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- I don't understand how they continue to sell BB10 devices? Why would anyone invest in a dead OS?
I was planning on buying a Passport and now I won't
This sucks..Windows phones are almost dead and BB10is toast..we need more choices not less.01-29-16 02:38 PMLike 0 - They could be stocking up.
I fully plan on buying another Z30 to keep on the shelf in case mine ever give's up the ghost.01-29-16 02:59 PMLike 0 -
- BlackBerry are STILL, to this day a company I simply cannot understand.
The move away from BB10 to Android seems logical on the surface, especially considering that BB10 has been a commercial failure (and no longer any window for a turnaround).
What completely baffles me is that their 'push' to Android manifests in the 'Priv' - a device named after a public convenience, built like something out of a dollar store, with an application suite that doesn't live up to the 'privacy' moniker and a pricetag as off-putting as BlackBerry's marketing.
WHY do that?! They CAN build a high quality device. They CAN price it more realistically. They HAVE resources and money to launch with better apps.
But they don't. And there really is no sensible explanation as to why.
Posted via CB1001-29-16 04:41 PMLike 4 -
As for price, they have the worst economies of scale in the business given the low volume. Once you get under 5 million devices per year, you don't have much to spread the fixed costs over. The same goes for the native apps which is all fixed cost. Plus, they are trying to "support" two different platforms so that's two of everything and you even have iOS versions of some apps which have to be expensed to somebody.
It all makes sense to me.01-29-16 04:57 PMLike 0 - Well, they can't have maintained much in-house design expertise as John Chen made a big push to outsource a lot of the hardware design and manufacturing. You probably can't expect 1st tier quality given that.
As for price, they have the worst economies of scale in the business given the low volume. Once you get under 5 million devices per year, you don't have much to spread the fixed costs over. The same goes for the native apps which is all fixed cost. Plus, they are trying to "support" two different platforms so that's two of everything and you even have iOS versions of some apps which have to be expensed to somebody.
It all makes sense to me.
Posted via CB10GadgetTravel and crackberry_geek like this.01-29-16 05:03 PMLike 2 - Understood, but what we know (at least if Chen's quarterly results call is to be believed) is that BlackBerry turn a substantial profit on each device with Priv. I doubt that build quality accounts for as much of the total device cost as chipset, camera module, screen etc. so surely, conceivably this could have been improved considerably without severely impacting manufacturing costs?
Posted via CB1001-29-16 05:14 PMLike 0 - Understood, but what we know (at least if Chen's quarterly results call is to be believed) is that BlackBerry turn a substantial profit on each device with Priv. I doubt that build quality accounts for as much of the total device cost as chipset, camera module, screen etc. so surely, conceivably this could have been improved considerably without severely impacting manufacturing costs?
So, while they make a sizable gross profit on the phone (Sale Price to Distributors minus Parts & Manufacturing Costs), their net profit (Sale Price to Distributors minus all expenses related to the Priv) is still a negative number - just a much smaller negative number than it was for BB10 phones. If Priv + Vienna = 5M or more phones per year, sustained, then they'll break even and start turning a profit. If not, the smartphone division will continue to have losses that continue to leech profits from other parts of the company - until Chen shuts it down for good.
The point is, even at the current price, which most people consider to be high, and even with Google shouldering much of the cost of development, BB is still generating losses with smartphones, and had they continued with BB10, those losses would be far, far higher.
If you've ever watched one of those "business rescue" shows (Kitchen Nightmares, Restaurant Impossible, Bar Rescue, etc.), you'll see that the business owners are drowning in losses despite continuing to generate some revenues (food or drink sales) that turn a gross profit. That's because when sales volumes are low, those gross profits aren't big enough to offset all of the substantial overhead costs of the business: rent/mortgage, utilities, payroll, food/drink inventory, advertising, taxes, maintenance, etc. It's not enough to continue to sell burgers or drinks - they have to get the VOLUME up in order to pay all the overhead and still have money left over, and if they don't, the business goes bankrupt.
That's exactly the situation that BB's smartphone business is in, and moving to Android was a way to lower costs substantially while hopefully making it easier to increase total sales volumes. It's still too early to know if it will work (BB had many other things against it than simple financial losses), but one thing is not in doubt: sticking to BB10 would have killed (at least) the smartphone business already.01-29-16 05:51 PMLike 6 - Chen himself said that BB needs to sell 5M+ Android phones per year just to break even (it was 10M phones if it was BB10 - a reflection that BB10 costs significantly more for BB to build on and maintain). The Priv isn't close to that at this point.
So, while they make a sizable gross profit on the phone (Sale Price to Distributors minus Parts & Manufacturing Costs), their net profit (Sale Price to Distributors minus all expenses related to the Priv) is still a negative number - just a much smaller negative number than it was for BB10 phones. If Priv + Vienna = 5M or more phones per year, sustained, then they'll break even and start turning a profit. If not, the smartphone division will continue to have losses that continue to leech profits from other parts of the company - until Chen shuts it down for good.
The point is, even at the current price, which most people consider to be high, and even with Google shouldering much of the cost of development, BB is still generating losses with smartphones, and had they continued with BB10, those losses would be far, far higher.
If you've ever watched one of those "business rescue" shows (Kitchen Nightmares, Restaurant Impossible, Bar Rescue, etc.), you'll see that the business owners are drowning in losses despite continuing to generate some revenues (food or drink sales) that turn a gross profit. That's because when sales volumes are low, those gross profits aren't big enough to offset all of the substantial overhead costs of the business: rent/mortgage, utilities, payroll, food/drink inventory, advertising, taxes, maintenance, etc. It's not enough to continue to sell burgers or drinks - they have to get the VOLUME up in order to pay all the overhead and still have money left over, and if they don't, the business goes bankrupt.
That's exactly the situation that BB's smartphone business is in, and moving to Android was a way to lower costs substantially while hopefully making it easier to increase total sales volumes. It's still too early to know if it will work (BB had many other things against it than simple financial losses), but one thing is not in doubt: sticking to BB10 would have killed (at least) the smartphone business already.
This approach is self-defeating.
Posted via CB10JeepBB and crackberry_geek like this.01-29-16 06:05 PMLike 2 - Superfly_FRRetired Moderator
It's not a proportional ratio. You just can't make the same % gains when you're 100 times smaller. In no dream.
Posted via CB10Laura Knotek and q649 like this.01-29-16 06:21 PMLike 2 - It seems as though Crackberry has become a haven for trolls. It also seems like CrackBerry's admins are cool with that.
Not enjoying it like I used to. BlackBerry can do what it needs to survive. I ain't trippin about that. I like this platform and until I choose to move on ( or whatever), I would like to deal with CB! If becomes less Enjoyable, I'm sure me and other community members would stop coming here.
Z10 STL 100-3 with vitamin (SR) 10.3.2.2836 (OS version 10.3.2.2876) on AT&T01-29-16 07:28 PMLike 3 - It seems as though Crackberry has become a haven for trolls. It also seems like CrackBerry's admins are cool with that.
Not enjoying it like I used to. BlackBerry can do what it needs to survive. I ain't trippin about that. I like this platform and until I choose to move on ( or whatever), I would like to deal with CB! If becomes less Enjoyable, I'm sure me and other community members would stop coming here.
Z10 STL 100-3 with vitamin (SR) 10.3.2.2836 (OS version 10.3.2.2876) on AT&T
Just to be clear, and if you need to discuss this further PM me, we're not chummy with trolls. We're open to allowing discussion involving differing opinion. This thread started because of what a BlackBerry executive said. We've had many complain lately there isn't enough about BB10 on CrackBerry. Well, here's something, like it or not. You can choose to disagree, but this thread is anything but trolling. Taking a thread off topic to complain about the forum and it's membership. Now that's trolling.
And now back on topic...01-29-16 08:23 PMLike 18 -
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Posted via CB10 using BlackBerry Passport (OG Red)01-30-16 12:29 AMLike 0 -
Heck, I sometimes go on a smartphone hiatus and use a flip phone. LOL For people like me, BB can never develop the OS further and we'll still be fine so long as they provide security updates.anon(5061193) and TheAuthority like this.01-30-16 04:09 AMLike 2 -
Posted via CB10TheAuthority likes this.01-30-16 04:31 AMLike 1 - IMO consumers who know nothing about BlackBerry and qwerty keyboards are not going to take a risk and spend a lot of money on a premium handset. The only chance they had (and it's probably too late now) was to release a cheaper handset where people might spend a couple of hundred dollars just to try it out.anon(5061193) likes this.01-30-16 05:26 AMLike 1
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- Good post, thanks. I understand and agree with a lot of what you are saying, but the need to deliver a higher VOLUME of sales in order to break even isn't going to be met with a product like Priv. Cutting a few dollars per unit in materials is a false economy when competing, pricewise, with PREMIUM handsets that are of a visibly higher build quality, because very few consumers will choose Priv over more popular alternatives.
This approach is self-defeating.
At that point, BB10 history will repeat. The uber-fans will insist that a successor device to the Priv is coming, that BB doesn't need to play by the same annual device refresh rules as everyone else in the industry, and that anyway their Priv still works great and no better device could possibly be created.
In time, it will become generally realised that BB is out of the hardware business - not because of any announcement but because of the simple truth that they won't have released a new phone in the previous couple of years.dejanh and DrBoomBotz like this.01-30-16 06:11 AMLike 2 - IMO it seems to me that BlackBerry is building their own Android product. Please the BlackBerry Fans by bringing us a complete blackberry 10 experience within the Android device
Z1001-30-16 08:02 AMLike 0
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