully charging, etc.) and when it started to die, they would simply walk up to the IT person and ask for a new one.

Now, you'll need a brand new Passport or Z30,.. or confiscate the user's device to send it off to an authorized repair shop to get the battery swapped.

Don't get me wrong, this is a way better business model for BlackBerry... but, as an end user, it's hard to argue for "built-in" (as Apple calls them) batteries.

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