03-31-15 01:32 PM
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  1. capcom303's Avatar
    Any idea if we will get the delete on handheld only back? If we get the forever option and no delete on handheld only my phone is going to get filled up. Only a few emails do I put in folders so the rest stay in the inbox. Now there are messages I want to keep on the phone and a lot only in the inbox so if we can't delete in hand held only I'm going to have thousands of emails I don't want on my phone as time goes on. I use my 9900 on wifi to keep my fast emails with yahoo and also the fact that with the way the Z does emails I have 8 accounts on the 9900 and only put 2 on the Z. Would love to not carry two phones around
    mapperav likes this.
    04-29-13 08:48 AM
  2. Omnitech's Avatar
    Any idea if we will get the delete on handheld only back?

    I have seen no indication on that one way or the other. But bear in mind that with a syncing email connection paradigm, deleting something on one device and not others pretty much flies in the face of what that architecture is designed to do: SYNC. When you start manually overriding what appears on which device, the whole model goes out the window and becomes confusing.

    With a syncing email paradigm, you should be filing messages, not deleting them just on one device. What happens if you have 3 endpoints? How do you keep clear about what messages are where?



    If we get the forever option and no delete on handheld only my phone is going to get filled up. Only a few emails do I put in folders so the rest stay in the inbox.

    A poor email management practice, especially if you're using a syncing email protocol, since going over a certain number of messages in a single folder in a syncing email system causes technical problems. Most email efficiency experts recommend keeping the inbox as clean as possible anyway.
    mapperav likes this.
    04-29-13 01:12 PM
  3. capcom303's Avatar
    I understand it's in the way this works now but this worked find on any older blackberry. I use my phone and sometime the account on the laptop. I don't need everthing synced up between 3 or 4 devices or what ever. I don't use folders an never have. There are emails I get and want to keep on my phone until I decide I don't need them, some that I don't need anywhere ever again, and then some I want to keep forever but not on my phone. It's just hard to understand why we can't have a setting that only deletes the email off the phone. That is part of why I still use my 9900. I have a Z10 with a ton of emails I want to keep but just not on the phone but since if I delete them they are gone I'm stuck with a ton. So when I want to find an email from say a week or two ago I use the 9900 which only has the ones I want to keep. Hope that makes since
    JeepBB and mapperav like this.
    04-29-13 04:07 PM
  4. johnnyuk's Avatar
    Like clockwork around here, people gripe gripe gripe for months that some feature is missing, and then when Blackberry ultimately gives them that feature, they find something else about it that they don't like, rather than show a little appreciation.

    Can't win around here .

    I wasn't griping for the Forever option, but to develop it and not bother with any of the intermediate settings that the previous OS had for years seems stupid to me.

    Sometimes I wonder if anyone developing BB10 ever used BBOS.

    Posted via CB10
    JeepBB likes this.
    04-30-13 08:34 AM
  5. Rooster99's Avatar
    ... With a syncing email paradigm, you should be filing messages, not deleting them just on one device. ...
    I had thought that the filing was also synced, so if you move them into a specific folder on your phone they would be moved to that folder on all other devices. Or have I misunderstood your post?

    - R.
    04-30-13 01:02 PM
  6. Rooster99's Avatar
    I understand it's in the way this works now but this worked find on any older blackberry. I use my phone and sometime the account on the laptop. I don't need everthing synced up between 3 or 4 devices or what ever. I don't use folders an never have. There are emails I get and want to keep on my phone until I decide I don't need them, some that I don't need anywhere ever again, and then some I want to keep forever but not on my phone. It's just hard to understand why we can't have a setting that only deletes the email off the phone. That is part of why I still use my 9900. I have a Z10 with a ton of emails I want to keep but just not on the phone but since if I delete them they are gone I'm stuck with a ton. So when I want to find an email from say a week or two ago I use the 9900 which only has the ones I want to keep. Hope that makes since
    Aha - you are a piler! (as am I), As Forbes points out, with search tech being what it is now, there is some argument for th effectiveness of filing vs piling :

    Are You A Filer Or Piler? - Forbes

    Try googling "filer vs piler" - lots of entries.

    - R.
    04-30-13 01:05 PM
  7. Omnitech's Avatar
    Aha - you are a piler! (as am I), As Forbes points out, with search tech being what it is now, there is some argument for th effectiveness of filing vs piling :

    Try googling "filer vs piler" - lots of entries.

    Which was pretty much the impetus behind the design of Gmail, as far as I can tell. (Which also happens to dovetail with Google's business-model of collecting all your communications and data-mining them for advertising targeting purposes)

    But unfortunately, the technology for making that practical via a mobile device is not really there yet, IMHO. Because the syncing paradigm assumes that anything accessible is typically visible without searching for it. Remote search is the obvious answer to that but there needs to be better and more consistent support for that on the server and client side, as well as remote mail protocols specifically designed for "pilers" before that is universally feasible.
    04-30-13 02:31 PM
  8. Rooster99's Avatar
    ... Because the syncing paradigm assumes that anything accessible is typically visible without searching for it. ...
    Sorry, I don't follow.

    - R.
    04-30-13 03:29 PM
  9. Omnitech's Avatar
    Sorry, I don't follow.

    Typically a syncing protocol like EAS or IMAP will try to replicate the entire contents of a folder from the server datastore to the client, assuming the client has selected to synchronize that folder.

    An email paradigm that relies on searching to find items rather than a hierarchical folder tree doesn't have any need to see all the messages in a folder, because each time the user wants to find something s/he is going to search for it anyway.

    But the syncing protocols in common usage today don't operate that way. They assume if a user wants the ability to find messages in a particular folder, that the entire contents of that folder will be "synced" to the client. That can entail huge amounts of overhead, which is unnecessary in a "search/piler" paradigm since every retrieval of a message will theoretically be preceeded by a search anyway, there is no need for "browsing of folders".
    04-30-13 06:58 PM
  10. johnnyuk's Avatar
    I have seen no indication on that one way or the other. But bear in mind that with a syncing email connection paradigm, deleting something on one device and not others pretty much flies in the face of what that architecture is designed to do: SYNC.
    How about a 'Hide on Handheld' instead of 'Delete on Handheld'? That way the email is still there as far as Syncing is concerned, just the Hub hides it from view.

    'View Hidden Emails', 'Unhide All Emails' and 'Delete All Hidden Emails' would be necessary for when the time comes to do some housekeeping.



    Posted via CB10
    04-30-13 10:47 PM
  11. Omnitech's Avatar
    How about a 'Hide on Handheld' instead of 'Delete on Handheld'? That way the email is still there as far as Syncing is concerned, just the Hub hides it from view.

    'View Hidden Emails', 'Unhide All Emails' and 'Delete All Hidden Emails' would be necessary for when the time comes to do some housekeeping.

    I've proposed pretty much exactly that in discussions here before. But I ultimately came to the conclusion that it's better to just file a message in a synced folder than "hide" it. For example, what happens when a "hidden" message on device 2, is deleted on device 3? If it's deleted, then "hide" doesn't do what you think it does when you make that choice on device 2, which leads to confusion/chaos. If it's NOT deleted, then in actuality you're not actually hiding it, you're saving it, which brings us back to the beginning again.
    04-30-13 11:06 PM
  12. Casper TFG's Avatar
    I had emails going back to 2007 on my new Q10 (UK) but just disabled the 'forever' option as true sync wasn't happening (folders / new mails - compared to my Mac which was more up to date - the BB was 8 hours out of date)

    it could be that the forever sync might take more than the 24 hours I have had the phone.... (and its only be switched on for about 12 hours)

    But I am trying again with the 30 days sync - if sync (dropping emails into folders and matching my Mac inbox) is not working in a few hours

    I will be back to my email provider tech guys...

    Will report back - hit me up with any (non snide) tips

    Thanks
    05-01-13 05:04 AM
  13. membrane chemist's Avatar
    I had emails going back to 2007 on my new Q10 (UK) but just disabled the 'forever' option as true sync wasn't happening (folders / new mails - compared to my Mac which was more up to date - the BB was 8 hours out of date)

    it could be that the forever sync might take more than the 24 hours I have had the phone.... (and its only be switched on for about 12 hours)

    But I am trying again with the 30 days sync - if sync (dropping emails into folders and matching my Mac inbox) is not working in a few hours

    I will be back to my email provider tech guys...

    Will report back - hit me up with any (non snide) tips

    Thanks
    No tips but a request for clarification.

    -You have an EAS email account with 6 years of mail.
    -Enabling "forever" sync causes new email receipt to be delayed for approximately 8 hours on the Q10 compared to its receipt on your Mac.

    Does that describe your experience so far? I am not concerned with the folder sync delay as I am a piler, not a filer.
    05-01-13 11:40 AM
  14. johnnyuk's Avatar
    What happens when a "hidden" message on device 2, is deleted on device 3?
    What should happen is it gets deleted on device 3, on device 2 (even though the user might not notice) and on the mail server.

    If it's deleted, then "hide" doesn't do what you think it does when you make that choice on device 2, which leads to confusion/chaos.
    Good point! I had insomnia when I made that post so wasn't thinking clearly. What the function should of course be called is "Delete on Handheld" just as it was in legacy BBOS. Emails deleted that way would just be hidden from view on that device. There shouldn't be a way to view the hidden emails, just as there wasn't in BBOS because as far as the user is concerned they should no longer be on the device.

    I do wonder if that's how "Delete on Handheld" actually worked in BBOS. It would explain why seven to ten years ago the fledgling BlackBerry users on my BES would so frequently fill the admittedly limited storage space on their BlackBerry phones. They were all cautious about trusting BlackBerry phones with their precious hoards of emails and preferred to keep 'master' copies of all emails in their mailboxes so only ever Deleted on Handheld! Thinking about it I'm sure it was more efficient than that and really did mark the storage space on the phone as reusable for new messages and just instructed the BES to ignore that delete and to not replicate it on the mail sever.

    I weened them off the email hoarding culture eventually, just as well as BlackBerry forced the issue with the move to Active Sync, if you delete on a BlackBerry now you better be sure you meant it!



    Posted via CB10
    mapperav likes this.
    05-01-13 02:58 PM
  15. Jonny-R's Avatar
    I'd like to use the 'forever' option on my university account which I am connecting to via an exchange server. I have about 2,500 e-mails and my Q10 starts acting up horribly after a while of trying to pull all the e-mails in. I've switched it back to 30 days, and I suppose I can save any e-mails I need in the remember app. However could it be that I'm not giving the phone enough time to sort itself out? It starts locking up in the hub when it has about 2,000 mails - then says it has disconnected from the server?

    Thanks for any help
    05-02-13 07:51 PM
  16. bubbbab's Avatar
    Like clockwork around here, people gripe gripe gripe for months that some feature is missing, and then when Blackberry ultimately gives them that feature, they find something else about it that they don't like, rather than show a little appreciation.

    Can't win around here.

    (As far as I'm concerned - and probably this is why the other devices do it this way - MOST people should have that setting set to 30 days or less, to make the performance optimal. Instead of trying to manage your mailbox via silly mechanisms like fine-grained sync periods that inevitably you will regret when something you really want/need exceeds that timeout by 1 day, people really should be managing it the right way, by not leaving all their messages in one gargantuan inbox, and actually FILE things.)
    Firstly, BlackBerry hasn't given it back yet. Secondly I hardly think that any one person is qualified to determine the email needs Of others.

    Steve, Posted via CB10
    05-02-13 08:26 PM
  17. johnnyuk's Avatar
    My guess is it's because BlackBerry are trying to retrofit 'Forever' in to a Hub that shortsighted wasn't designed for anything more than 30 days. Astonishing for a company whose previous generation of phones could handle synchronising several options for numbers of days between 30 days and Forever.

    Why do BlackBerry think that just being as bad at something as your competitors iOS, Android and Windows Phone is good enough as long as it means you can stop bothering to offer something better.

    Posted via CB10
    05-02-13 08:27 PM
  18. Omnitech's Avatar
    I'd like to use the 'forever' option on my university account which I am connecting to via an exchange server. I have about 2,500 e-mails and my Q10 starts acting up horribly after a while of trying to pull all the e-mails in. I've switched it back to 30 days, and I suppose I can save any e-mails I need in the remember app. However could it be that I'm not giving the phone enough time to sort itself out? It starts locking up in the hub when it has about 2,000 mails - then says it has disconnected from the server?

    Thanks for any help

    There are all sorts of possible reasons for something like that.

    I've seen Q10 owners talk about syncing mailboxes going back to 2008, some talk about syncing mailboxes containing "tens of thousands of messages".

    One possible reason is that most Exchange ActiveSync servers have a variety of fine-grained controls over performance settings and the ability to throttle devices depending on how many resources they are consuming at any given time.

    For example, trying to synchronize a very large mailbox with a setting that doesn't put a chronological limit on the synchronized data set is a perfect example of a very high resource utilization process. It's possible that in the middle of such an attempted sync, the server sees very high resource consumption by that device and throttles and/or disconnects it as a result.

    One possibility of many.
    05-03-13 06:03 AM
  19. membrane chemist's Avatar
    I'd like to use the 'forever' option on my university account which I am connecting to via an exchange server. I have about 2,500 e-mails and my Q10 starts acting up horribly after a while of trying to pull all the e-mails in. I've switched it back to 30 days, and I suppose I can save any e-mails I need in the remember app. However could it be that I'm not giving the phone enough time to sort itself out? It starts locking up in the hub when it has about 2,000 mails - then says it has disconnected from the server?

    Thanks for any help
    Sorry to hear about your problems with the Q10 email.

    1. Did you access your university account with a previous phone?
    2. If so, what time frame or number of messages did you sync at with your university account?
    3. If so, what phone OS did you previously use?
    05-03-13 10:57 AM
  20. Jonny-R's Avatar
    Thanks for the replies. I've currently got the Q10 on 30 day setting, I can use the remote search tool but it only seems to add about another 30 days to the scope of what I can retrieve?

    Previously I had a Bold 9780 which could not connect to my university email, I had to forward my mail to an alternative account. So this is still a nice upgrade haha. My Q10 has this exchange active sync and 3 IMAP e-mails working nicely on it.

    Thanks for the replies, appreciated, as I don't know much about the serve side.
    05-03-13 11:22 AM
  21. membrane chemist's Avatar
    Thanks for the replies. I've currently got the Q10 on 30 day setting, I can use the remote search tool but it only seems to add about another 30 days to the scope of what I can retrieve?

    Previously I had a Bold 9780 which could not connect to my university email, I had to forward my mail to an alternative account. So this is still a nice upgrade haha. My Q10 has this exchange active sync and 3 IMAP e-mails working nicely on it.

    Thanks for the replies, appreciated, as I don't know much about the serve side.
    Thanks for your reply. I was hoping for a before / after on your uni email to see if that could help isolate your 'forever' email issue.

    I have favour to ask. I am looking for information on the length of time IMAP accounts can be set to retrieve email. 90 days on IMAP was promised on BB10 10.1.

    Q:
    Is 90 days an option for your IMAP accounts?
    05-03-13 11:41 AM
  22. Omnitech's Avatar
    Thanks for the replies. I've currently got the Q10 on 30 day setting, I can use the remote search tool but it only seems to add about another 30 days to the scope of what I can retrieve?
    I've seen one other recent account of that behavior on BB10.0.x.x, from an email administrator that claims Blackberry has noted it (the 60-day limitation) as a bug. Whereas I've seen various other 10.0.x.x users claim they can search old messages going back years.
    05-03-13 11:51 AM
  23. Jonny-R's Avatar
    I've seen one other recent account of that behavior on BB10.0.x.x, from an email administrator that claims Blackberry has noted it (the 60-day limitation) as a bug. Whereas I've seen various other 10.0.x.x users claim they can search old messages going back years.
    The Q10 is running 10.1 - but this is interesting. I hope it becomes an option that the entire mailbox can be searched through. That would be really ideal for me.
    05-03-13 02:04 PM
  24. Jonny-R's Avatar
    Thanks for your reply. I was hoping for a before / after on your uni email to see if that could help isolate your 'forever' email issue.

    I have favour to ask. I am looking for information on the length of time IMAP accounts can be set to retrieve email. 90 days on IMAP was promised on BB10 10.1.

    Q:
    Is 90 days an option for your IMAP accounts?
    On my Q10 (can find OS version if helpful) IMAP has a maximal initial retrieval period as 30 days still.
    05-03-13 02:10 PM
  25. Omnitech's Avatar
    On my Q10 (can find OS version if helpful) IMAP has a maximal initial retrieval period as 30 days still.
    Always interesting to me how they worded that for IMAP accounts. It's not technically saying that it will not sync messages older than 30 days, just that it will not initially retrieve any more than 30 day old messages. (Though in practice according to my experience with 10.0.x.x, it does seem to limit the set of visible messages to ~30 day history)
    05-03-13 05:32 PM
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